Christina, <BR>I am so sorry, I have been lucky, and have never been robbed, someone was in our home last time we travelled, they didn't take anything, but the knowledge someone 'uninvited' had been in the house....that, was bad in itself. But you, having to move into another house, that is terrible, that you have to do that! I really, feel bad for you. And, I know what you mean, sometimes it does help to get it out, actually, I think, it Always, helps. <BR>Regards, <BR>Melva

People should be aware. Gas?

Topping for Pauline

I have heard a lot of stories about houses being robbed when they are empty, but not about this horrible type of robbery when people are there. Nancy and Christina - these must have been horrible experiences for you. <BR> <BR>I met an American woman who owns a second home in Tuscany. She furnished it with antiques and one winter someone broke in a removed all the expensive pieces. They even emptied them first, so she came in the spring to find her blankets piled where the furniture that held them used to sit! I have also heard about empty homes being totally stripped - even plumbing fixtures. But I have not before heard about this more violent crime. I am going to write to a few vacation rental agencies and see if there have been problems reported lately. <BR> <BR>Pauline <BR>www.slowtrav.com <BR>Personal web site about vacation rentals in Italy

Again, I have to ask - does anyone know of cases where gas was actually used? I would imagine that ether would be diffcult to administer undetected, and easy to prove later that it was used. Bottled gas (what would it be?) would be even harder. I recall that John Wayne Gacey used chloroform on one victim in Chicago who survived, with significant liver damage. Unlike the movies, gas is not something simple and foolproof to use, or you would hear a lot more about it (or a lot more deaths from botched attempts). That's why anethesistists(?) get the big dollars. <BR>Note the poster at the top was in a different room during the robbery - The theives could just have been quiet. I am curious about the incident in Amsterdam - seems more likely to have something invlved. I searched Rick Steves and found only a mention of someone meeting "new friends" who slipped some drugs into refreshments. <BR>Does anyone have any actaul stories that gas is used, and if so what was it?

ciao maurice <BR> <BR>well, i really don't know which kind of gas they have used, or still use. there are several gases for the normal anesthesia and normally the ones from the profi sector they can organize all this things without any problem. last year friends of us who live in firenze where visited by theafs during the night. they left the shutters closed and the windows open and went to bed. during the night someone spraied some anesthesia gas into their bedroom. they broked with heavy material the shutters and came into the house to take things away. the next morning both where very tired and a bit "knocked out" the noticed what happend and they called the carabinieri. not a single person form the carabinieri mentioned to test what kind of gas it could be. they told, it's a common thing in these days, e basta. sai, è facile qui in italia. non sono gli stati uniti. <BR> <BR>buona serata <BR> <BR>christina

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Dear Christina, I'm so sorry for your experience! My husband has cousins who live in Lucca, Viareggio etc. in Tuscany and we have been in Florence many times. His one cousin was in the government in Tuscany until recently. But, 30 years ago we were robbed in our home in Chicago and I know the feeling of being "invaded". I actually stripped the beds, washed all the floors down and threw out all the flour, sugar etc in the kitchen. A burglar had been in my bedroom taking all the family jewelry (which didn't mean much of value, just sentimental value!)I felt I had to throw out all the bedding because he might have sat on it!! Not logical, of course, but that's the emotional feeling you have after this attack. About 5 years later, my parents who lived in an affluent suburb of Pittsburgh, Pa (of all places) were victims of the anesthesia type burglaries. It's really scary, but what can we, the victims, do to prevent it? In LA we lived in the A/C, never opening the windows at night and keeping the alarm on all the time when we weren't at home. Now, I have my dogs and the alarm, but it would be good to smell the fresh air. Christina, don't become too crazy about this--there are more good people in this world than bad. Good luck.

Two years ago on a student tour, we were staying at a hotel outside Florence (in those big industrial parks--cheaper than in town for the tour company) which had no hotel safe (inconceivable for a hotel receiving tour groups). We returned to our room late after having taken the kids to a disco (I know, but they enjoyed it). It was hot, so we opened the window even though we were on the floor above ground floor--it looked high enough. <BR> <BR>Neither of us was a heavy sleeper, but during the night, someone entered the room, went through my husband's bag and stole all his cash (not much) and our travelers checks (again easily replaced) and his camera. For some odd reason, I had put my purse between our two beds (there was a slight crack). He had put the pouch with all our plane tickets and the kids' passports under his bed, and the thieves didn't find them. I'm sure that they used gas (which I thought was an urban legend) because we were out cold and they must have used a ladder, which would have been very evident from the outside (my husband always blocked the door with a chair). The worst part was knowing that someone was roaming around our room going through our things while we were sleeping! <BR> <BR>And, to boot, the hotel manager just shrugged his shoulders, not even a word of commiseration or concern for his other guests. Incredible! Made me wonder if management wasn't involved.

the most common 'gas' used for these illegal purposes is chloroform. its one of the oldest anaesthetics known. it comes as a liquid but it evoporates very rapidly into its gaseous phase. 2-3 breaths will render you unconscious. usually put on a rag and held nesr a person who is sleeping- old dtrick on the rome florence train run. in as enclosed area it could be placed as a liquid but fire and explosion is always a posssibility. not all that hard to obtain or if you are a half assed chemist you can synthesize it yourself

Christina -- It has been a while since I have been on and feel awful about your experience. <BR> <BR>I think the key here is to alert people. Italy will crackdown if tourist $ start to slowdown - don't you all think? Call the State Department and Embassies and voice your concerns!

Yeah, lets tell everybody that it can be extremely dangerous to travel to Italy or Spain, getting gassed while sleeping is not just being pickpocketed... That is not they way I would like to end up my travels...

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If someone tried to administer chloroform to you while you were asleep you would wake up instantly...and it takes more than a couple of breaths to knock you out. Plus, if it was applied to your face, you'd have some pretty nasty burns to contend with. You'd also be very aware of having been knocked out with the stuff, it has some very nasty after effects.

Being gassed while asleep is horrifying, and I have no idea which gases are actually used, <BR>but a couple of posts on chloroform contain factual errors which might cause more alarm than necessary - <BR>chloroform is NOT inflammable (it's a component of certain fire extinguishers) and so there is no risk of explosion or fire. Not like ether (diethyl ether) which has also been used as an anaesthetic, and is extremely inflammable. <BR> <BR>Also, liquid chloroform does not cause burns - it is NOT advisable to get it on the skin as it is thought to be carcinogenic and can penetrate the skin, but it does not actually burn the skin.

I don't have reservations but had selected villa Gaidello as a top choice for stopping on our way Milan to Florence and now I am spooked. Looking for recent information on Villa Gaidello. Were the people responsive. Is there really no one on the property at night? Would love any perspective ?

I echo the comments of those who say to exercise caution. Our family ( two adults and two young boys 7 and 10) was robbed as we slept in an agriturismo outside Florence. The thieves came in a window on a hot night. They stole our video camera and took my husband's shorts from the bedside chair. His wallet was on the bedside table but fortunately they missed it. We felt very fortunate that we sustained minimal losses. I hate to think what coulsd have happened if one of our children had awakened that night. We had been told to keep our valuables away from open windows (which we did). We were not told by the agriturismo that they had had a similar break in the week before. I suppose it can happen anywhere, but I think it is incumbent on agriturismos to be up front about the risks and history of thefts at the property. Ours was not. If in doubt, ask!

Whoa! Now I am totally thinking agriturisimo as an option. I will be travelling with grandparents and a 1 year old and will be already vulnerable enought. Is this just the same as happen in hotels in cities I just haven't heard about or is it something about these types of lodgings? Are proprietors taking precautions? Lighting, on-site supervision etc? Or is this just the price you pay? I am making decisions for our whole family on itinerary and I am feeling a pressure to make a choice that will provide a good experience and NOW the safety aspect is really concerning. Help me think it through???<BR><BR>Margaret

What you can do on a night train is take a sleeper or couchette compartment. These has conductors on duty, who lock the outer doors, and have compartments with locks and chains that only the passengers can open.<BR><BR>I?m not sure that gassing is a big problem. The Canadian and US consular advice mentions poisoned food or drink, but not gas, while the British and French advice mentions neither, but does say there are thieves on night trains. <BR><BR>Ben Haines, London<BR>

HEI relax everyone, the gassing on trains does no longer happen, the last report was more than 10 years ago. Eurostar trains are very safe. The crime rate in Italy is very low. Come on,I find it incredible that people from the USA which has the highest crime rate in the world are scared of travelling in Italy!!!