ozgirl

Hello fellow Fodorites, having been absent from the Europe board for a while I am back and seeking advice please. We are in the early stages of planning our next trip (june 08) to France and will be spending a week in Villefranche probably and then have approximately a week to travel to Normandy by car, where we will also spend a week. Any suggestions please as to possible routes and places to divide our time en route. There is a lot of France between Villefranche and Normandy! Loire Valley perhaps? Interested in small villages and their people, beautiful scenery, autoroutes if we have to cover large amounts kms but love "off the beaten track."
I am sure this will be the first of many posts, thank you in advance.

StuDudley

We did kinda the same thing a couple of years ago - heading to Alsace from Provence. We made it mostly an Alps excursion in mid June & did it without making hotel reservations in advance. We did, however, make sure we had a hotel secured by 3pm each day.

Here is what I would do.

Head north from Nice on the N202, and follow it as it heads west to Touet sur Var (cute village - visit), and on to Entraveaux - a real eye-popper. Get out & visit. For a fantastic view of this village with the Vauban structure on top, turn left (away from the bridge into Entraveaux) in to a strip-mall like complex. Immediately to your right is a restaurant & on the edge of the restaurant is a road that heads uphill. Follow this road & keep an eye on the village for some fantastic views. After Entraveaux, continue a little east and take the D902 north through the breathtaking Gorges de Daluis. This and its neighbor to the east (Gorges du Cians) are steep gorges with dark brick-colored slate. You'll want to get out & take pictures. Lots of lovely small non-touristy village in that area – Rigaud is just one. If this scenery interests you, you can do a circular loop through both gorges, returning back at Touet. Cians is “rated” higher in the Michelin Guide – but both are fantastic. If you want to stay overnight in this area, Annot would be a good place to do that & is also a very cute village. We stayed and dined at the inexpensive L’Avenue several years ago, and dined there again this year. If one gorge drive-through is enough for you and you want to pick up the pace a little, once you exit the Gorges de Daluis, continue north on the D2202 & over the scenic Col de la Cayolle. If you stayed in Annot overnight, still drive over the Col – even though you have already driven through the Gorge – it looks different at different times of the day.

Once over the Col de la Cayolle, continue on through the Gorges de Bachelard to Barcelonnette. This is an interesting town to explore – it has a Mexican influence. Read about it in the Michelin Green Guide. It might be a good place to stay overnight of you did the one-pass through the lower gorges & did not stay in Annot.

After Barcelonnette, head west on the D900 to Serre-Poncon lake then north on the D954 to Embrun. This is another real cute town worth exploring. We stayed overnight at the Mairie hotel/restaurant.

After Enbrum, head north on the D994, past Mont Dauphine (an interesting Vauban fort), past Guillestre, and take the D902 through the Combe du Queyras. Contine past Chateau-Queyras and on to St Veran – considered to be the highest village in Europe – so the Michelin Guide claims. This is also an interesting village to explore.

After St Veran, retrace your route back past Chateau Queyras and take the D902 north over the Col d’Izoard. You’re getting into the serious Alps now, and if you are a Tour de France fan you’ll recognize some of the names of the Cols. Continue on the D902 to Briancon. This is perhaps the cutest village in the Alps. Stop for a visit. See the Michelin Guide too find how to access the old section of town. We stayed here & dined at the very nice le Peche Gourmand.

After Briancon, head northwest on the N91 over the Col du Lautaret, then north on the D902 over the very famous Col de Galibier. We stood at the Col and wondered how any bicyclist could possibly make it over this route. It’s spectacularly scenic and quite steep for someone on a bike.

Continue over the Galibier on the D902 (the D902 may change road numbers when it leaves the Hautes-Alps department & enters the Savoie). When the D902 hits the much larger N6, take the N6 east and then it turns north. Look up massif de la VANOISE in the Michelin GG. Follow the D902 to Bonneval sur Arc. See BONNEVAL in GG. Explore the Old Village. Look up route de l’ISERAN in the GG. Follow the D902 as described in the GG (in reverse).

On to Mt Blanc:

At the end of the D902 near Bourg St Maurice, head northeast on the N90 over the Col de Pit St Bernard (see GG under BOURG ST MAURICE) and into Italy. Continue to Courmayeur and through the Mont Blanc tunnel back to France & to Chamonix – which is the base village for Mont Blanc.

See viamichelin for places to stay in Chamonix. We splurged and stayed at some place I don’t remember. There are lots of hotels to choose from, and any one within walking distance of the center of town & the lift up Mt Blanc would be fine. We stayed in Chamonix on the 4th night after leaving Provence. If you don’t linger in the lower gorges too long and get an early start from Villefranche, you could make it here on the 3rd night.

See CHAMONIX MONT BLANC in the Green Guide.
Take the cable car up to the first platform ( Plan de Aiguille), and on to the second platform (Aiguille du Midi) It’s a little pricy – but it was the highlight of our trip through the Alps. Also consider the gondola to le Brevent (we did not do this ride). If the weather is foul, don’t even go to the Mt Blanc area and skip this Chamonix/Mt Blanc section of the Alps (Chamonix is not that interesting by itself)

After Mt Blanc, head west through Megave and when the D212 hits the D909, take it north through the Col des Aravis through la Clsaz, then the D909 to Annecy. See massif des ARAVIS in the Green Guide.

Stay somewhere on Lake Annecy – possibly 2 nights. The city of Annecy is very popular. The city is quite large and ugly in some spots, but the Old Town which is right on the lake is very picturesque & interesting. You really won’t have a need to drive through or see the non-pretty areas of Annecy. You could stay in Old Town, or somewhere else on the lake that is not in a large city. We’ve stayed in Talloires and Annecy.

See the Green Guide for drives around the area.

After Annecy, take the freeway to Macon in Burgundy/Beaujolais, and then north to Beaune & Dijon. You will make it to this area either on the 4th or 5th night. Either stay in Beaune, or if you want to experience my second favorite city in France, stay in Dijon – either 1 or 2 nights – depending on how much time you have before you head to Normandy. Visit Ch. Tanlay, Vezelay, Beaune, or anything else in this region that interests you.

The route through the Alps that I have laid-out is almost exactly the same route we took. We left our Gite on Saturday at 10am, and checked in to our next Gite in Alsace at 4pm. After Annecy (we only stayed 1 night – been there before) we stayed 1 night in the Jura region near Poligny, and 1 night in Besancon – where I needed a little emergency surgery (which consumed most of 1 day). We almost never drive later than 3-4pm, so I think this pace is quite do-able. Driving through the Alps from Provence to Briancon took less time than I had expected. Don’t spend too much time in the little villages – the Alps are the real “star” of this excursion.

Stu Dudley

ozgirl

Many thanks Stu for your very extensive comments.
We did travel a route very similiar to this 18 months ago (wish I had had your detail then!) so was thinking more of a western route to Normandy this time.

mpprh

Here is an interesting route worth researching :

Arles
A9 through Languedoc (Arles, Nimes, Montpellier, Narbonne, Perpignan + side trips)
Figueres
Follow Olot, Tremp, Jaca, Pamplona, San Sebastian through Spain
Then head for France and follow the A8, N10, Bordeaux, A10, etc North

A long drive, but worthwhile.

A short cut is to take the A61 turn from the A9 in Languedoc and follow via Toulouse to Bordeaux, then North.

Problem is, there is so much of interest on both routes you will have to be disciplined to do it in a week.

Bonne chance


Peter

ozgirl

Thank you Peter. This is interesting because I had been thinking I would love to include Spain on this trip (have never been there.) Would this be 'doable' do you think and what is this region of Spain like?

StuDudley

I wish you had indicated the regions you have already visited - it would have saved me some time & effort in putting my suggestion together.

If I had known you had already explored the Alps area, I would have put together a similar itinerary for the Languedoc, beautiful Auvergne/Puy du Dome region, and Beaujolais/Burgundy or Bourges/Loire.

Stu Dudley

ozgirl

My apologies Stu, I must admit I didn't think anyone would suggest a route to Normandy via the Alps so I didn't mention that we had been there. I do always appreciate your comments.

hopingtotravel

Or, alternatively, over to Carcassone, then north through the Dordogne, coming out somewhere in the Loire, then west to Normandy.

annhig

hi, ozgirl,

you do know you can do this on the train, don't you?

TGV Nice to Paris, TGV to Rennes.

It'll take all day mind, but it'll save all that driving.

regards, ann

ozgirl

Thanks Ann, what can I say - we are from Australia, we are used to driving long distances! We have done so previously in France and really enjoyed the experience and in this case we will have the time to spare.

ozgirl

Can anyone else offer an opinion on the Spanish option or other thoughts please?

hetismij

I would second Stu on the Auvergne/Puy de dome route. Absolutley lovely area, extinct volcanoes, tiny villages, red cows, wild flowers, beautiful.

StuDudley

Too much driving on non-scenic freeways till you get to the Spanish Border south of Perpignan. We spent 2 weeks on the French side a few years ago. Same as you exit the spanish border near Biarritz - Pays basque is prettybut it's a bit inland and it's not scenic on the reeway as you go north. Spent 2 weeks in the Frence Pays Basque also.

I recently posted a suggested itinerary (actually 2 itineraries for 2 different people) for someone else on Provence through the Languedoc to the Dordogne. Quite a while back, I posted another on North through the Auvergne/Puy du Dome. You do the work this time & try to find them.
Stu Dudley

Michael

Wander around the Auvergne and the Dordogne on your way to Normandy.

ozgirl

Thank you for all comments. Stu Dudley, I feel suitably chastised and no, I am not scared of research.

StuDudley

You might have difficulty finding my Auvergne/Puy du Dome post. I did it a year or so ago. Fortunately, I wrote it in Word first, and saved it. There is also a short suggestion for the north-of-Burgundy region.

Here it is again:

Here are some thoughts on the Puy de Dome.

In July ’06, we rented a Gite near Olby & spent two weeks exploring the area. In this region, the natural beauty is the main attraction. Compared to the villages & cities you’ve already visited in the Dordogne & Languedoc, the ones in the Puy de Dome are really not that interesting. Like I mentioned earlier, I would skip Cleremont-Ferrand entirely. Only old Montferrand was mildly worthwhile – but still nothing like Bordeaux, Perigueux, Sarlat, Toulouse, Albi, Pezanes, Bourges, or Troyes. When we were there, we visited about 15 chateaux, but unfortunately very few are open in May. I glanced at my “Route Historique des Chateaux d’Auvergene” brochure, and I found very few – if any - open in May. Here is their web site if you want to search for the few open
http://www.route-chateaux-auvergne.o...te_anglais.htm


The Michelin Green Guide has many driving itineraries. Here are the sections we enjoyed the most
1. The D216/D27/D983 from the N89/E70/D941 intersection, past Orcival, all the way to le Mont Dore
2. The D983 from the above mentioned D216 to the N89.
3. The D922 from Tauves to Lagueuille
4. The small D640 from the D996, to the D150 to St Nectaire. This affords wonderful views of both St Nectaire & the distant ruins of Murol chateau.
5. The D36 from Besse en Chandesse to le Mont Dore.

Here are some of our favorite villages
1 Lavaudieu
2 Besse en Chandesse – probably the most interesting of the villages
3 Montpeyroux – this is an interesting village to explore. It’s right next to the freeway with a great view of it from the freeway
4 Brioude – interesting church also.
5 Blessle
6 Champeix
7 Billom – take the Michelin walk. Excellent Monday morning market. Nice store called Maison de Campagne on Rue Carnot

Some of our favorite sites
1 the Church at Orcival
2 Murol – it’s in ruins, but quite interesting.

The views from the top of the Puy de Dome are fantastic. We had dinner at the restaurant on top one evening, and watched a thunderstorm pass. If you get a chance, have dinner up at the top of the Puy. I’m a big foodie, and I expected the restaurant to be a little touristy – but it wasn’t. In fact, it was one of our 4 best meals in the region.

The other 3 best meals were l’Ours des Roches in Courteix near Pontgibaud, Radio in Chamaliers, & La Belle Meuniere in Royat.

Here are some drives/sites/villages we did not find as interesting as the Michelin Green Guide suggests
1. Gorges d’Aveze – especially if you visit the Gorges du Tarn.
2. The countryside east of the A75 freeway
3. Col de Ceyssat (too many tree trunks)
4. The Funiculaire du Capucin ride from Mt Dore. It was OK, but a little too time consuming


If I were to stay in one town, I would choose Besse en Chandesse. There are several Michelin listed hotels in town. Another option would be Mont Dore, but it’s a thermal/spa town and geared to that crowd. It’s somewhat interesting to visit, but I would not want to stay there. It seemed a little too “fake” to me. La Bourboule would be another choice, but it looked a little tattered & worn. Perhaps it was a more elegant town 100 years ago.

Here’s a nice itinerary to get to the Puy de Dome from le Puy en Velay.

Head northwest on the N102. Just past a large loop in the road, turn right on the D513 to Chavaniac Lafayette. The chateau there is the birthplace of the Marquis de La Fayette – who helped us in our war of independence. If you have time and the inclination, visit the chateau and the exhibits about the Marquis. It’s a self guided tour, and one of the few that’s open in May. It closes for lunch. I’m pretty sure they have a handout in English. After the chateau, head northwest on the small D21, through Paulhaguet, then on the D56 to Lavaudieu. Get out and explore this village – there’s a picture of it in the Michelin Guide. Continue on the D203/D20 to Brioude. This is kind of a perched town. You will first encounter a large parking lot. Park there & take the elevator up into town. We found the church there to be very interesting and a walk through town worthwhile also. See the Michelin Guide for suggested sites to visit in town.

After Brioude, gage the time, and perhaps visit Blesle if you have time & are not “villaged-out”. I would perhaps skip Blesle, and from Brioude, take the D5888 west and get on the freeway towards Cleremont Ferrand. Almost immediately, get off at exit # 17 and drive through St Germain-Lembron, head north a bit and turn left (west) on the small D125 to Chalus (note the chateau to your right), Villeneuve-Lembron (chateau not open in May), and then to Mareugheol, which is an interesting village. After Mareughol, head southwest on the D717, and then catch the D48 west and then the D32 northeast towards Vodable, then the D124/D23 north. At the larger D26 road at Chidrac, head west Besse en Chandesse – noting the interesting St Floret along the way. Most of the route I just described from St Germain to the D26 can be found in the Michelin Green Guide under “Issoire” It’s probably easier to follow the Green Guide’s description than mine.

For the next day explore the Puy de Dome, following the roads I mentioned above and visiting any sites that interest you. Just driving aimlessly in this region is rewarding.

When it’s time to leave the Puy de Dome for Bourges, get on the A75 freeway, but get off at exit #7 to visit Montpeyroux. My guess is that this charming village is inhabited by wealthy people working in Cleremont Ferrand, since freeway access is so easy. Wander around, and climb up the tower for some great views over the village & down into the back yards & gardens of the houses.

You will need map # 326 to explore the Puy de Dome. If you get an older map, it might not show that the A89 freeway has been extended all the way to the A71 freeway north of Cleremont Ferrand.

Make sure you visit Chateau Meillant on the way to Bourges. It will probably be the most interesting chateau you will have visited on this vacation. It closes for lunch. Opening times are in the Dordogne Green Guide.


In Sept ’06, we visited Sens, Provins, and Troyes on the same day - staying overnight in Troyes & exploring Troyes again the next morning. This itinerary would be my suggestion for your last night prior to Paris, and on the way to Paris the next day. However, I would not visit Sens – it wasn’t nearly as interesting as the other stops. Troyes would be a worthwhile place to visit even if shops are closed. I don’t remember going into any shops, and we also toured the city in the early morning before the shops opened – and we enjoyed it thoroughly. Provins is kinda touristy, so shops may even be open on Sunday & Monday morning.

My wife & I were very impressed with Troyes. The old half-timbered buildings there were extremely interesting. We also enjoyed the Hotel de Vauluisant's textile museum (we passed quickly through their religious art museum). If you have the Alsace Green Guide, follow the walking itinerary for Troyes. I would budget at least 4 hours for Troyes. We stayed at the le Royal Hotel (be aware, however, that my only 2 criteria for choosing a hotel are low price, and conveniently located). We dined at the le Valentino – which is on a square off one of the 4 foot wide streets. We had an excellent meal there at very reasonable prices. It’s closed Sun evening & Mon.

The interesting part of Provins is quite small. The folklore museum is worthwhile, but the caves visit was quite tedious & long. It's guided (in French), and you can't 'bug out" early because there is no way you can find your way back to the entrance. I would budget no more than 2 hours if you only visit the folklore museum & not the caves. Also walk around the Ramparts, and climb the Tour Cesar. There is a walking tour in the Green Guide for Alsace.

Stu Dudley