firecracker

Wish you could all join in and come and see the fireworks!! It's Guy Faukes today!

xx

.... <BR>We see no reason why gunpowder treason <BR>Should ever be forgot. <BR> <BR>We couldn't forget - they've been letting off fireworks since last Thusday!

**

Last Thursday, you're lucky in this part of London it's been going on for over a week. I'm beginning to feel like one of the Taleban.

sylvia

In the East End, they were letting off fireworks in October!

xxxxx

Let's also not forget that Guy Fauk (sp) was a persecuted Catholic. The holiday is fun but lets not forget the tyranny that it sprang out of.

yyyyyy

"Let's also not forget that Guy Fauk (sp) was a persecuted Catholic" <BR> <BR>What a load of cobblers! <BR>Guy Fawkes was caught red-handed about to blow up innocent civilians. He was a terrorist. Whoops, I forgot terrorists are only people who attack Americans.

xxx

And what was happening to people who identified themselves as Catholics at the time? Did you loose your life or your land or both if you were identified as Catholic?

Sarah

What is the rest of this little chant "remember remember the fifth of November"? Can anyone help me on this one?

hist

Sarah <BR>Remember remember the 5th of November <BR>Gunpowder treason and plot <BR>I see no reason that Gunpowder Treason <BR>Should ever be forget. <BR> <BR>Mr/Ms XXX <BR>"Did you lose your life or your land or both if you were identified as Catholic?" <BR> <BR>No, but you were excluded from power. It's often interesting to compare historical events with more recent ones. The position of Catholics at the time was a bit like Communists in 1950s America, it was legal but it made life difficult. You can also think of Scotland pre-James 1st rather like Cuba, a small country in England's "back yard" allied with a powerful rival, France instead of the USSR. <BR>

Ginger

Actually xxx there was a heck of a lot of persecution going on in 17th century so I don't think you can single out catholics as being the only or even the prime victims. In fact, in England (where Guy Fawkes was doing his thing), they got off pretty lightly when compared to others. Mainly they paid resuscancy fines - which were rarely collected) and they sheltered under the umbrella protection of extremely wealthy and influential catholic aristocrats, they followed their religion in private. <BR>Sure, when politics and religion meshed (as they frequently did during this period) things got a little hairy, but still catholics didn't do too badly. <BR> <BR>Puritans, later in the century, had their ears cropped and were branded on the face - yuck! surely that's much worse than paying a fine. The Qaker leader had his tongue bored, was twice flogged and sentenced to perpetual jail, but the sorriest case had to be in France where one nobleman was made to kneel in front of the church, hold a 3 lbs buring coal in his bare hands while he confessed to his supposed sins, was then taken to the village square, tied to a cart wheel, flogged, partially disembowled and before he died was hanged. Now that's what I call persecution! <BR> <BR>Also if you want to look at the religious leanings of British monarchy during the 17th century you'll see that until sweet William came (thank God for the Dutch - invasion was never so sweet) and rescued us from twitty James, all the monarchs had a definite leaning to catholicism. <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR>

kate

In fact, 5th November could really be viewed as "anti-terrorism day", as it's the celebration of the foiling of a terrorist plot to blow up the government. <BR> <BR>It's also the only national celebration England has held continuosly for 400 years (even Christmas was banned under the Puritan Oliver Cromwell). It continued even during our brief period as a republic, as the plot was against parliament as well as the King, so the celebration is seen somewhat as a celebration of ordered society against anarchy.

sick

I don't know about it being a celebration of an ordered society against anarchy. Where I live the anarchists have been setting off fireworks for the past two weeks. I would ban them if I could (the fireworks and the hoolies who let them off).

D.B.

More importantly on Nov. 5th, was the first American automobile patent to George Seldon in 1895. Much earlier than Henry Ford, who did not invent the automobile.<BR>

xxx

Sweet William? That'll be King Billy also known as Stinking Billy, who led the British at the Battle of the Boyne, and caused all the trouble in Northern Ireland from 1690 to date.<BR><BR>Give me a Catholic King any day

kate

hmmm, like good old Queen Mary Tudor, cleansing protestant souls on the bonfire.<BR><BR>Doesn't religion create so much agro? Thank God I'm an atheist.