My husband and I, Americans, will be traveling to Munich and wish to see Italy while we are in Europe. After perusing differents travel options, we have settled on the train. If we take an Overnight to Venice from Munich, (2 nights) then the fast train to Turin,(staying overnight) then the train along the Italian Riveria and stay somewhere. (3 nights in Rapallo?) I will train to Florence (2-3 nights) stopping at Pisa on the way; and then overnight back to Munich. I think I need to purchase a Flex Pass with 3 countries, if I understand the system right, I will be going through Austria and that would be required. I think this allows using the night trains and it is all premier. Is anyone familiar with the Passes? I think for the amount of train usage, this will be a wise choice because of the two night trains. Is it better to buy the passes on-line while still in the US or wait until we get to Germany and bet on the Euro rate of exchange? Any suggestions?

A railpass will get you a seat on the night train, but not a bed or couchette which cost extra.

For Italy alone, a railpass is rarely cost effective. Railpasses do not include the cost of the mandatory seat reservations (required on most trains in Italy) so you would have to pay for those also.

Your railpasses must be purchased before leaving the states as they are not available to purchase in Europe except for a few country specific passes such as the Swiss Pass.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by "premier". What website are you using to look at passes?

Rick Steves outlines railpasses. I don't know if you can get it his website or just go to a bookstore or library to read it. I remember him saying that in most cases railpasses aren't worth it. In few cases it is. As Kybourbon mentioned a seat not a bed or couchette on an overnight train and not being able to make reserved seats can be a problem. Sorry, I'm not 20 years old anymore so a seat overnight doesn't sound good to me.

One question...have you checked the discount flights from Germany to Italy and back? Then just train around Italy. Ryanair, EasyJet, etc. Last year it cost my husband and me $109 US dollars one way from Paris to Naples...total for both of us on EasyJet.

Ann1, I did look on the Airline websites. Going to Munich is the problem, I think. I can fly out of Rome, for about $120 each, but we don't know exactly when we are leaving. Flying out of Turin, Venice or Florence is expensive. Milan isn't bad, but they are 8:30 A.M. flights and I don't know if we could get to the airport by then.
Kybourbon, I was looking at the Eurail Select Pass:
http://www.raileurope.com/rail-ticke...ass/index.html

•This pass gives you unlimited travel on the national rail networks of 3, 4 or 5 bordering countries connected by train.
•Choice of 5, 6, 8, 10 or 15 days within 2 months, consecutively or not.
•Available in first-class. Youth passes are only available in second-class.

I thought since it said first-class, that would be a bunk.

I just reviewed the "reservations" required. One more pitfall. Now I know why people use "tours" or travel agents. But I will keep planning.

As noted, passes are rarely the bargain they once were. The way to determine if a pass is a bargain is to calculate the cost of buying separate tickets and comparing to pass cost. Remember that with the pass you still need to pay supplements for things like mandatory reservations (especially on fast trains) and any sort of sleeping accommodation on an overnight train. First class does not mean you get a bunk.

Nope. A railpass only gives you the right to ride a train, not a bunk and not even a couchette. 1st cl only means you are buying to travel in the 1st cl cars, not the 2nd cl cars.

In Italy, the fast trains (AV, ES, ICPlus, IC) are reserved seat only which you must buy (10€ or $13.61 at today's exchange rate per person, per train). The only trains in Italy that don't require seat reservations are the slow R trains.

Here's a list of extra fees you have to pay with a pass. Buying 1st cl means the extra fees are higher. Getting a sleeper in 1st cl can add as much as $200 per person each time.
http://www.ricksteves.com/rail/pdfs/reservations.pdf

If you book a cheaper couchette, you will be sharing with other people as they are either 4 berth or 6 berth.

I would do as Ann suggests and book a budget airline from Munich to Italy. Germanwings flies Munich to Milan, Bologna and Vernona. I entered a random date in April and found flights as cheap as 59€ from Munich to Bologna. You do have to watch luggage weight restrictions with the budgets, but I would store any extra luggage in Munich (train station?, airport? - whichever is cheaper) and just take what you need for the week. Flying to either Bologna or Verona, you are an easy train ride to Venice or Florence. Perhaps fly into Verona, train to Venice, train to Florence/Pisa/CT, train to Turin and fly back from Milan. I think you can fly cheaper than the night supplements. I would buy point-to-point train tickets after arriving in Italy.
https://www.germanwings.com

Ann1, I checked out the airlines you suggested. I never heard of those sites. Thanks! Now I just have to understand them. They seem really cheap, but then they have extra fees, unlike the U.S, which quotes with fees inclusive. I just need time to digest and understand. I will look at germanwings.com also. We have back packs, not luggage. We are visiting relatives in Munich, so extra luggage can be left there. Thanks for the wonderful input. Ryan Air flies into Pisa. I haven't checked the other sites yet. I am very excited that I will find something.

If you are still trying to sort this out here are some possible additional sources.

For all so-called budget flights witghin Europe there are two sites you can use:

www.skyscanner.net and www.whichbudget.com

Be VERY aware that some of these flights may not be direct and you may have to fly to a hub city and change first.

The usual issues apply with the airlines and some have been mentioned such as the very well-enforced baggage weight restrictions and some may also apply restrictions to your carry-ons.

The plane vs. train...the train will take you from city center to city center; the flights obviously leave from and arrive in airports which are often outside the city and require additional transport...sometimes by rail.

I agree that you might want to compare prices and one good way to do that is to contact Byron at Budget Europe Travel Service and ask him to compare the price of point-to-point tickets vs. passes....do NOT use the RailEurope price indicators OR their rail timetable which is very incomplete in terms of available timings.

Passes become more economical the MORE you use them and yes, you would need a pass which includes Austria if you took the train from Munich into Italy. The term "premier" is a marketing tool used by RailEurope to describe some services.

Byron's phone number: 800-441-2387

TOTALLY reliable and absolutely NO sales pressure.

Thank you Dukey, yes I am still confused. My iteniary changes daily. With all the helpful suggestions, I am sure that, whatever route I choose, my trip will be wonderful. what is the charge for a travel agent? I haven't used a travel agent in years, when they were free.

I used to order all my tickets from the various rail websites such as Germanrail (Bahn.de) SNCF, etc., but I use BETS exclusively these days. There is no charge for the agent...BUT be aware that if you order products from these people they DO add on a shipping charge and there may be a certain amount of mark-up and that mark-up VARIES....usually I have found I can make arrangements more cheaply (less shipping fees and often with lower seat reservation charges) by using the rail sites directly...but if you are willing to pay for convenience then I would consider using somebody like Byron.

I know it can be problematic trying to figure out "the best way" and we recently went through the same motions planning an upcoming segment Munich-Verona-Venice....and I thought about flying from MUC but after considering all the factors including the limited timings of the flights we decided on rail.

I am sure it will work out for you and that you will make the right decision.

what is the charge for a travel agent? >

Most have no fees, anymore - Railpasses for instance must be sold at a price set by the Eurail Committee, in Utrecht, Holland - every agent selling a pass must sell it at a uniform price but some, like ricksteves.com do charge a mailing fee - mailing and handling fees can be added on but more and more there are no extra charges except for really rush mailing orders.

Dutto11:

Here are two websites that can help you with discount airlines within Europe:

http://www.vueling.com/index.php?language=EN (this one is really good)

http://www.whichbudget.com/

www.skyscanner.net has also been mentioned as a conduit to discount airlines doing European routes

rather than taking overnight trains both ways between Munich and Rome try to do one in the daytime as the journey thru the Brennero Pass in the Austrian Alps (at Italian border) and on to Innsbruck to Munich is quite scenic - try to leave from Florence or northern Italy to reduce travel time - maybe put Venice into your plans as Venice to Munich is much less time than Rome to Munich

I changed our plane tickets and will fly into Venice April 12 andout of Rome, April 23rd. I am regretting it already, but my husband just developed a business commitment, which requires us to cut our trip short. At this late date, these flights wereour only option. My next question...If I buy a ticket to Turin from Venice, can I get off in Bologna and sight then reboard for Turin, without voiding my ticket to Turin? Maybe we should spend he night in Bologna. I do searh the websites, etc to see what surrounds the train station, but I haven't done that for Bologna yet.

Bologna is not along the route to Torino. To travel Venice-Bologna-Torino you would have to take more than one train and be issued two tickets (or more, depending on connections). A typical ticket from Venice to Torino would take you through Milano.

I want to reinforce Palenque's advice above and recommend one of the most scenic rail rides in Europe--Munich to Innsbruck then across the Brenner pass to Verona & Venice--you can leave Munich at 11:30 am, have lunch on the train, get to Verona around 5pm then Venice around 6pm.-----then take your first ferry ride along the Grand Canal....magical!