jkirkmd

As a US citizen, I am planning a round trip between Paris-Bordeaux and I'm wondering if there is a reason why someone would buy tickets from RailEurope over SNCF. With RailEurope you must buy the rail pass, and then reserve a seat on top of that. For three adults, the total is around $600. I checked on SNCF and one can just reserve a ticket, without a railpass, and the total comes to 288 euro, or around $400. I think that you can just pick up tickets which you have reserved online at the railstation once in France. Is there something I am overlooking here? Why would one pay $600 instead of $400 for tickets?????

ira

Hi jk,

>...I'm wondering if there is a reason why someone would buy tickets from RailEurope over SNCF. <

Who suggested you should?

You can purchase PREMS fares at www.voyages-sncf.com for as low as 25E pp each way.

GeoffHamer

I think a lot of visitors from the US and elsewhere have a mistaken idea of rail passes. The passes are for people doing a lot of rail travel. For simple journeys, it's usually much cheaper just to buy point-to-point tickets, which is what 99.99% of rail passengers do. Agents obviously prefer to sell passes because they're simple to issue and earn more commission.

jkirkmd

You're right - I have assumed that a pass would always be more economical. Plus, I guess I was looking for the "comfort" of having a pass in hand before we leave for France, and hoping we could get those tickets, and have the exact reservation, there. Thanks for the clarification!

PalenQ

Though i agree with most statements here the pass can be good - especially for folks landing at CDG and looking to take a train out of there. With the PREM fares they are non-refundable non-changeable - with the pass you should pay RE's fee for a reservation because one other problem with the pass is that there is a strict allotment on some TGVs for passes - they will locally sell you a full fare ticket but not a pass reservation at times. But reserve when you buy your pass and if you miss the train you're only out the reservation fee and can try other trains, even if it means going into Montparnasse for many more options.

Those wanting flexibility shoud go with the pass as full fare tickets at stations are very expensive. Those who go the www.voyages-sncf.com route will pay the least overall but if that's not what you want, to be pinned down, then strongly look at the pass.

Thus one may pay $600 for flexibility to decide which train to take once in France than $400 to have it cast in stone. Most folks, however, are fine with casting in stone. In any case raileurope has lousy customer service - they charge 10% more to talk to someone to say ask about reservations, pass options, etc. And on some orders under $400 they charge absurd handling fees. That's one reason i always advise if a pass is for you to go thru BETS eee.budgeteuropetravel.com, about the only agent you can talk to on phone these days and to experts it seems who have trained there lots themselves. But for most the www.voyages-sncf.com is better than the pass. But do so starting at 60 days when they come in to lock in the low fare as the train date approaches they tend to disappear.

PalenQ

<buy point-to-point tickets, which is what 99.99% of rail passengers do>

i'd say the opposite - of the zillions of Europeans who ride the trains daily they all have some kind of local pass or discount card. No one buys simple point-point tickets which are much higher than their passes they use to commute to work mainly.

Or Senior or Youth discount cards, etc. Travelers have to buy full fare and they're about the only ones it seems.

alanRow

<<< Travelers have to buy full fare and they're about the only ones it seems. >>>

Unless they buy in advance

PalenQ

of course, if you are talking about long distance trains.

Yet i'd say 95% of European train travel is fairly local - commuters, etc. and on these type of fares there are oft no discounts online IME - but those with indigenous cards - like workers' special fares in France - get a discount but the traveling bloke showing up for say a paris-chartres trajectory pays full fare, which no one else on that train does.

So it depends on the type of trains you will be taking.

And yes for long distance often deep discounts for buying on line.

kerouac

Living in France and being able to take vacation when I want to (relaxed company), I generally plan my rail trips depending on the cheapest tickets that I can find and then take days off accordingly. You can go all the way across France by TGV for 19€ or less and often take 1st class for something like 25€. Naturally, I have far more flexibility than a foreign vacationer. One has to have a few compensations for the horrors of having chosen to live in France.

jkirkmd

That's amazing for TGV travel. Does SNCF post bargain basement fares the day before, or of, a train's departure? It seems the PREMS are all picked over many weeks in advance. I'm sure most of us have an unreasonably romantic view of living in France (thanks to the likes of Peter Mayle), but it's hard to imagine it would be a "horrific" experience! (unless living in a major city, in which case I would feel the same way in ANY part of the world!)

ira

>Thus one may pay $600 for flexibility to decide which train to take once in France than $400 to have it cast in stone.<

However, in this case it's $600 for flexibility vs 25E for cast in stone.

SuzieCII

Karouac is being wry.

I've been lucky in the States and gotten Prem fares. MorganB has done an OUTSTANDING service in posting how to do this... and when you do it that way, you can download your prem ticket at home and take it with you...and its lovely.

PalenQ

<I checked on SNCF and one can just reserve a ticket, without a railpass, and the total comes to 288 euro, or around $400.>

Ira - i was referring to the OP who had checked for the cheapest fare presumably on the date they needed to travel - there are 25 euro fares but i don't think you can depend on getting one the time you need to travel - so for OP the difference was $200 and he posed the question why?

I've been on voyages-sncf and those 25 euro fares seem few and far between and have to hop on them early. More like 69 euros seem to be the best one month out.

So comparing 25 euros to $600 - and a 3-day unlimited France pass costs about $205 p.p. on Saverpass so forget the $600 even with reservation fees. And you have one other day of unlimited travel.

Great savings can be made online but not always and as easily as you seem to imply. I'll do a more exhaustive search on sncf and see how available these 25 euro first class fares are. I know one thing even the red-deficit loving sncf don't make money carrying people around for 25 euros in first class. I just wonder why anyone would pay more than that? I think the seats are extremely limited and if you can fit the odd train into your schedule fine.

But i'm not sure and you may well be right on - i'll do some research and report back even if i'm dead wrong. Sincerely, Pal Q

kerouac

I looked at Paris-Bordeaux exactly one month from today (i.e. September 1st) and you can get a first class ticket for 39€ (17h20). The cheapest 2nd class ticket is 35€ (10h50).

Looking just 2 weeks in the future (15 August), you can get 1st class for 32.90€ or 2nd class for 22.90€, both on the train at 17h20.

It is really not hard to find cheap tickets at all.

PalenQ

well Ira's right it seems - they are more available than i would have thought. Why would anyone pay more? How can sncf make any money at those rates? Onboard purchases? Of course they don't make money but often run huge deficits, which is fine with me as i think trains should be highly subsidized public services - like roads and airports.

PalenQ

Ironic that RailEurope is of course largely owned by the sncf - the President of RailEurope always comes direct from the SNCF in France. Swiss rail owns about 25-30% i think. French the rest. So they are competing against themselves and it would be in sncf's best interest to try to hinder such purchases by foreigners - perhaps why for some, if many reports are believed here, sncf site is rather difficult for the novice at least to work.

kerouac

Just like airlines, the SNCF makes money by juggling fares. There are high revenue seats and low revenue seats. The trick is to fill as many seats as possible. It should be noted that the SNCF bought its reservation system from American Airlines.

PalenQ

<SNCF makes money by>

am i missing something here - "Makes Money" - don't they run a chronic red ink? do they actually make money?

i'm sure i've told too many times perhaps the old joke my once young French son told me he had heard at school:

There were three kids talking about what their fathers did and when they got home

first said, my Dad's a waiter and he gets off work at 7pm and is home by 7:30

second said, my Pop works for Credit Lyonnais and gets off work at 5:30 and is home by 6pm.

third said my Papa works for the SNCF and he gets off work at 5pn and is home by 3pm!

kerouac

SNCF makes money ever since RFF (Réseaux Ferrés de France) was separated from it -- SNCF runs the trains and RFF rents them the tracks. So it is RFF that is in debt for 70 years for building the TGV lines.

PalenQ

jack - you mean the cheminots in their orange work suits who are often see working on tracks with several cigarette smoking guys standing around one guy actually doing something no longer work for sncf but now RFF is saddled with them?

perhaps i'm being too unkind to cheminots?