Quickest way to travel from NW to center or west of South Wales?
Mar 5th, 2011, 09:22 AM
#43
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Okay!--(yes it looks like I'm never going let this thread die...) I'm at a point of final decision-making, thanks to all of your help here--and with my initial post in mind, would love to hear all opinions on the following possible plan:
Train from Manchester to Colwyn Bay since I'll be jet-lagged.
Lodging for 3 nights, Rent & Return car all in Colwyn Bay. (Will this location allow reasonable time & driving for 3 day trips to Harlech & the Caernarfon Welsh Highland or Snowdon narrow gauge train trip, and Anglesey Island, and then Conwy, Rhuddlan and Dolwyddelan?)
Train from Colwyn to Swansea via Shrewsbury.
Lodging for 3 nights, Rent & return car all in Swansea. (Same question as above: Does this location make sense for reasonable time & driving to visit castles from Pembroke & Kidwelly to the west, and Goodrich Castle or Chepstow at the furthest east?)
Then take a train from Swansea to Manchester.
Additional questions:
>Is 17 minutes connection time okay for Shrewsbury?
>What's involved in getting from Manchester airport to (I think) the Piccadilli train station at the beginning of my trip?
Thanks for your incredible patience and assistance, folks! It appears that doing the trip this way will cost USD $295 as compared to USD $230 to drive the whole "circle" route from Manchester across the north, down to the south, then across the south coast & back to Manchester.
Train from Manchester to Colwyn Bay since I'll be jet-lagged.
Lodging for 3 nights, Rent & Return car all in Colwyn Bay. (Will this location allow reasonable time & driving for 3 day trips to Harlech & the Caernarfon Welsh Highland or Snowdon narrow gauge train trip, and Anglesey Island, and then Conwy, Rhuddlan and Dolwyddelan?)
Train from Colwyn to Swansea via Shrewsbury.
Lodging for 3 nights, Rent & return car all in Swansea. (Same question as above: Does this location make sense for reasonable time & driving to visit castles from Pembroke & Kidwelly to the west, and Goodrich Castle or Chepstow at the furthest east?)
Then take a train from Swansea to Manchester.
Additional questions:
>Is 17 minutes connection time okay for Shrewsbury?
>What's involved in getting from Manchester airport to (I think) the Piccadilli train station at the beginning of my trip?
Thanks for your incredible patience and assistance, folks! It appears that doing the trip this way will cost USD $295 as compared to USD $230 to drive the whole "circle" route from Manchester across the north, down to the south, then across the south coast & back to Manchester.
Mar 6th, 2011, 05:59 AM
#45
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17 minutes is plenty of time to transfer in Shrewsbury if the incoming train is on time.
Metrolink tram connects Manchester Picadilly with the airport but trains for North Wales leave directly from the airport so that might be a better option.
I am not sure I would use Colwyn Bay as a base for all you plan to see but it is "doable" depending on the time you spend at each place. I know others may disagree but I find Colwyn Bay a fairly dreary seaside town. Llandudno or Conwy have more going on.
Swansea is fairly large but I don't really know it. I think I would prefer staying outside it rather than going in and out of the city center every day, but maybe that's your plan.
Metrolink tram connects Manchester Picadilly with the airport but trains for North Wales leave directly from the airport so that might be a better option.
I am not sure I would use Colwyn Bay as a base for all you plan to see but it is "doable" depending on the time you spend at each place. I know others may disagree but I find Colwyn Bay a fairly dreary seaside town. Llandudno or Conwy have more going on.
Swansea is fairly large but I don't really know it. I think I would prefer staying outside it rather than going in and out of the city center every day, but maybe that's your plan.
Mar 7th, 2011, 08:46 AM
#46
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Colwyn Bay IMO, with rail links and a good situation for motorists, is an adequate base IF you do not spend much time in this rather modern seaside resort with very little character IME, unlike some seaside resorts like Llandudno, which sports a Victorian waterfront or at least it appeared to me - a nice old boardwalk with iron benches, stately old hotels lining the seafront, etc.
Colwyn Bay seemed mainly shopping malls and low-rise modern hotels.
Colwyn Bay seemed mainly shopping malls and low-rise modern hotels.
Mar 7th, 2011, 03:29 PM
#47
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Thanks, Cathinjoetown. Are the trains known for being on time or not? I'd like to catch one out to Shrewsbury in the morning around 9am if I remember correctly. And for some reason, I couldn't get the route finder to work when I asked for trains from Manchester airport to Colwyn (where I need to rent my car). I'd be very happy not to have to trek to Picadilly. Wonder what I did wrong.
PalenQ and Cathinjoetown--I don't have to stay in Colwyn Bay. Will only be sleeping wherever I choose lodging, as my focus is only on castle ruins and a few stone sites (Llandudno is not on my list)--so I just need a sort of central location for several nights. Same for Swansea--would rather not stay there in particular now, from the sound of it.
I think since I have worn out this thread, and have refined my plans with all the help here, I'll open a new thread for my remaining questions. Thanks to all!
PalenQ and Cathinjoetown--I don't have to stay in Colwyn Bay. Will only be sleeping wherever I choose lodging, as my focus is only on castle ruins and a few stone sites (Llandudno is not on my list)--so I just need a sort of central location for several nights. Same for Swansea--would rather not stay there in particular now, from the sound of it.
I think since I have worn out this thread, and have refined my plans with all the help here, I'll open a new thread for my remaining questions. Thanks to all!
Mar 8th, 2011, 07:28 AM
#48
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Though the Great Orme is not a castle it does have some kind of stone ruins on its top - and this rocky spit of a mountain hovers high above the Colwyn Bay-Conwy-Llandudno area - you can either hike up from Llandudno or take the antique tram up top for stellar views all around - some kind of mountain goats - anyway very famous and if in the area...
Mar 8th, 2011, 07:58 AM
#49
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Sorry, I have no idea about the track record of trains out of Shrewsbury.
I'm the one who voted in favor of your doing the drive! But, would help if I could. There are tables of on time results for UK trains but I don't know where to find them and have no idea how detailed they are. At any rate, it would only be an indicator.
I'm the one who voted in favor of your doing the drive! But, would help if I could. There are tables of on time results for UK trains but I don't know where to find them and have no idea how detailed they are. At any rate, it would only be an indicator.
Mar 8th, 2011, 08:52 AM
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s, Cathinjoetown. Are the trains known for being on time or not? I'd like to catch one out to Shrewsbury in the morning around 9am if I remember correctly.>
British trains are not the most reliable IME so expect a train could be late but there are so so many trains there will be another within an hour or so.
Try the German Railways web site www.bahn.de for even train schedules in the U.K. Easiest site I've seen to use.
British trains are not the most reliable IME so expect a train could be late but there are so so many trains there will be another within an hour or so.
Try the German Railways web site www.bahn.de for even train schedules in the U.K. Easiest site I've seen to use.
Mar 8th, 2011, 10:28 AM
#51
I do think you are over complicating things a bit. If you had to take the train - that's perfectly fine. But you are sort of artificially inserting these train journeys between car hires. W/ your interest in castles and off-the-beaten-path stuff -- I'd really REALLY recommend just keeping the car. There are sooooo many interesting places you'll just come across as you drive through the country. Some may be worth a 10 minute stop, while others maye end up being your favorite discoveries.
Not much chance for serendipity on the train . . .
Not much chance for serendipity on the train . . .
Mar 8th, 2011, 12:29 PM
#52
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Great British Heritage Pass: Britain Sightseeing with the British ...Planning to visit Britain? Discover UK heritage with the Great British Heritage Pass. Great tourist savings & best of British Sightseeing – buy online.
www.britishheritagepass.com/
Yes janisj is right - some old castle, a stately house or villa just around every bend and anyone IMO doing Britain by car should buy the Great British Heritage Pass, which gives entry for various time periods to zillions of such places - places that with often daunting entry fees of $15 or more you probably would not go in without the pass. And, according to janisj in a past post you need not buy the pass before hitting the U.K. as she/he says many participating places sell it on site.
Note there are English Heritage passes and National Turst passes but only the Great British Heritage Pass would cover things both in Wales and England - well the National Trust pass would but it only covers National Trust places I believe and not the many like private estates/stately houses the GBHP covers.
A few castle entries can make the pass pay off.
www.britishheritagepass.com/
Yes janisj is right - some old castle, a stately house or villa just around every bend and anyone IMO doing Britain by car should buy the Great British Heritage Pass, which gives entry for various time periods to zillions of such places - places that with often daunting entry fees of $15 or more you probably would not go in without the pass. And, according to janisj in a past post you need not buy the pass before hitting the U.K. as she/he says many participating places sell it on site.
Note there are English Heritage passes and National Turst passes but only the Great British Heritage Pass would cover things both in Wales and England - well the National Trust pass would but it only covers National Trust places I believe and not the many like private estates/stately houses the GBHP covers.
A few castle entries can make the pass pay off.
Mar 8th, 2011, 01:50 PM
#53
available to buy locally are the National Trust pass, and membership of english Heritage.
i've never seen the GBHP advertised to us Brits. Here's a link to information for aussie visitors which says the same thing.:
http://www.visitbritainshop.com/aust...tage-pass.html
i've never seen the GBHP advertised to us Brits. Here's a link to information for aussie visitors which says the same thing.:
http://www.visitbritainshop.com/aust...tage-pass.html
Mar 8th, 2011, 02:05 PM
#54
annhig: <i>i've never seen the GBHP advertised to us Brits.</i>
That's because they are only offered to foreign visitors.
One has to show their passport if buying the GBHP on-site in the UK. The reason I usually recommend the GBHP is because it covers all English Heritage, all Nat'l Trust, all CADW, Historic Scotland, etc - plus MANY privately owned places (Blenheim, Chatsworth, Beaulieu, Castle Howard etc.) So while it initially costs more than the National Trust or English Heritage passes, the GBHP can save some visitors a massive amount of £££ .
It also once covered most of the Royal properties (HCP, the Tower, Osbourne House, etc) but that ended maybe 5-ish years ago.
That's because they are only offered to foreign visitors.
One has to show their passport if buying the GBHP on-site in the UK. The reason I usually recommend the GBHP is because it covers all English Heritage, all Nat'l Trust, all CADW, Historic Scotland, etc - plus MANY privately owned places (Blenheim, Chatsworth, Beaulieu, Castle Howard etc.) So while it initially costs more than the National Trust or English Heritage passes, the GBHP can save some visitors a massive amount of £££ .
It also once covered most of the Royal properties (HCP, the Tower, Osbourne House, etc) but that ended maybe 5-ish years ago.
Mar 8th, 2011, 04:11 PM
#55
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Well this thread is sure taking some turns! And I just can't say enough about how I appreciate everyone's patience and help. PalenQ & Cathinjoetown, today I was able to figure out the whole trip with combinations of rail, rental car, and bus. I was planning on purchasing the cadw Explorer pass when I arrive at my first castle site. Since I won't be visiting anything in England except Goodrich castle, I believe it will be a bargain.
janisj, you say "I do think you are over complicating things a bit...Not much chance for serendipity on the train." And yes you are certainly right that it has taken a great deal of effort and help to figure out this trip, just as it did for me when I traveled by mostly public transportation in Scotland several years ago. I've not made a final decision on how I will travel yet, but will explain my reason for posting the original question of this thread, and why I am leaning toward the "complicated" combinations.
1) I have only 1 week in Wales, and my focus is on visiting about 12 castles and several stone burial sites--therefore, "serendipity" is not my agenda for this trip. Maybe another time!
2) I am traveling solo, and there is no question that when driving and having to watch the road and oncoming cars, etc, there is less ability to view the landscape while driving.
3) With no sites on my list for the expanse of mid-Wales (sorry, no offense, maybe next time!), I would love to sit back & watch the scenery go by.
4) Same for my trip from the Manchester airport and returning there. Why hassle with driving when the price of rail travel may be not much more expensive?
janisj, you say "I do think you are over complicating things a bit...Not much chance for serendipity on the train." And yes you are certainly right that it has taken a great deal of effort and help to figure out this trip, just as it did for me when I traveled by mostly public transportation in Scotland several years ago. I've not made a final decision on how I will travel yet, but will explain my reason for posting the original question of this thread, and why I am leaning toward the "complicated" combinations.
1) I have only 1 week in Wales, and my focus is on visiting about 12 castles and several stone burial sites--therefore, "serendipity" is not my agenda for this trip. Maybe another time!
2) I am traveling solo, and there is no question that when driving and having to watch the road and oncoming cars, etc, there is less ability to view the landscape while driving.
3) With no sites on my list for the expanse of mid-Wales (sorry, no offense, maybe next time!), I would love to sit back & watch the scenery go by.
4) Same for my trip from the Manchester airport and returning there. Why hassle with driving when the price of rail travel may be not much more expensive?
Mar 9th, 2011, 08:40 AM
#56
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Whether or not a train in the UK will run on time is a matter of conjecture. If it is essential that you are somewhere on time then take the train before the one that SHOULD get you there.
From Manchester Airport to Colwyn Bay (not Colwyn) you have a choice of routes both involving a change. Either up to Picadilly then change to a train across the North Wales coast (destination Holyhead Bangor or Llandudno any of which will pass through Colwyn Bay ) or take a train south to Crewe and change in Crewe for Chester and possibly change in Chester also for the North Wales coast.
I would go up to Picadilly because the trains go from the airport every 15 or 30 mins.From Picadilly there is a train to Chester every hour (but not necessarily one which goes through to North Wales). Once in Chester there is a train to North Wales every hour.
From Crewe there is a train to Chester every half hour and then once there you have the hourly service to North Wales.
There is nothing to appeal in Colwyn Bay- Conwy- about 5 miles away has far more charm. Similarly I wouldn't stay in Swansea but head out to the Gower Peninsula.
The airport in Manchester has a train station between terminals 1 and 2.
As for your location vis a vis your sightseeing, Harlech and the Welsh Highland Railway or Ffestinoig Railway are in the same direction. However if you go on the Welsh Highland Railway you will have to return on it to pick your car up to go back down (same direction) to Harlech.The same will apply to the Ffestiniog Railway- you will have to return to Porthmadog(or wherever you leave your car) and then continue.
You could achieve the same by going to Harlech and then on the way back see a bit of Anglesey. The next day take the train ride and on the way back see the rest of Anglesey.
From Manchester Airport to Colwyn Bay (not Colwyn) you have a choice of routes both involving a change. Either up to Picadilly then change to a train across the North Wales coast (destination Holyhead Bangor or Llandudno any of which will pass through Colwyn Bay ) or take a train south to Crewe and change in Crewe for Chester and possibly change in Chester also for the North Wales coast.
I would go up to Picadilly because the trains go from the airport every 15 or 30 mins.From Picadilly there is a train to Chester every hour (but not necessarily one which goes through to North Wales). Once in Chester there is a train to North Wales every hour.
From Crewe there is a train to Chester every half hour and then once there you have the hourly service to North Wales.
There is nothing to appeal in Colwyn Bay- Conwy- about 5 miles away has far more charm. Similarly I wouldn't stay in Swansea but head out to the Gower Peninsula.
The airport in Manchester has a train station between terminals 1 and 2.
As for your location vis a vis your sightseeing, Harlech and the Welsh Highland Railway or Ffestinoig Railway are in the same direction. However if you go on the Welsh Highland Railway you will have to return on it to pick your car up to go back down (same direction) to Harlech.The same will apply to the Ffestiniog Railway- you will have to return to Porthmadog(or wherever you leave your car) and then continue.
You could achieve the same by going to Harlech and then on the way back see a bit of Anglesey. The next day take the train ride and on the way back see the rest of Anglesey.
Mar 9th, 2011, 10:27 AM
#57
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Frances, thanks again so much for your incredibly detailed descriptions and suggestions! And yes, I had already decided that I will stay in Conwy and Pembroke. Still need a good location around the "SE castle cluster" above and near Cardiff (and in no way wanting to stay in Cardiff). Suggestions welcome, and I'll probably post the question separately.
Afterthought to janisj: Additional to the list of rationale I gave just above---I also happen to enjoy occasional rail travel. Loved it when I traveled throughout Scotland.
Afterthought to janisj: Additional to the list of rationale I gave just above---I also happen to enjoy occasional rail travel. Loved it when I traveled throughout Scotland.
Mar 10th, 2011, 07:42 AM
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Prhaps of interest to some planning similar journeys
From the Guardian - a long-closed rail line has been reoppened to passenger travel - it goes from Caernarfon to Porthmadog, for an interchange with the main rail line along the Welsh Coast south. Just a tourist line but still could be a sweet way to go from Caernarfon towards southwest Wales.
From the Guardian - a long-closed rail line has been reoppened to passenger travel - it goes from Caernarfon to Porthmadog, for an interchange with the main rail line along the Welsh Coast south. Just a tourist line but still could be a sweet way to go from Caernarfon towards southwest Wales.
Mar 10th, 2011, 01:22 PM
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Just seen your post while loking for something else, hope you don't mind me adding my thoughts.
Get the car. It is difficult to get to the places you want to otherwise and if you like somewhere on route you can just stop.
From Manchester, a great first port of call would be Chester. Only 2 miles from Wales ( there is still a law that states you can still kill a Welshman with a bow and arrow at night, or something like that). Chester has Roman ruins, medieval rows and a walled city. There is a holiday inn express near the racecourse 200yds from the walls and a further 300 yds to the rows. It really would be a shame to miss.
http://www.chesterwalls.info/
Conwy is about 45min from here by car, Caernarfon an hour. Staying in Caernarfon there is both a new Premier Inn and Travelodge on the Menai Straits and about 300 yds from the castle. These are basic but good motels. Anglesey is a further 15 minutes by car and another 15 minutes brings you to Bryn Celli Ddu. Here, the sunlight only reaches the far wall at sunrise on the summer solstice (June 21)
http://www.ancientstones.org.uk/Angle_BrynCelliDhu.htm
Going to Dolwyddelan you could also take in the slate mines around Blaenau Ffestiniog and go underground on a trip.
Continue to Harlech before heading south to Cardiff on the A470 road (no more than 4 hours).
Here are some web pages from Youtube from a BBC series Great British Railway Journeys about the train that are worth watching. Each programme was 30 minutes and is usually posted in 2 parts.
This one includes Chirk castle 30 minutes south of Chester.
You could also visit Castell Dinas Bran at Llangollen, 15 minutes from Chirk (you have to be fit to climb to the top) it is linked to the holy grail and is set in a stunning location - google it. Walking to the top from the base takes 20 minutes
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Od9Bv...eature=related
Chester to Conwy part 1. I live near the opening viaduct, the first castle is Conwy. There is a tour of Chester and also shows Flint castle.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jj_lQ...eature=related
part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvVP_...eature=related
Going up Snowdon
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EoNd6OeR_dM
Hope these help and have a great time.
Get the car. It is difficult to get to the places you want to otherwise and if you like somewhere on route you can just stop.
From Manchester, a great first port of call would be Chester. Only 2 miles from Wales ( there is still a law that states you can still kill a Welshman with a bow and arrow at night, or something like that). Chester has Roman ruins, medieval rows and a walled city. There is a holiday inn express near the racecourse 200yds from the walls and a further 300 yds to the rows. It really would be a shame to miss.
http://www.chesterwalls.info/
Conwy is about 45min from here by car, Caernarfon an hour. Staying in Caernarfon there is both a new Premier Inn and Travelodge on the Menai Straits and about 300 yds from the castle. These are basic but good motels. Anglesey is a further 15 minutes by car and another 15 minutes brings you to Bryn Celli Ddu. Here, the sunlight only reaches the far wall at sunrise on the summer solstice (June 21)
http://www.ancientstones.org.uk/Angle_BrynCelliDhu.htm
Going to Dolwyddelan you could also take in the slate mines around Blaenau Ffestiniog and go underground on a trip.
Continue to Harlech before heading south to Cardiff on the A470 road (no more than 4 hours).
Here are some web pages from Youtube from a BBC series Great British Railway Journeys about the train that are worth watching. Each programme was 30 minutes and is usually posted in 2 parts.
This one includes Chirk castle 30 minutes south of Chester.
You could also visit Castell Dinas Bran at Llangollen, 15 minutes from Chirk (you have to be fit to climb to the top) it is linked to the holy grail and is set in a stunning location - google it. Walking to the top from the base takes 20 minutes
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Od9Bv...eature=related
Chester to Conwy part 1. I live near the opening viaduct, the first castle is Conwy. There is a tour of Chester and also shows Flint castle.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jj_lQ...eature=related
part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvVP_...eature=related
Going up Snowdon
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EoNd6OeR_dM
Hope these help and have a great time.
