Questions about German rail passes
Oct 11th, 2013, 06:50 AM
#41
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Bayern Pass is valid the whole day on any regional train and also city buses and trams and S-Bahns and U-Bahns - practically everything that moves in Bavaria and if not in a hurry or on routes with only regional trains a great GREAT deal.
Oct 11th, 2013, 09:03 AM
#42
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German Railpasses are also on sale thru Rail Europe - 20% off meaning a 7-day Twin Pass would cost p.p. $224 or about 32 $ a day or 160 euros - that is about 23 euros a day for completely unfettered travel - can't see how any series of discounted restricted tickets can match up so if my calculations are right I;d say for anyone doing 7 days to 10 days train travel (the 20% off special is only on this end anyway on 7, 8, 9, 10 passes and travel must be completed by the end of December (not sure of end date but something like that).
Maybe I've figured wrong but if no pass seems a no-brainer for anyone traveling on trains 7 days or more.
Maybe I've figured wrong but if no pass seems a no-brainer for anyone traveling on trains 7 days or more.
Oct 11th, 2013, 07:31 PM
#44
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"So, the Bayern ticket is one ticket to a specific place, at a specific time, not a day-pass type ticket to anywhere in Bavaria?"
No, it's a daypass. You have total flexibility within Bavaria to use regional trains and other local transport at any time throughout the day on Sat or Sun (only after 9 am on weekdays.) My point about flexibility addressed your question about advance-purchase. (Why purchase it in advance if you want the flexibility to stay in N'berg, instead traveling, if you feel ill, or if the weather is bad? That sort of thing.)
PalenQ: "(the railpass option) is about 23 euros a day for completely unfettered travel - can't see how any series of discounted restricted tickets can match up so if my calculations are right... seems a no-brainer for anyone traveling on trains 7 days or more."
It isn't a "no-brainer" at all. You only did the railpass calculations - not the calculations needed for the other options, calculations necessary for a mathematical comparison. I posted such calculations above for the specific travel legs crkwc1 has mentioned. If you find errors in my calculations for these other options, feel free to point them out, but when you review the math, I think you'll find, just as I did, that the railpasses end up $100+ more expensive than the alternatives, which include only one compromise in train equipment - the RE train daytrip from Nuremberg to Munich. It the OP must travel by IC or ICE on that day, or if she's actually going to travel 6 hours each way to Salzburg on another daytrip, then she'll be better off with a railpass. But now I'm repeating myself.
No, it's a daypass. You have total flexibility within Bavaria to use regional trains and other local transport at any time throughout the day on Sat or Sun (only after 9 am on weekdays.) My point about flexibility addressed your question about advance-purchase. (Why purchase it in advance if you want the flexibility to stay in N'berg, instead traveling, if you feel ill, or if the weather is bad? That sort of thing.)
PalenQ: "(the railpass option) is about 23 euros a day for completely unfettered travel - can't see how any series of discounted restricted tickets can match up so if my calculations are right... seems a no-brainer for anyone traveling on trains 7 days or more."
It isn't a "no-brainer" at all. You only did the railpass calculations - not the calculations needed for the other options, calculations necessary for a mathematical comparison. I posted such calculations above for the specific travel legs crkwc1 has mentioned. If you find errors in my calculations for these other options, feel free to point them out, but when you review the math, I think you'll find, just as I did, that the railpasses end up $100+ more expensive than the alternatives, which include only one compromise in train equipment - the RE train daytrip from Nuremberg to Munich. It the OP must travel by IC or ICE on that day, or if she's actually going to travel 6 hours each way to Salzburg on another daytrip, then she'll be better off with a railpass. But now I'm repeating myself.
Oct 12th, 2013, 04:34 AM
#45
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all in all the easiness of use of the railpass for 23 euros a day - I still see that as a no-brainer - takes all the calculations out of it - just show up , get on any train anytime - your calcs may save a few euros but IMO lose so much flexibility - again hopping any train - including right from the airport - when landing it's nice to take the next train not some train you've booked in stone for a discount but since it is non-changeable you have to leave a ot of fudge factor time in for late planes - with the pass - just activate it and be on your way.
No in this case with so many trains and some long-distance trains I think the pass IMO is a no-brainer - mainly because of the 20% discount special.
No in this case with so many trains and some long-distance trains I think the pass IMO is a no-brainer - mainly because of the 20% discount special.
Oct 12th, 2013, 05:19 AM
#46
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PalenQ: "IMO lose so much flexibility - again hopping any train - including right from the airport - when landing it's nice to take the next train not some train you've booked in stone for a discount but since it is non-changeable you have to leave a ot of fudge factor time in for late planes"
I don't think you're actually reading or understanding any of my suggestions, PalenQ. I did NOT recommend an advance-sale, train-specific ticket from the airport, and you should NOT be confusing the situation by trying to convince her otherwise.
The OP CAN hop on the next train or any train she wishes at the airport, at any time of the day, with the full-price ticket I suggested, just like she would with the railpass. If the flight is delayed 24 hours, or even 3 days, she doesn't lose a penny because she buys it at the airport when she's ready to go.
I don't think you're actually reading or understanding any of my suggestions, PalenQ. I did NOT recommend an advance-sale, train-specific ticket from the airport, and you should NOT be confusing the situation by trying to convince her otherwise.
The OP CAN hop on the next train or any train she wishes at the airport, at any time of the day, with the full-price ticket I suggested, just like she would with the railpass. If the flight is delayed 24 hours, or even 3 days, she doesn't lose a penny because she buys it at the airport when she's ready to go.
Oct 12th, 2013, 07:15 AM
#47
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OK russ - my lapse - so total how much can the OPO save with your plethora of different tickets over a pass at 23 euros a day and what freedom will they lose?
To me it's a no-brainer but perhaps my brain can't wrap around why saving a few euros overall if any means being restricted to say regional trains, etc.
And you tireless tracking down of various fares is impressive and laudable - takes time but also presents a point of how simple the pass is - nothing else needed just buy and show up - I do not see any huge savings over 23 euros a day p.p. - what exactly will they save total over the pass at 23 euros/day?
contrast this versus what they will lose?
To me it's a no-brainer but perhaps my brain can't wrap around why saving a few euros overall if any means being restricted to say regional trains, etc.
And you tireless tracking down of various fares is impressive and laudable - takes time but also presents a point of how simple the pass is - nothing else needed just buy and show up - I do not see any huge savings over 23 euros a day p.p. - what exactly will they save total over the pass at 23 euros/day?
contrast this versus what they will lose?
Oct 12th, 2013, 07:19 AM
#48
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OK I se you say railpasses would cost $100+ more than alternatives - hard to imagine at 23 euros a day for unlimited train travel but if so a no-brainer too - too much to digest for me - perhaps OP can.
railpases would cost a total of 320 euros - so if you say $100+ more that means all the costs of travel sans pass would be 180 euros total for both? If so a no-brainer!
railpases would cost a total of 320 euros - so if you say $100+ more that means all the costs of travel sans pass would be 180 euros total for both? If so a no-brainer!
Oct 12th, 2013, 10:21 AM
#49
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"OK russ - my lapse - so total how much can the OPO save with your plethora of different tickets over a pass at 23 euros a day and what freedom will they lose?"
Like I said, if they actually travel 7 days on different sorts of tickets, and make sensible daytrips on two of those days closer to Nuremberg, and if they don't attempt an ill-advised daytrip from Nuremberg to Salzburg, they'll save $100+. "Freedom" lost? Again, the plan involves one compromise on the ideal train equipment - using the RE train on the Munich outing instead of the IC or ICE. The other trains they might take are the same trains they'd use with a railpass. They would also have to pin down a time for the trip from Nuremberg to Frankfurt at the end (savings fare ticket.)
"To me it's a no-brainer but perhaps my brain can't wrap around why saving a few euros overall if any means being restricted to say regional trains, etc."
Again, they are saving not a few € but $100 or so by taking ONE regional train outing to Munich; if she doesn't want to use the RE, she can spend the extra $100 for the railpass instead. IC/ICE trains don't go everywhere. The other regional train trips I've suggested would have to be done by regional train anyway, or in the case of the Regensburg trip, the choice of ICE would save them only 7 minutes time, and it's a short trip anyway.
"railpases would cost a total of 320 euros - so if you say $100+ more that means all the costs of travel sans pass would be 180 euros total for both?"
NO. You can't subtract $100 from 320€ and come up with 180€ - $100 is only 74€ - so maybe 246€ instead. You are confusing apples with oranges in your math. Let's do it in dollars. The 7-day pass I see at Rick Steves is $446, but let's use your figure of $320€ for the pass = $434. The ticket total for 5 days amounts to 220€ ($298.) I added two more local outings at 16.80€/day for two (this is somewhat arbitrary but the OP has no other specific, doable outings in mind.) so that brings the total for 7 travel days to 253€ ($343.) So it's $343 for tickets vs. the $446 pass price I found - $103 more for the pass - or with your price, $343 for tickets vs $434 - $91 more for the pass price you are using. (And by the way, if in fact the OP doesn't do one or both of the two undetermined possible outings that come with the pass, there is no refund for those travel days.)
You keep repeating the 23€/person/day average figure. So if you prefer to understand the difference in this way, do the math. $343 for total for tickets for two = 253€, divided by 7 days = 36€/day for two, divided by two persons = 18€/person/day.
Like I said, if they actually travel 7 days on different sorts of tickets, and make sensible daytrips on two of those days closer to Nuremberg, and if they don't attempt an ill-advised daytrip from Nuremberg to Salzburg, they'll save $100+. "Freedom" lost? Again, the plan involves one compromise on the ideal train equipment - using the RE train on the Munich outing instead of the IC or ICE. The other trains they might take are the same trains they'd use with a railpass. They would also have to pin down a time for the trip from Nuremberg to Frankfurt at the end (savings fare ticket.)
"To me it's a no-brainer but perhaps my brain can't wrap around why saving a few euros overall if any means being restricted to say regional trains, etc."
Again, they are saving not a few € but $100 or so by taking ONE regional train outing to Munich; if she doesn't want to use the RE, she can spend the extra $100 for the railpass instead. IC/ICE trains don't go everywhere. The other regional train trips I've suggested would have to be done by regional train anyway, or in the case of the Regensburg trip, the choice of ICE would save them only 7 minutes time, and it's a short trip anyway.
"railpases would cost a total of 320 euros - so if you say $100+ more that means all the costs of travel sans pass would be 180 euros total for both?"
NO. You can't subtract $100 from 320€ and come up with 180€ - $100 is only 74€ - so maybe 246€ instead. You are confusing apples with oranges in your math. Let's do it in dollars. The 7-day pass I see at Rick Steves is $446, but let's use your figure of $320€ for the pass = $434. The ticket total for 5 days amounts to 220€ ($298.) I added two more local outings at 16.80€/day for two (this is somewhat arbitrary but the OP has no other specific, doable outings in mind.) so that brings the total for 7 travel days to 253€ ($343.) So it's $343 for tickets vs. the $446 pass price I found - $103 more for the pass - or with your price, $343 for tickets vs $434 - $91 more for the pass price you are using. (And by the way, if in fact the OP doesn't do one or both of the two undetermined possible outings that come with the pass, there is no refund for those travel days.)
You keep repeating the 23€/person/day average figure. So if you prefer to understand the difference in this way, do the math. $343 for total for tickets for two = 253€, divided by 7 days = 36€/day for two, divided by two persons = 18€/person/day.
Oct 12th, 2013, 07:07 PM
#50
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Russ and PalenQ - I agree that the pass would be easier and at $421 from bahn.de it's a pretty good deal. This is a 7-day "special" twin pass although we would use it only 6 days, averaging just over $70 per day or $35 per day pp. However, DH is quite keen on saving whatever amount we can, so the debate continues here too. I'm open to corrections in pricing/math, but here are my calculations for the mix of tickets and passes that we might consider, all prices for two adults traveling together: (Prices gathered 24 hours ago - may have changed by now)
Dec. 5 - Frankfurt-Nuremberg - ICE 2nd - 61 euro
Dec. 7 (Saturday) Nuremberg - Bamburg/return - VGN 16.80 euro
Dec. 8 (Sunday) Nuremberg - Dinklesbeuhl/return - free with the VGN used on Saturday - also local transport included
Dec. 10 - Nuremberg - Munich (ICE 1st)- 39 euro
Dec. 10 - Munich - Nuremberg RE 2nd - 26 euro (Bayern ticket)
OR - Munich - Nuremberg ICE 1st - 39 euro (tempting!)
Dec. 11 - Nuremberg - Regensburg/return - 26 euro (Bayern)
Dec. 12 - Nuremberg - Frankfurt Hbf - ICE 2nd - 49 euro
OR - Nuremberg - Frankfurt Hbf - ICE 1st - 39 euro (this train is earlier than we like, but price might be worth the effort)
Totals for these trips range between 217.80 and 220.80 euro. Using 1.35 for currency conversion, that makes the totals between $294.03 and $298.08 compared to the 7-day pass @$421, leaving differences of $126.97 and $122.92.
Knowing DH, we'll probably go with the individual tickets/passes rather than the more simple rail pass. The savings would probably pay for two long-ish taxi rides in Nuremberg.
Thanks again to you both for all your input - and do feel free to correct/question my figures. With 3 heads working on this, we're sure to get it right!
Dec. 5 - Frankfurt-Nuremberg - ICE 2nd - 61 euro
Dec. 7 (Saturday) Nuremberg - Bamburg/return - VGN 16.80 euro
Dec. 8 (Sunday) Nuremberg - Dinklesbeuhl/return - free with the VGN used on Saturday - also local transport included
Dec. 10 - Nuremberg - Munich (ICE 1st)- 39 euro
Dec. 10 - Munich - Nuremberg RE 2nd - 26 euro (Bayern ticket)
OR - Munich - Nuremberg ICE 1st - 39 euro (tempting!)
Dec. 11 - Nuremberg - Regensburg/return - 26 euro (Bayern)
Dec. 12 - Nuremberg - Frankfurt Hbf - ICE 2nd - 49 euro
OR - Nuremberg - Frankfurt Hbf - ICE 1st - 39 euro (this train is earlier than we like, but price might be worth the effort)
Totals for these trips range between 217.80 and 220.80 euro. Using 1.35 for currency conversion, that makes the totals between $294.03 and $298.08 compared to the 7-day pass @$421, leaving differences of $126.97 and $122.92.
Knowing DH, we'll probably go with the individual tickets/passes rather than the more simple rail pass. The savings would probably pay for two long-ish taxi rides in Nuremberg.
Thanks again to you both for all your input - and do feel free to correct/question my figures. With 3 heads working on this, we're sure to get it right!
Oct 12th, 2013, 09:08 PM
#51
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"Dec. 5 - Frankfurt-Nuremberg - ICE 2nd - 61 euro"
Advise against this ticket. You may need to forfeit it if you have flight or other delays. Pay the 112€ for a full price ticket bought once you arrive at the FRA train station.
"Dec. 8 (Sunday) Nuremberg - Dinklesbeuhl/return - free with the VGN used on Saturday - also local transport included"
This will be free only if you use the standard train + bus connection each way - 1:44 minutes each way. The special train between Dombühl and Dinkelsbühl is not included with the VGN ticket. Consider other destinations that are less arduous. The adorable old walled wine/artist town of Iphofen, and Bad Windsheim's (open air museum, terrific) are both wonderful and 45-55 minutes from Nuremberg by train. Transport to both would be free on Sunday with your Saturday VGN ticket.
http://vgn.de/ib/site/documents/imag...y=90&Confirm=1
http://www.stripes.com/military-life...useum-1.102354
Dec 10: If you buy the Bayern ticket (26€) in one direction, you can travel for free in the other direction too. It's a daypass. I'd suggest the 9:10 departure. For the ICE trains, I see no 39€ price for 2 to Munich - there is a 29€ price for 2 at 9:02, however. Trips before that hour are 59€+ for two one way. (Didn't check the return ICE trips.) Remember that these discount prices lock in your trains. The Bayern ticket does not - you can use any weekday train after 9 am.
The rest sounds about right.
Advise against this ticket. You may need to forfeit it if you have flight or other delays. Pay the 112€ for a full price ticket bought once you arrive at the FRA train station.
"Dec. 8 (Sunday) Nuremberg - Dinklesbeuhl/return - free with the VGN used on Saturday - also local transport included"
This will be free only if you use the standard train + bus connection each way - 1:44 minutes each way. The special train between Dombühl and Dinkelsbühl is not included with the VGN ticket. Consider other destinations that are less arduous. The adorable old walled wine/artist town of Iphofen, and Bad Windsheim's (open air museum, terrific) are both wonderful and 45-55 minutes from Nuremberg by train. Transport to both would be free on Sunday with your Saturday VGN ticket.
http://vgn.de/ib/site/documents/imag...y=90&Confirm=1
http://www.stripes.com/military-life...useum-1.102354
Dec 10: If you buy the Bayern ticket (26€) in one direction, you can travel for free in the other direction too. It's a daypass. I'd suggest the 9:10 departure. For the ICE trains, I see no 39€ price for 2 to Munich - there is a 29€ price for 2 at 9:02, however. Trips before that hour are 59€+ for two one way. (Didn't check the return ICE trips.) Remember that these discount prices lock in your trains. The Bayern ticket does not - you can use any weekday train after 9 am.
The rest sounds about right.
Oct 13th, 2013, 04:21 PM
#53
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Ok, yeah, we spent more money than we could/should have but it's done. I ordered the 7-day twin pass from RailEurope since I could not get it to show up on DB website. DH surprised me with his choice. I would have bet the farm that he would go for Russ's itinerary in order to save money but his thoughts were that since we're "golden seniors" with a few health concerns that perhpas less stress and complete flexibility would be the better route. I want to, again, thank Russ and PalenQ, along with other posters, for your time and thoughts. I've learned a lot from each of you and I do appreciate it. I'll probably be back with further questions as trip time nears.
Kay
Kay
