MorganB's French Rail SNCF Booking guide version 2
Larry: I'm so computer illiterate i don't know how to get the URL or whatever that long thing folks give that you click on and the thread pops up. This is the title of MorganB's 2nd version of SNCF ticketing - his first one grew into a long informative posting so i think he's distilled it in number 2.
No i don't think there's anyway to keep others from posting and the only solution to keep it pure so to say, not that others wouldn't often contribute valuable things, would be to recopy and make a new posting, deleting what you didn't want.
As for the Lander coverage i was only quoting the mag and they at times have given incorrect info on passes that i knew to be not accurate. But here's how they describe the Lander Tageskarte:
"All German Lander (regions) now have a Tageskarte (day railpass) with similar conditions, being available in 2nd class Mondays-Sundays. The weekday "after 09:00 has been abolished. Group tickets (usually called Gruppenkarte) are valid for up to five people traveling together on S-Bahn, IRE, RB, RE and Se locals trains run by DB Regio. Some passes cover several Lander. The pass may allow travel in private railway services funded by the Lander, but holders are highly recommended to check before boarding. Several Lander now have a single person at a reduced rate. All cost 2 euros more if bought from a manned ticket office. Users of day railpasses, such as the Schones Wochemende and lander passes must now write the names of all users on the passes. Photo ID may also be requested to prove that the correct people are using them."
Thus i construed it didn't cover municipal U-Bahns, trams, buses, etc. because it didn't mention them, but again they are at times wrong in my experience.

Just for the record, www.bayern-takt.de has an excellant explanation of the validity of the Bayern ticket. You can choose to read the site in English.

It says, "Both [Bayern and Bayern single] tickets are valid from Monday to Friday from 9 am to 3 am on the following day, and on Saturdays and Sundays and all days that are holidays in the whole of Bavaria from midnight right through to 3 am the following day.

You can travel on the ticket second class on all regional trains, i.e. DB Regio AG, Bayerische Oberlandbahn [BOB], ALEX [Allgäu Express], Erfurter Bahn, Hessische Landesbahn and Länderbahn on Bavarian lines, as well as all the means of transport provided by MVV [Munich], AVV [Augsburg], VVM [Mainfranken, Würzburg], RVV [Regensburg], VAB [Bayerischen Untermain] and VGN [Nürnberg](S-Bahn, underground, tram and bus) and the regional buses from OVF, RBO, RVO, RVA, KOB and RBS. Please ask your bus driver for details.

Both tickets are valid to Ulm, Kufstein and Salzburg and on the entire route of the Außerfernbahn from Garmisch-Partenkirchen via Reutte (Tirol) to Kempten (Allgäu) and from Memmingen to Lindau via Kißlegg (Baden-Württemberg)."

Comments in [] were mine. RVO and RVA are Regional Verkehr Oberbayern and RV Allgäu, which together run all the buses along the Alps on the southern border of Bavaria. You could use the train from Munich to Garmisch-Partenkirchen, then the bus to Linderhof, all with a Bayern Ticket.

So far every Land Nahverkehr website I have checked has had a list of all the local transit district that accept the Land ticket for all means of transport including U-bahn and trams (if they have them) and buses. The list seems pretty complete, but I have not done an exhaustive search for exceptions. Baden-Württemberg does say that their ticket is accepted in MOST transit districts. B-W also says that in the Kalsruhe VV (KVV), the Rhein-Nectar VV (VRN), and the Donau-Iller VV (DING), the B-W ticket is only valid within the part of the VV that lies in B-W. Parts of KVV and VRN, for example, lie across the Rhein in Rhineland-Pfalz. The B-W ticket is not valid there, except for the short stretch from Mannheim to Karlsruhe on the left bank through Ludwigshafen, Germersheim, and Wörth.

However, the DB website does NOT specifically say that the Schönes-wochenende ticket is valid in transit districts. The full explanation is on the German language side. My best translation is,

"The tickets is valid for as many trips as you like in trains of the product class C (IRE, RE, RB, S, with the exception of the InterRegio), as well as trips that don’t take place exclusively in the network of a transport/tariff district or a transport company. Inside of transport/tariff districts and transport companies and in trains of other enterprises that do not belong to the Deutsche Bahn, the Schönes-Wochenende Ticket is only valid then, when it is recognized by the particular transport/tariff district, the transport company, or the concerned enterprise."

Thus, you can travel across German and pass through or into a VV, but for travel entirely inside the VV, you can only use the S-W ticket if the distict accepts it.

Maybe that is why the magazine declined to say the ticket was accepted for U-bahn, trans, and buses of the VVs.

I have checked a few transit districts, like Munich VV, and so far they all accept the S-W ticket.

Sorry it took me so long to get back into the discussion. I greatly appreciate the wealth of information that you have all provided especially Larry and Russ. To clarify our itinerary there are 3 adults in our party and we are traveling as follows:
Thursday - Munich to Rothenburg
Saturday - Rothenburg to Heidelberg
Sunday - Heidelberg to Bacharach
Tuesday - Bacharach to Cologne
Wednesday - Cologne to Paris
Based on the information you have provided we should be able to use the Happy Weekend ticket for the Rothenburg to Heidelberg and Heidelberg to Bacharach legs. When we go from Munich to Rothenburg we are actually going from Munich to Fussen to tour Neuschwanstein Castle and then from Fussen to Rothenburg. I think we will want to start early that day so rather than wait till 9:00 we may just buy p-2-p tickets from Munich to Fussen and then use the Lander ticket from Fussen to Rothenburg. For the Bacharach to Cologne leg we will use the Lander ticket from Bacharach to Bonn and then buy p-2-p tickets from Bonn to Cologne. We are taking the Thalys train from Cologne to Paris. This is all great information which will result in some significant savings for us.
I do have a couple of other questions. I checked on bahn.de and it says the Happy Weekend tickets for the Saturday and Sunday legs are available and I can order them. I am thinking primarily about the Rothenburg to Heidelberg leg. I am pretty sure we would like to take the 9:00 train. Is there any reason to order them online or would you buy then at Rothenburg or possibly Munich? Also, do you have any advice or recommendation about purchasing seat reservations for any of these trips.
Thanks again for all the great information.

In the first place, Schönes-Wochenende and Länder tickets are only valid on regional trains, and regional trains don't have reserved seats, so that should solve that question.

Depending on how early you want to leave Munich, you might not have to buy p-2-p tickets all the way to Fuessen, only to the first stop the train makes after 9:00 AM. After that the Bayern ticket will be valid. If you leave on the 8:52 train, you only need tickets to Geltendorf, which is the all zones, partner MVV day ticket for 17 EUR for everyone.

PalQ,

I found MorgenB's posting. It was done all at once followed by a lot of comments. However, when I post on German travel, I want something that I can work on over a period of time, revise as I want, and not have it fragmented.

So, I have taken out a GeoCities website which I will devote to getting the best deals (or just surviving) traveling in Germany. I don't want to release it until I have a major part of the work done, but I will let you know.

LarryC - thanks for update. You could work on the GeoCities thing and then copy and paste appropriate parts of it when postings warrant it here - an impressive endeavor that i know you enjoy, much like i do when talking about train travel in general. Good luck and many are appreciative.

Hi there,
I'm leaving tomorrow night and just wanted to say that this was a really helpful thread (expecially the tip about buying the Bavarian Lander Ticket at the FRA airport and then two one-way tickets to Kahl--genius).

I jsut wanted to clarify: when you buy these Lander tickets from the machine, do they have anything to do with the destination? Most tickets say where you're leaving from and where you're going. Is it just a pass you show to the conductor once you get on the train? Also, do you need to validate them in the machines (I can't remember if Germany has the same validation system that France does). If so, do I need to get off the train at Kahl to validate the Bavarian ticket, or can I do it in Frankfut? Similar question for using it to ride the Munich public transit system---what do you do with it? Is it like Berlin and Vienna where there are no turnstiles, only occasional policeman?

Thanks!

>I jsut wanted to clarify: when you buy these Lander tickets from the machine, do they have anything to do with the destination?

No, only with the area of validity (Bavaria, RLP et cetera). The ticket machines usually have a separate button for a Länder ticket and for the SW ticket.

>Most tickets say where you're leaving from and where you're going. Is it just a pass you show to the conductor once you get on the train?

Yes.

>Also, do you need to validate them in the machines (I can't remember if Germany has the same validation system that France does).

No to both. The local transit systems (trams, subways etc) require you to validate the tickets, but not the railways. If you buy the Länder or SW tickets from the machines of the local transit and not from the DB machines you will need to validate them.

>If so, do I need to get off the train at Kahl to validate the Bavarian ticket, or can I do it in Frankfut?

As you won't be able to buy a Bavaria ticket from the local transit machine in Frankfurt (only from the DB machine) it will already come out validated. No need to get out in Kahl.

> Similar question for using it to ride the Munich public transit system---what do you do with it? Is it like Berlin and Vienna where there are no turnstiles, only occasional policeman?

Exactly the same. You make sure beforehand that you have a ticket by the time you enter the tram/bus/subway, and just go on in.

In a station in Frankfurt, in addition to the RMV ticket machines, you should see two kinds of Bahn ticket machines (http://www.bahn.de/-S:-ptVOR9:eia7zt.../nta/nta.shtml). The blue and white machines are for the local transport (Nahverkehr) in the state of Hesse. You should be able to purchase the tickets to Kahl at one of these machines. On the left side is a list of stations followed by a 4 digit code. First, press one of the buttons in the two columns (lower right) for a single adult ticket. I think it is the top, left button. Then you enter the code on the keypad and it should show you the price of a ticket for one person. You put the money in the slots and it prints a ticket. You can do that two times for two tickets, or when it first shows you the price, you can press the green '+' button and enter the code again. Then it will show you the price for two people and print a ticket for two. There is no longer a price advantage for two people traveling together on point-point tickets, so it doesn't matter how you do it. You can just as easily purchase these tickets at a counter.

You can also purchase a Hes3en Ticket, the Land ticket for Hesse, at one of these Nahverkehr machines, but I don't think it will offer a Bayern Ticket. For that you need to find one of the red/white/blue Bahn machines. These machines are touch screen and can be switched to English by touching the British flag on the screen. The opening screen should have a touch pad (third down, right column, I believe) for Länder tickets. I assume when you touch it, it will switch to a screen with buttons for the individual Länder. It will ask you for the date. Remember, the Bayern ticket can be used anytime on weekends, but only after 9 AM on weekdays.

When purchasing a ticket from a machine using a credit card (if they still take American cards. You will need a PIN), if you put the card in right away, it will be returned. No problem. You have to wait until it displays the ticket price before it will take your card. The machine will print two items, first a receipt for the CC, then the ticket. Don't forget the ticket.

You can also purchase a Bayern Ticket at the ticket counter, but they charge you an extra €2.

The ticket will say nothing about destination, but it is date specific. It will probably have a place for you to sign, so that you cannot sell it to someone else when you are through with it. It should not have to be cancelled (entwerten), just keep it until a conductor asks to see it.

In the Munich metro system, most tickets must be cancelled before boarding the conveyance. You can identify those tickets that have to be cancelled by the words "Hier entwerten" on one edge along with an arrow pointing to how the ticket is inserted into the machine. Best policy: whenever you see "Hier Entwerten" on a ticket, look for a machine to cancell it. Make sure the words are facing up when you cancell it. There are cancelling machines in the U/S-Bahn stations as you go to the platform and on the streetcars. The driver will handle that on the buses.

After reading on the webpage I gave you the description for using the local ticket machine, I think you might enter the destination code first, then press the button for ticket type (Einzelfahrkarte is a single trip ticket).

The easiest thing to do is to call BudgetEuropeTravel.com. They are extremely knowledgeable and helpful, and will patiently answer your questions at no charge. If you purchase tickets/passes through them, it's with a minimal Shipping and Handling fee to get paper tickets mailed to you. I highly recommend them.
>-

>The driver will handle that on the buses.

Actually not, at least not on city buses (unless something changed in the last year or two). There are cancelling machines in the bus, just like in trams. On U- and S-Bahn the same cancelling machines are positioned right in the entrance to the platform.

I know that at least in Munich, the regulations require that you enter the bus by the front door and show the driver your ticket. It seems to me that I have had to do that other places as well. If you buy a ticket from a driver, it comes per-stamped.

Munich does this so they don't have to have transit police check tickets on the bus.

I have seen buses with side doors, but they seem to only open for exit. I guess it is possible for the side door to open for entrance and there to be a cancelling machine at the door; I've just never seen one.

Thanks, everyone. I've printed out your answers so I can do everything correctly when I get there.

Oh wait, one last question.

I was just a bit confused about the Schones Wochenende tickets. Are they good for only one full day, or does the same ticket cover both Saturday and Sunday? (when people say 3am the next day, I'm never sure exactly which day that means).

My itinerary (with my mom) is to get to the Frankfurt airport Saturday morning, immediately take the train to Wurzburg, spend the rest of Saturday there, then take a day trip to Rothenburg on Sunday, and leave for Bamberg Monday afternoon. So, should I do the Saturday Bayern Ticket plus two one-way FRA--Kahl, and a Sunday Lander ticket (a one-way from Wurzburg to Ro'burg costs 10 euros, which would add up to 40 euros for the day)? Or, does a Schones Wochenende ticket cover the entire thing?

Sorry if I'm a little slow. German trains are mind-boggling, yet great.

Also (I'm on a roll here), I know France has an under 26 discount. Does Germany have that? And if so, does that throw a spanner into the whole works?

get a rail pass it'll save you money

If you buy a Schönes-Wochenende Ticket on Friday for Saturday, it is valid from midnight, Saturday morning, all day Saturday, until 3 AM Sunday morning. Likewise, a S-W Ticket purchased for Sunday would be valid until 3 AM on Monday morning.

If you are going to Rothenburg odT for a day trip, your best bet is another Bayern Ticket for €25. One S-W Ticket does not cover both weekend days.

A one way ticket to Bamberg costs €15,50 pP, so, again, a €25 Bayern Ticket will save you a few Euro on Monday.

Except for the German Rail Youth pass, I don't think there are under 26 deals anywhere in Germany. However, in most cases all children under 15 travel free with their parents. I don't think any other country does that.

Thanks again, Larry. Now I think I'm all clear. The only thing I'm worrying about now is the rain, but there's nothing I can do about that.

Off to the airport soon...