kipp

Hi,

First of all, I just wanted to thank everyone for their great comments on this board! You are all extremely helpful!

I am planning a trip to France in the first week of October, I wanted to here other members comments on whether or not my plans sound like a decent start for a first trip to France (I have actually been before when I was 5 years old, but I don't remember much, and I'm travelling with my girlfriend, who has never been to France at all).

So here goes:

I already have plane tickets purchased, arriving in Paris early morning on October 2nd, and leaving Nice on October 11th. That leaves 9 days of actual sightseeing (2nd - 10th). Here are my tentative plans, and please chime in with any suggestions.

Oh, and in case you are wondering why I have decided not to rent a car, it is because we are both only 23 years old, and the yound driver surcharge literally doubles the cost of the car (makes it around $400 before gas). Otherwise, I would probably be planning to pick up a car in Provence.

Note that I plan on using Avignon as a base in Western Provence, and Nice as a base for the Cote D'azur portion. I can't really think of a better way to do it since we are stuck to taking the train.

Days 1,2 and 3 - Paris. Not sure where we're staying. I might use priceline to get a hotel, because Paris hotels are extremely expensive (unless you folks have better places to find a good hotel in Paris for cheap).

Day 4 - Take TGV to Avignon in the morning.
Spend the day sightseeing in Avignon, and we will probably stay in the Clarion Cloitre St. Louis (seems like a decent hotel, close to the Avignon Centre train station, which is a plus).

Day 5 - Take a day trip via train to Nimes from Avignon.

Day 6 - Take a day trip via train to Arles from Avignon.

Day 7 - Take the TGV from Avignon to Nice in the morning. Spend day 7 sightseeing, etc. in Nice. In Nice, we'll probably also get a hotel through priceline, unless any of you have better suggestions on a decent hotel that's not too expensive.

Day 8 - Take a day trip via train west to Cannes from Nice.

Day 9 - Take a day trip via train east to Monaco from Nice.

Leave from Nice on morning of Day 10 (October 11th).

Most of all, I'm trying to make this trip as easy as possible but filled with a decent amount of sightseeing, but not so much that I'll be taking a million trains a day. I know that smaller towns are great and everything, but it's clearly not an option since I can't take a car, and I really think that with the time I have available, this ought to be enough. Also, Paris is a must. Provence is beautiful, but we really want to see the sights in Paris, but I don't want to spend a whole week there.

Sorry for such a long post. Any help is much appreciated.

Thanks,

Kipp

gracieb

Kipp,
Regarding the car - you were quoting for a 3 day rental? I took basically the same trip and driving around the small villages and towns of Provence was such a highlight of the trip (those not accessible by train). You can easily without the car in Nice and Cannes. We picked up in Avignon and returned in Cannes and took the train to Nice.
This website will give you great ideas on hotels. Just do a search and read. I found the Priceline hotels (listed on BiddingForTravel.com) and considered booking one in the Opera area. When I was checking, it was quite a deal. After my first trip to Paris I was amazed and how small and walkable it is, as long as you are staying within a few blocks of the Seine. There are so many options in so many areas, it's hard to go wrong. When I go back, I'll probably look for a 2 or 3 star near Blvd Michel in St. Germain.
Enjoy the planning - it's one of the best parts of the trip. But, do think about a rental car even with the younger driver surcharge.

kipp

The car was actually for 6 days. To me, It's just too easy to take the train when the total cost of trains for 2 people (aside from the Paris to Avignon trip, which I would have to do even if I rented a car) is about $150, versus $400 before gas for a 6-day rental. I mean, I know it's better to rent a car, but to some degree, I have to weigh the costs and benefits. I'm also not spending enough time in the western Provence area that it will probably matter that much either, since I'm giving about a day each to the three main cities (Avignon, Nimes, and Arles). Everyone tells me to avoid Marseilles, which I will do, happily.

gracieb

I suppose my point was, the best part of Provence for me was seeing what was outside of the cities you mentioned. The rental car for us was $150 for 3 days (I know you will have a surcharge) but we experienced the beauty of the hillside villages outside of Avignon and Cannes/Nice as well. The train from Cannes to Nice was 6.5 Euros each.
Just my opinion, but you seem happy with yours. Enjoy the trip!

Underhill

You have planned your itinerary very well--clearly you did all the right research. You'll be able to see a fair amount of the area around Nice by train and bus (such as up to St-Paul-de-Vence) and not have to pay for parking in Nice.

As for hotels, by October the rates in Nice begin to drop. Do a Google for discount hotel sites for Nice--there are quite a few, and you can often get very good rates hotels that time of the year. What's your budget? One hotel you might look at is the Mercure Promenade des Anglais, with views on the Mediterranean.

For Paris, definitely get a hotel locked in ASAP. Both September and October are pretty much high season because of various shows. One hotel consistently recommended here is the Bonaparte, a 2* in the St-Germain-des-Prés area, and that might suit your budget.

StCirq

kipp:

It sounds as though you have a nice trip shaping up here. Here's a tip for the TGV trains between Paris and Avignon, in case you don't already know this: On the www.sncf.com site (French rail site), click on reservations and look at the top left of the screen where the PREM's fares are listed. It's almost always possible to get a 25- or 30-euro PREM's fare on that route, which will save youj a lot compared to the normal cost - maybe even enough that you could spring for a 3-day car rental, which I also would recommend so you can get to the Pont du Gard, St-Rémy, and other lovely villages.
I've never used Priceline for hotels in Paris, and I've heard that Paris isn't a prime location for good deals onPriceline hotels, but it's certainly worth a try. Also search this board, because there are plenty of threads on budget hotels in Paris, including rooms at the Hospital St-Dieu!
Anyway, it seems you've put some work into this itinerary, and it looks good to me, car or no car.

gracieb

Underhill's suggestion for hotel would be in a perfect location! Our first meal in Paris was at the Cafe Bonaparte and we enjoyed it thoroughly (eating at the sidewalk cafe).

JoeG

kipp,

Here's my $0.02 worth. Spend your time in Paris, TGV to Avignon, bite the bullet and rent a car in Avignon, figure out a decent place to base out side of Avignon for the rest of your stay and skip the Nice/Cannes/Monaco portion of the trip.

If you can drive to Nice and drop off the car at the airport - do that. If your fight leaves early and you can't drop the car off in Nice, return the car to Avignon the day before you leave, train to Nice and spent the night near the airport. Or just train to Nice and depart from airport the same day if that works out.

In early October, the weather will be nice, the roads won't be congested and driving around Provence will be a blast. You will waste too much time working around train schedules. By the time you add up all the fares there won't be a significant savings.

If you are resigned to not having a car, you have done a good job of working out a doable itinerary, I would skip the Nice/Cannes/Monaco part, but if you're game, go for it.

JoeG

kipp

Thanks for the tips! It feels good to know that you all think I have a decent itinerary planned. I actually thought about splurging on renting the car simply based on the fact that I got a good airfare price (It was $528 round trip per person, New York - Paris on the way there, Nice - New York on the way back).

Well, I suppose my budget for Hotels is really the most flexible thing (Don't get me wrong, I'm not going to stay at La Mirande in Avignon if I'm going to be sightseeing all day. That hotel is too beautiful to be wasted. If you haven't seen the pictures online, go to their website). One thing that I have found to be quite different between Europe and the U.S. is that hotels are a bit more hit-or-miss than often is the case in the United States. Perhaps that's just from my experience. To me, it's almost as if there are more chain hotels in the United States to choose from at the varying quality levels, which ultimately translates to a slightly better value (think economies of scale, to a degree), but I could easily be wrong.

The dollar is so weak right now it's simply painful to translate rates I see online. On tripadvisor, it looks like the Mercure Grimaldi in Nice has gotten excellent reviews and is known to be a hotel available through priceline (I think), so that will probably be the location of choice for the Nice base. I'll take some time to look into the Paris hotel.

As for the Prems rate, That's totally what I was planning, but thanks for the heads up. I've been fishing around on voyages-sncf.com for a while now, so I'm getting a feel for the rates, etc.

I think that there is no question that I still want to go to Nice. Even if there is less to see, it will be a relaxing way to end the trip, and I'm sure I'll enjoy the views, etc.

With respect to the car decision, Will I be in a position that I won't have enough to do in Arles and Nimes each for a day that I'll be upset I didn't have a car? I can see the need to have a car for a week in the Avignon area, simply because the train doesn't go everywhere, but other than that, I'm just not sure.

Thanks!

kipp

Oops... Looks like Le Grimaldi in Nice is definitely different from the Mercure Grimaldi (priceline). Same street, definitely different hotel. The Le Grimaldi sounds very nice based on reviews. I will have to look it up

gracieb

We enjoyed the Hotel Windsor in Nice very much.
I'd heard many people comment on Best Westerns in France (not on this board) so I was paying attention throughout our travels. Even in the US, Best Westerns aren't cookie-cutter. I was very pleased with the hotels associated with the Best Western chain in Paris, Nice and Cannes. Didn't go in, but they looked like they were nice hotels on their own with a known affiliation.
I can't imagine Provence without Gordes and Roussillon and Gourdon and St. Paul de Vence north of Cannes and Nice. The best part of Provence for me was driving around from village to village, seeing the countyside, etc. But, after several days in Paris, I was ready to be behind the wheel of a car. That made the trip for me, but that is my personal preference.
And no, I can't imagine "doing" Provence by only seeing Avignon, Nimes and Arles.

kipp

FWIW, I'm sure I'll be going back to Provence in several years. I am really using the trip as an opportunity to let myself and my girlfriend get a taste of France, and to potentially find a place that we could go back to for a week.(i.e., if we love western provence, we'll go back and spend a week a few years from now) For a young person, I consider myself well traveled (I've been to just over 30 countries due to the fact that I have been fortunate enough to have parents who took me around the world on vacation during my school years).

sandi

When taking the train on any given day regardless the direction, do ask about the day pass. This should allow you to get on/off a number of times along the route - you will then have the opportunity to visit various towns along the way.

kipp

Sandi,

That's a great idea! I do have a question about this, though. Most of the rates that I have seen on the SNCF website offer rates that are extremely cheap if purchased in advance (pretty much half price - don't know if it's because I'm under 25 or what), so I assume that I'll need to book most of my stuff in advance. That being said, I do suppose that since the travel is so cheap anyway between avignon and Arles, Nimes, and Nice to Cannes, Monaco, it might just be better to get day passes instead, to allow flexibility.

Good Call!

Sherrala

Kipp, my feeling is that a day in Nimes and a day in Arles are not days well spent. I really don't think you need a full day in either of those places, though they're both worth seeing, and you will wind up killing a lot of time that could have been better spent seeing some of the most beautiful villages you'll see anywhere. I'd probably try to find a way to rent the car, at least for a portion of the time. You're not going to need a full day in Cannes or Monaco either, and there are many lovely places to explore in that area. To me it would be a shame to be there and be so limited in what you can see.

Barb

kipp: I did almost this same trip last fall and used trains and buses. I stayed in a great little hotel in Paris, Hotel St. Jacques in the 5th on Rue des Ecoles, took the TGV to Lyon, then to Avignon where I based for 5 days. I took bus to Arles, St. Remy, Gordes, Roussillon (sp), train to Nice where I stayed at Flots d'Azure, right on the Promenade with fabulous view and only 71 E. From Nice I took the train to Monaco, Cannes, Antibes and the bus to St. Paul de Vence and Villefranche Sur Mer. So, it is totally possible and very easy to see lots of places using public transportation.

kipp

Barb,

good to hear that it worked out well for you. I think I'm going to forget about the car. I'm young, and I have plenty of trips to France ahead of me, so if I miss something, I will be back. Are buses tough to deal with? Are they on schedule? Where did you find bus schedules?

kipp

So I was just talking with a friend last night who lived in Marseille for about a year teaching English. He, like some of you suggested, said that Nimes and Arles should both be done in one day, and that I can then go see two other towns on the other free day (when we get to Avignon, I think I'm just going to stay there for that day). I'll also do the same for the Nice portion (that is, go west of Nice via train/bus for a day to a couple of towns, and east for a day to a couple of towns). As far as the other day in the Avignon area, does anyone have suggestions of a couple of towns to visit that offer both access by train or bus as well as several sights that both towns together would make a good day trip?

Thanks in advance.

Mariarosa

Hey kipp! It is really easy to move around Provence by buses, provided that you base yourself in Avignon. Buses are very inexpensive. The bus station is next to the train station in Avignon, a few minutes walk from the Cloitre St Louis hotel, where you ar planning to stay. The bus station has timetables - you can pick them up on your arrival day. I also posted timetables for last winter (March) and my itinerary in this thread:

http://www.fodors.com/forums/pgMessa...p;tid=34405810

I see that you are currently scheduling yourself to visit Arles on one day and Nimes on a second day. We spent the entire day in Arles, but our interests may be different than yours. There are quite a number of Roman ruins cute cafes/restaurants and shops to occupy an entire day. We also spent an entire day at the *very* interesting Les Baux. The bus to Les Baux leaves from Arles, so you may be able to do both Les Baux and Arles in one long day (they each take at least 4 hours to visit).

We combined Nimes with Uzes. Uzes was interesting and being outside of Provence, it had a different flavour/feel than the other provencal towns. However, it may be a little boring for a younger guy traveling by himself?

You can also take the bus to St. Remy - a lovely town that is only 45 minutes from Avignon. From St. Remy, you can walk a mile (easy walk) to the pre-Roman ruins of Glanum, another fascinating site. You can also take a bus to Villeneuve-les-Avignon, and visit the castle, the town, etc. So there are many things you could do in the 3 days in Avignon.

I visited Nice and Cannes many years ago and did not care for either and I would much rather spend my time in Provence. The beaches in Nice and Cannes are not nice and they are insanely crowded. But I think that you mentioned that you are a young guy traveling by yourself, so this *may* be a good place to party after more of a reflective part of the vacation.

Underhill

At the risk of sounding like a broken record, let me say again that the Riviera is part of Provence, not separate from it. It's just the coastal part of eastern Provence.

I agree about Cannes, but Antibes and the hill towns around Nice are wonderful to visit--and there's a lot to see and do in Nice itself. Juan-les-Pins has a fine beach and good nightlife.