Pronunciation of "lys"
Aug 18th, 2006, 10:33 AM
#1
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Pronunciation of "lys"
In France, to the best of my recollection, and in my Fr. dictionary, the "s" is pronounced; however, here in USA (and even last week in NOLA,where the fleur du lys abounds these days) I am constantly corrected (or smiled at indulgently) when I pronounce the "s". Pronouncing it is "irregular",but is correct as I understand it. Anyone?
Aug 18th, 2006, 10:41 AM
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The "s" is pronounced in French. I think you'll find little similarity between the French spoken in NOLA and that in France.
In Day by Day in America, Simone de Beauvoir is in New Orleans and decides to take a bus out in the country. As people are getting on the bus, she wonders what language they are speaking, as it certainly isn't English. Then, she realizes it is French.
The "s" is generally silent here. However, when someone corrects you (or smiles indulgently), you should feel free to correct them.
In Day by Day in America, Simone de Beauvoir is in New Orleans and decides to take a bus out in the country. As people are getting on the bus, she wonders what language they are speaking, as it certainly isn't English. Then, she realizes it is French.
The "s" is generally silent here. However, when someone corrects you (or smiles indulgently), you should feel free to correct them.
Aug 18th, 2006, 10:59 AM
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Where is NOLA? Is that New Orleans? If so, they pronounce lots of French words differently there, so they are correcting you based on how things are pronounced there. Which is accurate, that you should pronounce things the way local custom does, I guess. I never know how to pronounce things in New Orleans, as when I pronounce the words as they are in French, they aren't always even close to how they pronounce them there. Why is the fleur de lys abounding in New Orleans, though?
I don't think whether it sounds like "lit" is the reason or that it would be a funny phrase, as there are many French words that mean completely different things that are pronounced the same (ie, homonyms). In fact, because fleur de lit wouldn't make much sense would make it even less reason to have to pronounce it differently, as you wouldn't confuse it.
I don't think whether it sounds like "lit" is the reason or that it would be a funny phrase, as there are many French words that mean completely different things that are pronounced the same (ie, homonyms). In fact, because fleur de lit wouldn't make much sense would make it even less reason to have to pronounce it differently, as you wouldn't confuse it.
Aug 18th, 2006, 11:30 AM
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Thanks,everyone,for the validation for what I thought was correct.
Someone said that the fleur de lys has become the symbol for the reconstruction of New Orleans after Katrina. At any rate, it was everywhere, and I don't remember that from my other visit there though several years ago.
Someone said that the fleur de lys has become the symbol for the reconstruction of New Orleans after Katrina. At any rate, it was everywhere, and I don't remember that from my other visit there though several years ago.
Aug 18th, 2006, 12:40 PM
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In England, it's "lee", not that it's used in much other than heraldic/graphic contexts. If that's the same as Quebec and Louisiana, it rather suggests that it's the older pronunciation, which has changed in France. Just as the US often has older forms of English than we do.
Aug 18th, 2006, 09:12 PM
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The final 's' of <i>lis</i> (and its archaic spelling <i>lys</i
is pronounced in standard French. Americans—even those in NOLA—and the English, are very poor references for French pronunciation, no matter how indulgently they smile. I don't personally look upon the Québecois as references, either, given their accent (and since their accent is a somewhat fossilized version of earlier French pronunciation, it rather surprises me that they wouldn't pronounced the 's' as well).
In the past, French was much more phonetically spelled than today, so the 's' was pronounced in the past, too. It is true that final consonants are often silent in modern French, but there are exceptions, and <i>lys/lis</i> is among them. It's not a common word so it's easy to forget that the 's' is pronounced if one does not speak French regularly.
is pronounced in standard French. Americans—even those in NOLA—and the English, are very poor references for French pronunciation, no matter how indulgently they smile. I don't personally look upon the Québecois as references, either, given their accent (and since their accent is a somewhat fossilized version of earlier French pronunciation, it rather surprises me that they wouldn't pronounced the 's' as well).In the past, French was much more phonetically spelled than today, so the 's' was pronounced in the past, too. It is true that final consonants are often silent in modern French, but there are exceptions, and <i>lys/lis</i> is among them. It's not a common word so it's easy to forget that the 's' is pronounced if one does not speak French regularly.
Aug 19th, 2006, 05:48 AM
#15
One probable reason that the French prefer to pronounce the "S" of lys is to reduce the number of homonyms. "Lit" (bed) was also mentioned, but there is also "lie" (dregs).
A bigger complication for people trying to get a hold on French pronunciation is the word "plus" -- sometimes you pronounce the "S" and sometimes you don't. You pronounce it when you mean "plus" or "more" and you don't pronounce it when you mean "no more/anymore" (je n'en veux plus, il n'en a plus....)
A bigger complication for people trying to get a hold on French pronunciation is the word "plus" -- sometimes you pronounce the "S" and sometimes you don't. You pronounce it when you mean "plus" or "more" and you don't pronounce it when you mean "no more/anymore" (je n'en veux plus, il n'en a plus....)
Aug 19th, 2006, 09:00 AM
#18
Christina, the Fleur de Lis is all over New Orleans this football season because the Saints now have an outstanding quarterback..MY Drew Brees, formerly with the San Diego Chargers, a great running back...Reggie Bush (also from San Diego, via USC), and possibly soon a great linebacker...Donnie Edwards, currently a San Diego Charger. The Fleur de Lis is the Saints' symbol.
Geaux Saints!
Geaux Saints!
Aug 20th, 2006, 02:54 AM
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'Even native speakers make mistakes, as in Bruxelles or Auxerre.'
Yes, and when you are not a native speaker, often they want to correct you. I live in the village of Carlux - where we do NOT pronounce the X. But helpful French people who are not from the immediate area often tell me that in France they do pronounce the X. Yes, but we Carluciens don't!
Yes, and when you are not a native speaker, often they want to correct you. I live in the village of Carlux - where we do NOT pronounce the X. But helpful French people who are not from the immediate area often tell me that in France they do pronounce the X. Yes, but we Carluciens don't!
