Aduchamp1

To me uncrowded streets is no criterion to judge any city. It has nothing to do with the architecture, art, people, food, culture, museums, etc.

Over the years I have spent weeks in Barcelona. One day is not even a stopover.

So you should disregard my advice since we see the world differently.

newcomer1

We've been to both Spain and Portugal and loved both. I expected them to be similar, but they were not. We found the Spanish to be friendly but reserved in that "old world" style; the Portuguese (generally) were more like the Greeks, very open and friendly. The sights were very different, and you will be stuck by the beauty of the mosaics everywhere (even the streets were striking). Though both countries are on the euro, Portugal is much, much more reasonable (food, hotels, sights). Read my trip report (in two parts - Newcomer and Newcomer1). You should then plug in "Lisbon dining club", if you decide to go - you'll meet some wonderful people. In Feb. (or even April) I would chose Portugal over Croatia.

cmor

Thanks again for invaluable information. tptr - Maybe I didn't phrase my first post correctly, I'm not looking for an actual comparison of places, just sort of the "feel" of them. I've been reading the trip reports and have been to the library 3 times in the past few days, plus clicking on links to travel sites. Love to see quaint villages, ruins & remnants of past lives, lots of walking/hiking, beautiful scenery, castles. Like to travel by trains, if possible, and learn a little of the language before I go. Not really into glitzy nightlife, sitting in the sun tooo long, and only a little shopping (prefer to find one special thing as opposed to lots of so-so stuff)I'm a very easygoing and go-with-the-flow type. Thanks again - research continues!
Also regarding other posts, Barcelona was not my most favorite of the cities we visited, but it was still fun and had I known about all the info on this site back then, I may've had a different take on it. Thanks again!

tower

cmor:


In visiting Portugal (by car, mostly) this past month, both wife and I (having been to all of the European countries during the past 40 years, but never Portugal) now refer to the country as one
of "Europe's best kept secrets"...

Aside from several posters here, Portugal is rarely mentioned by any of our friends or other world travelers we have known over the decades. Even travel magazines have given it rather short shrift if anything.

Just had to see it for ourselves. Yes,indeed, Portugal can offer all of the elements you mention in your first paragraph above...and then some.

We were very pleasantly surprised as we visited Lisbon and vicinity, then drove to Arraiolos (Pousada), Evora, Marvao (Pousada), Belmonte (Pousada), Obidos, Nazare', Sintra and vicinity. Strongly suggest you rent a car...the best way to drink in the full senses of the country

Go...see it and enjoy!

Stu T.
(I will have my pix ready in a few days, maybe even a short report)

saige

After spending six weeks traveling on our own through Spain and Portugal my husband and I agree that Oporto, Sintra and Coimbra (visit the university library!)in Portugal are among the hidden treasures of our travels. The people we met were helpful and generous and happy to meet tourists who had taken the time to learn some Portuguese and to travel to more than just Lisbon. We drove and had no problems with the roads many of which are new, paid for by EU funding. BTW Portugal is relatively new to the EU and is in the process of repaying its debt as new member country.

Perhaps those who referenced the "dour" people are unfamiliar with the concept of Fado?

Whatever you decide to do, have a wonderful trip!

mari5

Reread "Saige" again. Wonderful and true comments. Portugal is fabulous, and a real treasure that a lot of people miss out on. The people smile and are friendly and helpful....the scenery is gorgeous. Lisbon is beautiful, and out the coast to Estoril, Cascais , Sintra etc is also. The other towns mentioned above are quite interesting.
Do lots of research and you'll find Portugal a wonderful place.

It's very hard to compare with Spain, though it is a neighbor. Not much alike in many ways...and WE prefer Portugal,,,,though we're probably biased because we lived there,(Americans) for 2 years (30 ys. ago)!
One silly reason is that I can't understand the Spanish habit of not eating dinner until after 10 pm! Portugal is more civil and dinnertime is around 7:30 or 8.

jmbklj

Hagan, you mentioned no graffiti in Lisbon?
"We found the people to be very friendly in Lisbon, the streets uncrowded, no graffiti, extremely clean, charming old neighborhoods to discover, gorgeous scenery - what more could you want?"

I just returned from Lisbon, Portugal yesterday, and one thing that turned me off was all the graffiti I saw all over the city.

lobo_mau

Lisbon is not a kind of place able to leave anybody indifferent. Some love it and some hate, and probably both sides are right.

Nikki

These morose, kind Portuguese folks are diplomatic too.

cmor

Hello~

Well as it turns out, we're going to Greece, which I know (think)is a complete turnaround from where I started. But absolutly Portugal next time. Thank you all for the links to wonderful pics and trip reports - are you all writers?? Such great descriptions and detail, I swear I was hungry and thirsty for a good glass of wine after reading. I'm hoping to find posts from you on the Greece threads.
Thanks again!
Carla

Nikki

Carla, if you are interested, I wrote a report about Greece also:

http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...p;tid=34589254

Photos:

http://www.kodakgallery.com/I.jsp?c=...&y=-b9k6sz

cmor

Yes interested! Beautiful pics, I just pasted the whole report into Word. We're going end of March into April, so now... researching itineraries. Thank you

lobo_mau

My linguistic efforts do not pair my diplomatic skills. I meant "unable" in my last post.

newcomer1

One more comment and then you'll need to switch to the Greece forum. I just wanted to plug Meteora in Greece, these awesome monastaries perched atop monoliths in the middle of nowhere. Before the early 20th century, the only way to visit was to be pulled up the mountainside in a basket; now, luckily, you go by road. I'll never forget my first look, as the morning mists parted and I viewed buildings precariously clinging to the top of the mountains.

And, don't forget about Portugal next year...you won't regret it.

weber6560

Would anyone care of offer a comparison of rural Spain vs rural Portugal? I am a "back roads" guy looking for the people more than the "sights". My presumption is that the people, roads, attitudes, food, etc are somewhat similar. Have wanted to add P to a few trips but frankly, it is just not that easy from Spain [with exception of Galicia] so never made it. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

tower

while we loved the feel of Lisbon on our recent Portugal journey, we fell in love with the countryside. The Alentejo farms, very small villages, mountain towns, etc. were very inviting...photo ops everywhere. Compared to Spain, not too different, although we found the roads, in general, were better maintained and engineered... and very comfortable to drive. The divided highways were superb.

I'll be posting some pix next week,

cblover

How cold is it In the Costa Blanca in December? Is it warmer than the Costa Del Sol?

annabelle2

Although I have not been to Portugal in a long time, it is one of the European countries, along with Spain, that was a favorite travel destination of my family.

In my opinion, the best way to enjoy Portugal is by not trying to compare it too much to Spain, even though they are neighbors. Lisbon is an interesting city with a great setting; Sintra is charming; Obidos is a perfect little walled town; Coimbra has wonderful Roman mosaics; driving through the Alentejo (Evora, mentioned above) is very atmospheric; and I have great memories of the Algarve, but frankly, someone who has been there more recently can tell you if it is still a great coastal area or too built up. Stay in a pousada or two, drink the good wine, listen to fado, shop for wonderful handicrafts and beautiful tile, and sit in cafes drinking coffee and listening to the sound of Portuguese - a lovely language, I think!

Anyway, do take that trip to Portugal; it is different economically and culturally than Spain, but definitely worth a visit! You may find yourself returning.

annabelle2

Nice photos, desmccarthy & nikki, by the way. Thanks!

tdyls

I might be able to answer this question fully in late November, after I've returned from Portugal and Spain! (A couple of days in Madrid on either end, mostly for logistical reasons, rather than an overwhelming desire to see Spain).

I was in Lisbon and Sintra this past Christmas. I would have never chosen to go to Portugal had I not read Frances &quot;#^$% this Tuscan Sun&quot; Mayes' book that came out a couple of years ago called <i>A Year in the World</i> (IIRC). While I thought that the book got really syrupy and chick-ish in parts (in case you can't tell, yes, I am male), but the chapter on Lisbon just made my jaw drop and think &quot;This place sounds really interesting!&quot;

As for prices: what was a &euro;1.00 shot of espresso in Italy in 2005 cost &euro;0.55 in Lisbon over Christmas. A 0.5 liter bottle of water in the grocery store was &euro;0.08. Yes, you read that correctly: eight cents.