Hello,

We are in the beginning stages of planning at trip this September for 16 days to Portugal and Spain. The area we wish to focus on the most is Andalusia, in southern Spain; however we also wish to see some of Portugal and also Madrid.

Our current plan is to
1) Fly into Lisbon. Use this as our base for FOUR days.
- (possibly a day trip or two to Sintra/Cascais or Obidos/Fatima/Nazare.

2) Take a train to Seville (is train the best means to get from Lisbon to Seville?). We will use Seville as our base for FIVE days. possibly take day trips to Cordoba and Cadiz while staying here.

3) Next we will travel to Granada. use this as our base for THREE days.

4) finally travel to Madrid and use this as our base for our final FOUR nights of our trip. then fly home from Madrid.

I realize there is travel time to be lost between cities and we wont have full days in some of these cities, but my main questions for those who have been fortunate enough to travel to this area, does this preliminary itinerary seem stretched too thin for a 16 day trip. I know we cant devote too much time to certain areas, but are interested in seeing as much as we can.

Notes: we are three brothers, all in our mid 20s to lower 30s. We are looking to mostly site-see, eat well, drink well, try to stay away from a lot of the touristy things and really experience some of the culture Portugal and Spain have to offer.

If we are stretched too thin, what areas would you recommend cutting out and/or adding. I am sure that Portugal is wonderful, but is spending 4 days here taking away from the time we could be further exploring Andalusia?

Again, we are in the infancy stages of our planning. there is so much information out there it is almost overwhelming. Fodors forums helped us out SOOO much in our Italy trip. I know it will do the same for our Portugal and Spain trip.

Thanks in advance for any advice you can provide !!!!

GreekGazoo

Hi; What you have planned is doable. We have done a few trips similar. But you could consider flying in and out of Madrid and skip Lisbon. Portugal has much to offer and two weeks could easily be spent there. From Madrid, Train to Seville. Then to Granada. Consider adding Barcelonia. Finally back to Madrid. All this could be accomplished by train. But, if you considered driving, there are many places to visit/stay between these cities. This guide has much information to download and you could e-mail Maribel for suggestions. Richard www.maribelsguides.com

I think this is doable and you have enough time in each location to get to enjoy it. Does the 16 days start with your arrival in Lisbon?
You can return to Spain and do a northern trip another time with Barcelona, the Costa Brava and the Basque region.

You can't take a train direct from Lisbon to Seville. You would take the night train to Madrid and change for Seville (possibly changing stations, I haven't checked - use bahn.de or renfe.es for schedules). There was a previous discussion here about doing it by bus, but again I don't think there is a direct bus, and you probably have to go via the Algarve.

No train as suggested, Lisbon to Seville [direct], but you could try the bus. Richard www.alsa.es This company goes into Spain from Lisbon. See 'routes and schedules'. E-MAIL THEM for information.

We caught the bus from Lisbon to Seville, going via Faro on New Year's Day this year. As previously mentioned it was with Alsa bus company. This is a Spanish company and tickets couldn't be purchased online - could only purchase online if the journey originated in Spain. We bought our tickets a few days beforehand at the Sete Rios station in Lisbon (opposite the metro Zoological Gardens stop)and had a relatively comfortable overnight trip, arriving in Seville early in the morning.

The 16th edition of the world's most important flamenco festival is taking place in Sevilla between the 15th of September and the 9th of October. One of the absolutely most important cultural events in Sevilla (about 60 performances in total), mostly local and knowledgeable crowds. Just taking in the atmosphere could be an experience in itself. Highlights almost every day, but if I should pick one recommendation, it would be the dance genious Rocío Molina (1984) in the Teatro de la Maestranza on the 19th of September. Here's a clip and reviews of her latest US performances:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eO2OsiN0pxI
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/26/ar.../26pillow.html
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/f3a38bd4-1...44feab49a.html

All about the festival, tickets etc.:
http://www.flamenco-world.com/notici...al22032010.htm

When in Sevilla, be sure to explore the more local atmosphere, cafés, bars etc in the former gypsy quarter Triana, just across the river from the famous and quite touristy Santa Cruz area: http://www.andalucia.com/cities/seville/triana.htm

Sevilla has got one of Spain's best tapas scenes. These sites give great information:
http://azahar-sevilla.com/sevilletapas/tapas-tours/
http://www.exploreseville.com/tapas-bars.htm

La Eslava is excellent, popular with locals and off the beaten tourist track:
http://azahar-sevilla.com/sevilletapas/category/eslava/
El Rinconcillo is allegedly Spain's oldest bar (1670), a must for the atmosphere and also tasty local specialities: http://azahar-sevilla.com/sevilletap...l-rinconcillo/

Let aside all the obvious sights in the city: If you are into chilling paintings and Sevilla golden-age history, go and see the Hospital de la Caridad (Charity hospital) founded in the in the 1660's by Miguel de Mañara. Mañara was - according to himself - "the most evil man that ever lived", and all the paintings he commisioned from some of the most famous golden-age arists for the hospital and it's adjoining church dealt with the theme of death and redemption. The hospital, the church, the paintings and Mañara's grave are in Calle Temprado, 3 (the Arenal area).
http://www.lonelyplanet.com/spain/seville/sights/411842

Michael Jacobs book "Andalucía" is an excellent introduction to the region:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Andalucia-Pa.../dp/1873429789

On Spain in general, and about how the country now is being haunted by its past, I can recommend The Guardian's Madrid correspondent Giles Tremlett's "Ghosts of Spain":
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/01/bo...wildman.t.html

~ HappyTrvlr - thats exactly what we were thinking. On a return trip it would be great to experience northern spain (barcelona, la rioja and all of the northern region). for this trip it just seems too much. honestly it feels a little too much to even try to do what we are planning. i understand we are not giving Portugal is due respect. Heading to barcelona and also the northern region of Spain just feels like too much on this trip.

~ Would it be possible to take an airplane one way from lisbon to seville to save us time?

~ On our past 4 trips to europe, i have lived and died by Rick Steves. (i know his arent the best books, but they serve their purpose for what i like). so we are once again going to utilize his advice on this region.

~ assuming that we continue with our plan of both Portugal and Spain, so the break down sound reasonable. all in all it is an 18 day trip (with travel btwn US and europe on day 1 and 18). for the first of our 16 actual days will be in Lisbon. 4 days in lisbon. 5 days in seville. 3 days in granada. and 4 days in Madrid. (with possible day trips planned from each of these destinations. we will just use these as our regional bases to stay).

Hi; You can fly direct from Lisbon to Seville [one hour]. www.kayak.com Or take the overnight bus. Great trip planned. Richard

We are 2 couples in our 60's. traveling to Spain with 17 days, 18 and 19 will be for traveling to and from America to Spain and from Portugal to America. Our initial plan: 1 day Madrid which we have visited many times. From there to Valencia by train or plain. Stay Valencia 2 days and rent a car to travel to Andalucia stopping 1 night on the way to Granada stay there 2 night. From there to Sevilla via Cordoba and stay in 5 nights in Sevilla to do day trips to Cadiz, Jerez de la Frontera y and other nice paces. From Seville take a plane or bus to Lisboa and stay there to go to Sintra,Fatima and....... Stay 5 days. Our fight back is from Lisboa to America on the 19th day