Portugal - Just Back
Jul 30th, 2007, 06:03 AM
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Portugal - Just Back
Just returned from an 8 day trip to Portugal. Stayed in Lisbon the whole time. Rented a car for the last 3 days we were there and drove to Cabo da Roca and Ericera one day; Obidos and Fatima the second day, and Evora the third day. Took the train to Sintra one day. Toured all the usual spots in Lisbon: Belem, Alfama, Baixa/Chiado, etc.
Hotel: We stayed at the Four Seasons/Ritz. Took advantage of their extended stay package and got our last 2 nights for free. Staff at the hotel were very friendly and helpful, but the rooms are in need of an upgrade (very dowdy), and the hotel is in a really lousy location. I knew when I booked the hotel that it was north of the main tourist areas, but I didn't expect that there would be absolutely nothing in the area in terms of restaurants/cafes, corner markets, etc.
Car Rental: Rented an automatic from Carjet (thanks to recommendations made on this forum). They were terrific to deal with and had by far the cheapest rate for an automatic. They booked us with Rent Auto, which I had never heard of before and was a little nervous about as they do not have a physical presence at Lisbon airport. They turned out to be great. They bring the car to you at the arrivals area of the airport and then you drop it off at departures when you leave. Super easy and very convenient. Wish American car rentals worked like this!
Public Transport: Fantastic, cheap, easy to use. Took the metro, buses, trams, and the ferry to Cristo Rei. Never had a problem figuring out what to do or where to go. Also took taxis; they are very inexpensive.
Sintra: Take the train; could not be any easier or convenient. We loved the National Palace; thought that Pena Palace is highly overrated (loved the exterior, but thought the interiors were dreary and uninteresting and defintely not worth the long waits to see each room.); most unexpected delight was the ruins of the Moorish castle - absolutely fantastic, with breathtaking views of Sintra and beyond.
Happy to answer any questions people may have about upcoming trips.
Hotel: We stayed at the Four Seasons/Ritz. Took advantage of their extended stay package and got our last 2 nights for free. Staff at the hotel were very friendly and helpful, but the rooms are in need of an upgrade (very dowdy), and the hotel is in a really lousy location. I knew when I booked the hotel that it was north of the main tourist areas, but I didn't expect that there would be absolutely nothing in the area in terms of restaurants/cafes, corner markets, etc.
Car Rental: Rented an automatic from Carjet (thanks to recommendations made on this forum). They were terrific to deal with and had by far the cheapest rate for an automatic. They booked us with Rent Auto, which I had never heard of before and was a little nervous about as they do not have a physical presence at Lisbon airport. They turned out to be great. They bring the car to you at the arrivals area of the airport and then you drop it off at departures when you leave. Super easy and very convenient. Wish American car rentals worked like this!
Public Transport: Fantastic, cheap, easy to use. Took the metro, buses, trams, and the ferry to Cristo Rei. Never had a problem figuring out what to do or where to go. Also took taxis; they are very inexpensive.
Sintra: Take the train; could not be any easier or convenient. We loved the National Palace; thought that Pena Palace is highly overrated (loved the exterior, but thought the interiors were dreary and uninteresting and defintely not worth the long waits to see each room.); most unexpected delight was the ruins of the Moorish castle - absolutely fantastic, with breathtaking views of Sintra and beyond.
Happy to answer any questions people may have about upcoming trips.
Jul 30th, 2007, 10:06 AM
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majmaj4: You are going to have a great time in Lisbon!
The name of the castle is just Castelo dos Mouros (ie, Moorish Castle). We toured Sintra Palace first, then took the tourist bus (#434) up to Pena Palace. We then walked back down the hill (no more than a 5-10 minute walk) to the Moorish Castle. (You can do the Moorish Castle first if you want because the bus makes a stop at the castle on its way up to Pena Palace.) After buying an entrance ticket, you walk thru a lovely wooded path for about 5 or 10 minutes until you get to the gate of the castle (where an attendant will take your ticket). A word of warning - you are allowed to climb all over the ruins, which is great, but there are no railings and parts of the steps/walls are very steep and narrow. Just watch your step and you will have a great time.
As for restaurants, I would recommend the following:
Luca - upscale Italian; great atmosphere; excellent service; reasonably priced (not cheap, but not overpriced); make a reservation. It is located at Rua St. Marta 35 (351-21-3150212)
C & D - traditional, family-run restaurant in Madragda section of Lisbon. Super friendly service; they speak fairly good english; very reasonably priced. Probably our favorite meal of the entire trip. Don't be put off by the neighborhood; it looks a little seedy, but we wandered around the area twice at night and never felt unsafe; go while it is still light; there are some fantastic tiled buildings in the blocks surrounding the restaurant. It is located at Rua da Esperanca 112 (213 962744); probably not necessary to make a reservation.
as Salgadeiras - popular (ie, a little touristy) Portuguese restaurant in Bairro Alto area of Lisbon. Excellent service; great fish and seafood (they serve steaks, veal, pork, etc. as well); reasonably priced. It is located at Rua das Salgadeiras 18 (21 342 11 57)
Enjoy!
The name of the castle is just Castelo dos Mouros (ie, Moorish Castle). We toured Sintra Palace first, then took the tourist bus (#434) up to Pena Palace. We then walked back down the hill (no more than a 5-10 minute walk) to the Moorish Castle. (You can do the Moorish Castle first if you want because the bus makes a stop at the castle on its way up to Pena Palace.) After buying an entrance ticket, you walk thru a lovely wooded path for about 5 or 10 minutes until you get to the gate of the castle (where an attendant will take your ticket). A word of warning - you are allowed to climb all over the ruins, which is great, but there are no railings and parts of the steps/walls are very steep and narrow. Just watch your step and you will have a great time.
As for restaurants, I would recommend the following:
Luca - upscale Italian; great atmosphere; excellent service; reasonably priced (not cheap, but not overpriced); make a reservation. It is located at Rua St. Marta 35 (351-21-3150212)
C & D - traditional, family-run restaurant in Madragda section of Lisbon. Super friendly service; they speak fairly good english; very reasonably priced. Probably our favorite meal of the entire trip. Don't be put off by the neighborhood; it looks a little seedy, but we wandered around the area twice at night and never felt unsafe; go while it is still light; there are some fantastic tiled buildings in the blocks surrounding the restaurant. It is located at Rua da Esperanca 112 (213 962744); probably not necessary to make a reservation.
as Salgadeiras - popular (ie, a little touristy) Portuguese restaurant in Bairro Alto area of Lisbon. Excellent service; great fish and seafood (they serve steaks, veal, pork, etc. as well); reasonably priced. It is located at Rua das Salgadeiras 18 (21 342 11 57)
Enjoy!
Jul 30th, 2007, 11:05 AM
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jam40:
Thanks for your offer to answer questions as we will be there next April.
You said "Car Rental: Rented an automatic from Carjet ... . They booked us with Rent Auto"
Do you have contact info for Carjet?? since "they booked with Rent Auto", do you think I can book directly through Rent Auto?
It would be great if you can give approximate cost of your dining. Different people may have different ideas on what "reasonable price" mean. For me since we don't drink (the most is one glass of table wine), my reasonable price (not fancy) would be US$30-40 dinner for two. Of course, the cheaper the better, wiithout resorting to Wendy's or street food.
Thanks for your offer to answer questions as we will be there next April.
You said "Car Rental: Rented an automatic from Carjet ... . They booked us with Rent Auto"
Do you have contact info for Carjet?? since "they booked with Rent Auto", do you think I can book directly through Rent Auto?
It would be great if you can give approximate cost of your dining. Different people may have different ideas on what "reasonable price" mean. For me since we don't drink (the most is one glass of table wine), my reasonable price (not fancy) would be US$30-40 dinner for two. Of course, the cheaper the better, wiithout resorting to Wendy's or street food.
Jul 30th, 2007, 04:36 PM
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majmaj4 - A final comment about the Moorish castle. I don't want to leave you with the impression that the Castle is an intact structure; it most definitely is not. It is the ruins of the castle; essentially one long stretch of the outer wall (picture the Great Wall of China). The lack of structure did not detract from our enjoyment of the castle. On the contrary, it made for some very dramatic photo ops, and as I mentioned previously, it was a lot of fun climbing the ruins.
Jul 30th, 2007, 04:49 PM
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Johnmango: You can contact Carjet thru their website: www.carjet.com. They essentially work as a consolidator (? - not sure that is the right word); you won't know from whom you will actually receive the car until you book with them. From other reports on this forum, it seemed that Carjet always placed orders with Budget Rental Car, so I was surprised when we were booked with Rent Auto. I don't have any contact info for Rent Auto as we always dealt with Carjet. You could perhaps try a Google search on them.
Point well taken on the restaurants. Near as I can recall, we paid around 60 Euros at Luca (included starters, main courses, a couple of drinks and dessert); C & D was under 35 Euros (again, included starters, main courses, dessert and drinks); as Salgadeiras was about 65 Euros (again, had starters, main course, drinks; don't recall having dessert here).
To keep dining costs down, I would recommend family-run restaurants like C & D. We had lunch at such places all the time and were never disappointed. (Lunches ran between 12-15 Euros.) They didn't always speak much English in these places, but we always had a great meal. You probably won't find this type of restaurant mentioned in guide books or suggested by your hotel; it will take some walking around on your part, preferably in the less touristy parts of Lisbon. We stumbled upon C & D when we were in the area photographing the tile buildings.
Hope this helps.
Point well taken on the restaurants. Near as I can recall, we paid around 60 Euros at Luca (included starters, main courses, a couple of drinks and dessert); C & D was under 35 Euros (again, included starters, main courses, dessert and drinks); as Salgadeiras was about 65 Euros (again, had starters, main course, drinks; don't recall having dessert here).
To keep dining costs down, I would recommend family-run restaurants like C & D. We had lunch at such places all the time and were never disappointed. (Lunches ran between 12-15 Euros.) They didn't always speak much English in these places, but we always had a great meal. You probably won't find this type of restaurant mentioned in guide books or suggested by your hotel; it will take some walking around on your part, preferably in the less touristy parts of Lisbon. We stumbled upon C & D when we were in the area photographing the tile buildings.
Hope this helps.
Jul 30th, 2007, 06:50 PM
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Sorry to be so pesky.
Jam40 .. when you said "we" spent this much and that much at this or that restaurant, say for 40euros, 60 euros etc. etc. - did you mean 2 people = we?
I thought Portugal is much cheaper than countries like France and Italy, but 60 euros for a meal for 2 does not sound inexpensive to me!
Jam40 .. when you said "we" spent this much and that much at this or that restaurant, say for 40euros, 60 euros etc. etc. - did you mean 2 people = we?
I thought Portugal is much cheaper than countries like France and Italy, but 60 euros for a meal for 2 does not sound inexpensive to me!
Jul 31st, 2007, 04:01 AM
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Johnmango - You're not being a pest; truly happy to help out.
When I said "we", I did indeed mean 2 people (my husband and myself). Sorry for any confusion.
Overall, we found Portugal much cheaper than other European cities we have visited in recent years (although with Portugal now using the Euro and the exchange rate for U.S. citizens being so dreadful at the moment, Portugal is definitely no longer the great bargain it used to be.) For example, public transportation was very inexpensive (1.50 Euro for the two of us to ride the metro one way). Taxis were also very inexpensive compared to other cities; don't think we ever paid much more than 5 Euro (and that was for a trip to Belem). We also found the price of souvenirs to be much more reasonable than in other cities.
With respect to dining, you will have no problem finding restaurants for 2 under 60 Euro. (Follow my advice about family run places, and you can generally eat for under 30 Euros for 2). Also, it is possible to eat for less at the places I mentioned above if you don't eat as much food as we did. (We normally don't have starters, mains, and dessert when eating at home; we splurged because we were on vacation.) We also always ate everything that the restaurant brought to the table as "cover" (ie, bread, olives, cheese, etc.) These "covers" easily added another 5 Euro (or more) to our final bill. Also, my husband loved the more "exotic" items on the menu (such as octupus) which was certainly more expensive than the traditional Portuguese codfish. At as Salgaderias, I had a steak which definitely added to the cost of the meal.
When I said "we", I did indeed mean 2 people (my husband and myself). Sorry for any confusion.
Overall, we found Portugal much cheaper than other European cities we have visited in recent years (although with Portugal now using the Euro and the exchange rate for U.S. citizens being so dreadful at the moment, Portugal is definitely no longer the great bargain it used to be.) For example, public transportation was very inexpensive (1.50 Euro for the two of us to ride the metro one way). Taxis were also very inexpensive compared to other cities; don't think we ever paid much more than 5 Euro (and that was for a trip to Belem). We also found the price of souvenirs to be much more reasonable than in other cities.
With respect to dining, you will have no problem finding restaurants for 2 under 60 Euro. (Follow my advice about family run places, and you can generally eat for under 30 Euros for 2). Also, it is possible to eat for less at the places I mentioned above if you don't eat as much food as we did. (We normally don't have starters, mains, and dessert when eating at home; we splurged because we were on vacation.) We also always ate everything that the restaurant brought to the table as "cover" (ie, bread, olives, cheese, etc.) These "covers" easily added another 5 Euro (or more) to our final bill. Also, my husband loved the more "exotic" items on the menu (such as octupus) which was certainly more expensive than the traditional Portuguese codfish. At as Salgaderias, I had a steak which definitely added to the cost of the meal.
Jul 31st, 2007, 07:45 AM
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In the same block where I work. Believe me, you wouldn't go there on your own free will 
I don't post here what I had for lunch, because I don't want to ruin other readers afternoon
On a more serious note, I'd say that for a full meal (apetizers, main course, wine, desserts and coffee), 20 euros pp is ok. From a personal point of view I avoid places charging more than that since I personally feel they rarely deserve.
I missed your posts, email me your plans in Lisbon and maybe we are able to meet. We've postoned our move to Sogra's Inn in the Alentejo (summer break), so maybe there is some overlap.
Come prepared to heat (around or above 40 Celsius)
I don't post here what I had for lunch, because I don't want to ruin other readers afternoon On a more serious note, I'd say that for a full meal (apetizers, main course, wine, desserts and coffee), 20 euros pp is ok. From a personal point of view I avoid places charging more than that since I personally feel they rarely deserve.
I missed your posts, email me your plans in Lisbon and maybe we are able to meet. We've postoned our move to Sogra's Inn in the Alentejo (summer break), so maybe there is some overlap.
Come prepared to heat (around or above 40 Celsius)
Jul 31st, 2007, 08:56 AM
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jam40, thanks for your tips! My husband and I will be in Lisbon for just a week in October. I'm reading posts here and reading guidebooks.
We can afford to plane tickets, apt. rental, entrance fees, local transportation, but we so far (usually) have always eaten at the cheapest places possible and food we buy from grocery stores. We have to do it cheap. It's just the sacrifice we make in order to go more than once a year.
We will be on a side street near Rossio. Hopefully we can find inexpensive places to eat, if not we'll live on grocery store food and whatever street food Lisbon has to offer.
Lobo Mau, we will be there 9 October leaving 17 Oct. We'd be interesting in the LDC, it could be our one dining splash out. However, it that means more than 35 euros pp, it wouldn't be for us.
I'll email you sometime. I have your address. Thanks!
We can afford to plane tickets, apt. rental, entrance fees, local transportation, but we so far (usually) have always eaten at the cheapest places possible and food we buy from grocery stores. We have to do it cheap. It's just the sacrifice we make in order to go more than once a year.
We will be on a side street near Rossio. Hopefully we can find inexpensive places to eat, if not we'll live on grocery store food and whatever street food Lisbon has to offer.
Lobo Mau, we will be there 9 October leaving 17 Oct. We'd be interesting in the LDC, it could be our one dining splash out. However, it that means more than 35 euros pp, it wouldn't be for us.
I'll email you sometime. I have your address. Thanks!
Jul 31st, 2007, 09:18 AM
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Giselle - We had a difficult time finding grocery stores/corner markets in Lisbon. We never did see a single Western style convenience store. Perhaps we were looking in the wrong areas, but we are used to other European (and especially Asian) cities where corner markets can be found every block or so. There are a ton of pastelarias, but they don't generally sell grocery store type items.
There is one large grocery store in Amorieas (spelling?) mall (a bit of a hike - uphill - from Marcus Pombal Metro station) that we went to the first day we were in Lisbon to stock up on snack food. In hindsight, we should have bought even more snacks than we did because of the later difficulty we had finding markets.
I would be curious to hear from the local experts on the board if we were just completely clueless about corner markets, or there really aren't that many in the central areas of Lisbon.
There is one large grocery store in Amorieas (spelling?) mall (a bit of a hike - uphill - from Marcus Pombal Metro station) that we went to the first day we were in Lisbon to stock up on snack food. In hindsight, we should have bought even more snacks than we did because of the later difficulty we had finding markets.
I would be curious to hear from the local experts on the board if we were just completely clueless about corner markets, or there really aren't that many in the central areas of Lisbon.
Jul 31st, 2007, 12:46 PM
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LOBO ou mais alguem do LDC
I will be in Lisbon from August 3rd to the 9th. I will be there with 12 members of my family including five teenagers and the rest adults ( a lively fun-loving mix of Portugues-American, Irish, and even some Lithuanian!). We are staying behind the Teatro Nacional, near the Calcada Santana, in 3 private homes. The first 3 days will be in Lisbon proper, exploring the city, then for 2 days we travel abit, Sintra, Obidos, etc. Then another day back in LIsbon before going north. We had planned on Adega das Gravatas for the first night which is Friday the 3rd, and then Caldo Verde for Saturday night. Our exact itinerary is in flux.. Are you around?
Susana
I will be in Lisbon from August 3rd to the 9th. I will be there with 12 members of my family including five teenagers and the rest adults ( a lively fun-loving mix of Portugues-American, Irish, and even some Lithuanian!). We are staying behind the Teatro Nacional, near the Calcada Santana, in 3 private homes. The first 3 days will be in Lisbon proper, exploring the city, then for 2 days we travel abit, Sintra, Obidos, etc. Then another day back in LIsbon before going north. We had planned on Adega das Gravatas for the first night which is Friday the 3rd, and then Caldo Verde for Saturday night. Our exact itinerary is in flux.. Are you around?
Susana
Aug 2nd, 2007, 11:18 AM
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eleanorw: I'm afraid I can't offer much help on hotels other than the Four Seasons. I know that when I was first checking out Lisbon hotels Lapa Palace was frequently cited as a fabuluous five star hotel. Not sure where in the city Lapa is located. We went with the Four Seasons because we normally love Four Seasons properties, and because of the 2 free nights deal. When we were out and about, I never saw any hotels that we would have seriously considered staying in. (We splurge on hotels when we travel overseas; never saw any five star hotels in the main tourist areas.)
I don't want to discourage anyone from staying at the Four Seasons. It's a very nice hotel; it just didn't live up to my expectations - in terms of location or amenities. In hindsight, I think that if we had been thrilled with the hotel, we would have gladly overlooked the issues with its location. Since we were less than thrilled, the location issues started to grate after a few days.
On the positive side, I should point out that the Marques Pombal metro stop is less than a 10 minute walk from the hotel. The metro is cheap and easy to use and can take you to lots of places where there are great restaurants, shops, sights, etc.
I don't want to discourage anyone from staying at the Four Seasons. It's a very nice hotel; it just didn't live up to my expectations - in terms of location or amenities. In hindsight, I think that if we had been thrilled with the hotel, we would have gladly overlooked the issues with its location. Since we were less than thrilled, the location issues started to grate after a few days.
On the positive side, I should point out that the Marques Pombal metro stop is less than a 10 minute walk from the hotel. The metro is cheap and easy to use and can take you to lots of places where there are great restaurants, shops, sights, etc.
Aug 2nd, 2007, 01:08 PM
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The Bairro Alto Hotel is very nice as well and centrally located. It isn't 5*, I guess 4*--though it is a boutique hotel, like the Lapa, and service was extraordinary.
I thought the location of the Lapa was a bit out of the way--then again I only saw it when driving out of the city and making one of many wrong turns
I thought the location of the Lapa was a bit out of the way--then again I only saw it when driving out of the city and making one of many wrong turns
Aug 2nd, 2007, 06:18 PM
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Thanks. We also like to splurge on hotels and be centrally located which is why I have questions. We were thinking of the ritz or lapa but they both seem a little out of the way. We're also thinking of the Bairro Alto hotel or the heritage avenida liberdade, and would welcome opinions
