scrb11

Well I split it, 2 nights in Pinhao and 1 night in Mesao Frio to make for shorter drive back to the airport.

Then one final night in Lisbon, where prices are much higher at end of April than in the middle of April.

Just have to book flights between Faro and Porto and then back to Lisbon. Surprised TAP doesn't have direct flights from Faro to Porto and I don't know about Ryan Air, which only runs flights on certain days.


Also, car rental prices are sky high, over $100 average per day. What I'm finding out is that prices drop when you book within a month out so I will check those prices again in a few weeks.

Thanks again all.

scrb11

Been studying some menus and researching Portuguese dishes.

Mostly going to try to find places which have outdoor tables, weather permitting.

It seems like most of the traditional dishes listed on sites like this one are in small, traditional places, maybe comparable to little family-run trattorias in Italy.

https://www.portugalist.com/portuguese-food/

The issue with that is these places are on narrow streets, older buildings so they won't have outdoor tables. Instead the places with a lot of outdoor tables are more pricey, which I'm willing to pay for some meals to avoid indoor dining, like rooftop restaurants on top of hotels. Some of these have good reviews, though I would suspect that the high reviews for a lot of these small traditional places has to do with lower prices (that would probably be the case everywhere, not just Portugal). But these more pricey places don't seem to do traditional dishes like bacalau a Bras or frango peri-peri, although the Portugalist site says there are more of the latter in the Algarve.

Francesinha sounds kind of scary with all that sauce and cheese over a meat sandwich, for those needing to control their cholesterol.

Also notice a lot of bruschette and risotto in menus too. Are these Portuguese versions or are these to appeal more to international diners? There seems to a lot of the latter with breakfast places offering avocado toasts and of course the ubiquitous hamburgers and steakhouses which seem similar to those you'd see in any country.

Are my assumptions correct, to sample traditional Portugues fare you have to go to these smaller traditional restaurants while the bigger places in some fancier locales tend to have higher-priced, internationalized menus?

Maribel

You don't have to dine in expensive roof top terraces in hotels. They won't serve the very traditional Portuguese dishes that you've been researching (it's frango piri piri). They'll serve internationalized dishes or trendy fusion fare, for the most part, to appeal to a broad international clientele.

You'll find the very traditional dishes mostly in tascas, tabernas, churrasqueiras, "mom-and-pop" family-run restaurants. I think you'll find other less pricey options for outdoor dining, weather permitting.
As I mentioned elsewhere, in Pinhão Veladouro does have a covered outdoor terrace as you can see from photos.

In Gaia there should be outdoor terraces open on the riverside and across the river in the Ribeira district of Porto.
Yes, the famous francesinha is a calorie bomb.
On pedestrianized Rua das Flores, the Cantina 32 serves traditional dishes and has a few outdoor tables.
If you make it out to the western section of Porto, Foz do Douro, where the Douro meets the Atlantic, near the Jardim do Passeio Alegre, the small & cute
Casa de Pasto da Palmeira has an outdoor terrace and we've enjoyed traditional dishes there.

In Matosinhos (take the 500 double deck bus), Helena's home and home of fantastic seafood (Anthony Bourdain's Porto episode), there are all the restaurants lined up in a row on Rua Herois de França, across from the fish market. I believe that Salta o Muro has a few outdoor tables. Traditional grilled fish that I've put on my list for my next visit.

In Lisbon for frango piri piri there's everyone's favorite, Bomjardim, with outdoor terrace on "restaurant rows", Rua de Santo Antão and Travessa de Santo Antão. Also on Praça dos Restauradores in Lisbon there's the locals' and tourists' favorite, Marisqueira Pinóquio with large outdoor terrace. And in Cais do Sodré where one catches the train to Cascais, Ibo and Monte Mar have outdoor terraces and serve wonderful seafood.
If you take the 20- minute ferry from Cais do Sodré to Cacilhas on a nice day, there are two restaurants with ample terrace seating, Atira-te ao Rio and Ponto Final at the end of the walk past abandoned warehouses. They're very popular. We're headed there in 2 weeks on a Sunday, hoping for sunny skies.

In the Algarve you should find more outdoor terraces, fantastic seafood and sunnier skies, so there should be more outdoor dining options. That's a very good question for AgentNicky from Carvoeiro on TA.

scrb11

Thanks Maribel, bookmarked most of these.

HelenaFatima

Hi!

SCRB, buildings in Porto, mainly but not only in the oldest part of the city, have a backyard. It's the place where we used to grow vegetables and animals (chickens, rabbits, etc). The outdoors places of restaurants are usually in there. For instance, in "Travessa de Cedofeita", a very narrow pedestrian street, all places have tables outdoors at the back.

One of my favourites restaurants in Porto is "O Caraças", in "Rua das Taipas". From the (narrow) street you see only the doors and the room inside. But if you go inside, and cross the restaurant, and leave from the last door, you have the grill (This is a familiar restaurant, mother in the kitchen, granma in the grill and the girls serving the tables), and an amazing exterior area, with views to the river and the ancient wall of Porto. I pay more or less 15 to 18 euros, with appetizers (not fancy appetizers, juts cheese, butter, bread and the inevitable olives), the dish itself, wine and coffee (I don't like desserts). For two people it can goes to 40 euros. Another example is "Venham +5". at "Rua de Santo Ildefonso", two nice exterior areas in the back. An so on.

Concerning "Rua Heróis de França", Matosinhos, all restaurants located east have exterior areas, the ones on the west I'm not sure. "Salta o Muro" is on west, and I have always eated inside (it's one of the the best restaurants for octopussy).

Maribel, Matosinhos is not my home, Matosinhos is where my home is. I was born in the heart of Porto, and lived in Porto (not the city center, my parents moved to a more modern area just before I was born) until I decided to buy an apartment. Matosinhos was cheaper, at least where I live.

I live very near the best open market in North Portugal. It runs every Saturday afternoon, it is called "Feira de Custóias", and easy to reach: just take the metro towards "Maia Fórum" or "ISMAI", and leave it at "Candido dos Reis" station and turn right (or just follow the people). You can buy everything there. I mean everything.

Maribel

Hi Helena,
I should have said Matosinhos where you currently live! Home is Porto! Thanks for the dining recommendations, and especially about the terraces in the backyards.

scrb11

Thank you Helena, will look out for those recommendations.

On a slightly negative note, Portugal and Italy have had some rises in new cases the last few days.

Hopefully not a new wave, maybe people not being as careful since cases have been declining for about a month now.

HelenaFatima

Yes, you're absolutely right. I speak for myself, and for others. We are tired. We are kissing and hughing. It's stupid, I know.

Most of the people I konw had COVID the last months, and it's mainly because we are not respecting the measures. I mean... we are all vaccinated with all the dosis and boosters, and we need to kiss and hugh, we really need that, we need to touch people.

My friends are not very well, covid is hurting them hard, like one week in bed feeling really tired. Older people are better, I don't know why. My parents had it a month ago without even noticing. They wre tested because their women that cares for them told she was positive (and she stayed in bed for 3 days). My parents were ok, they tested positive so they stayed home for the time they are obliged. My mother is 84 with a bad heart disease.

The number of cases would be much higher if there was a system where you can get the real numbers. But many people just test positive and stay home 7 days, and they cannot even participate that to the health authorities.

The number of cases is not real. I look at the number of deaths and the condition of people that is dying, those numbers I trust, and it's not bad. It's more or less like the numbers of people dying of Flu every year.

scrb11

Been reading about how unusual the Portugal toll roads are, how you pay online after you've used highways because toll booths aren't common like other EU countries.

Or you can rent a transponder and preload credit on it or something?

Anyone drive a rental car in Portugal recently?

Maribel

All Portuguese rental vehicles come with a transponder already installed. The rental agent will simply ask you if you want it activated and you respond YES. Don't try to avoid the toll roads because it just won't be possible, at sometime you'll drive on one, and in addition these toll roads are much better maintained and far quicker. We do this all the time.

All you need to know about them is here--
https://www.portugaltolls.com/en

scrb11

Thanks for the link.

Wow I see about €40-45 in charges, about half for driving from Cascais to Algarve.

Oh well.

Maribel

Yes, but it's worth it, as you'll have very well maintained motorways, less traffic and you'll get their faster, believe me.

scrb11

Google Maps will show routes without tolls and they're usually longer but a lot of times, the estimated times aren't much more.

But yeah I will pay for the best highways.

Maribel

Again, google maps may show routes w/o tolls, but the times are indeed more and the roads not in as good condition. In the Algarve we did venture off the fast autoroute slightly, just before reaching our Tavira lodging, coming in on the dreaded, old and traffic loaded national highway. Our hostess actually scolded us for not taking the toll road, saying "didn't anyone advise you always to take the toll road?--so much faster and easier". We had to explain that we hadn't been foolish but simply wanted to detour that short amount to have a seafood lunch in Fuseta on our way to the Quinta. Then she said," ok. I understand, but take the toll road back to Faro!"

scrb11

Well once I reach the Algarve, most of my trips will be between coastal towns so those don't require going out to the autoroute.

Similarly in Duoro, trips between Pinhao and Mesao Frio and points in between will be on local roads.

Surprised to see it cost a bit over 1 Euro to go from Cascais to Sintra but not to go along the coast, maybe up to 20-30 km north of Cabo da Roca.

Maribel

The quickest and best way to reach Pinhão from Porto or its airport is to take the toll road, A4, through the tunnel to just beyond Vila Real then exit 13 and down the A24.

scrb11

Wine tasting options in Porto and Pinhao?

See that the Quintas in Pinhao have various options, like tours without tasting. But they also have DOC wine tastings?

I know they're renowned for Port wine, which is sweet right, mostly to have with desert? Looks like tastings with chocolate.

Are there tastings of non Port wines? What goes well with meals? Lot of restaurants seem to offer house wine and then white, red and rose all from Duoro Valley by the glass?

bdokeefe

We were very impressed with the quality of the toll roads on our two visits. At times it was a bit 'creepy' as to how few cars were using it, I'm sure partially due to our April and November off peak timing. The transponders from the auto rental company makes it very easy.

Compared to some of the stressful driving I've done overseas, and having lived in Germany for 4 years, driving in Portugal was a pleasure. We're due over in a month, guessing petrol will be super expensive.

Maribel

I can't emphasize enough how easy and un-stressful the automated toll roads are and how well they're maintained. It makes driving in Portugal much more pleasant and well worth the money, ime.

Iwan2go

Bookmarking all the Lisbon restaurants! We’re in Sintra next Wednesday - Friday, then Lisbon for six nights.

I do have a question: can I bring home canned fish? The sardines look divine. Thanks!