Melissa5

We love to travel and I'm excited to begin planning our first trip to Eastern Europe. I will travel with my husband and 2 college-age daughters. (IF I can persuade the young ones to accompany us old "fogies"!)

I have just begun to plan. I am thinking early September 2008 is good, and Poland is on top of the list, as my grandmother spoke Polish but never taught my mother any Polish, and so I am filled with wonderment about the mystery of being Polish!

The only thing I know is that my grandmother's folks came from Krakow. My first question: this is really spelled Cracow?? Confusing. My grandfather's folks also came from Poland.

My tentative itinerary would include some of these places, but I don't want to do too much. We want to have time to experience the culture. Here are the places we are interested in:

Poland (including Krakow)

Czech Republic (including Prague)

Hungary (including Budapest)

Slovenia (including Ljubljana & Bled)

Vienna (maybe)

We may not have time for all those places in 2 weeks. I am open to suggestions about itineraries. Poland is "Must".

We enjoy culture, people, authentic local foods, history, nature, walking, cities, scenic areas, music, art, and science. We love staying at places with a local flavor which are locally owned and family-run.

Can anyone recommend best travel books for this area?

Would anyone like to share about their visit to Poland, or if you live in Poland what is your advice?

Also would like to hear about your other favorite places in Eastern Europe.

Thank you! We had a wonderful visit to Ireland, where we visited the places where my other Irish grandmother grew up. Now I am very interested in getting to know the "real" Poland.

Pegontheroad

I think your itinerary is a bit ambitious. I'd cut out Budapest and Slovenia and just concentrate on Krakow (no idea how it's really spelled), Prague, and Vienna. Krakow is a wonderful, vibrant city. We loved it!

We also loved Prague--"golden Prague" I heard it called long before the Iron Curtain came down, when I was still uneasy about visiting it. Every corner you turn there is another beautiful building.

I love Vienna, too. Be sure to see the Klimpts in the Belvedere Palace. That wonderful picture "The Kiss" is there. It's just such an international place and a great city to visit.

Pegontheroad

I have to add a few things. We used Rick Steves Eastern Europe on our visit to Berlin, Krakow, Prague, Budapest, Vienna and Munich.(We also had a side trip to Copenhagen and Aarhus, Denmark.)

Many people don't like Rick, but his is the first guidebook I always buy when I'm going to a new area. I found this book especially useful because it included all the cities we wanted to see (except Denmark) in one book, which was convenient. Unfortunately I disposed of it when we returned because I have a humungous collection of guidebooks and wanted to clear out some so I'd have room for new ones. Therefore I can't refer to names of places.

One thing I'd suggest is that you go to Sunday Mass in the big church in the square there. We heard wonderful music emanating from the church (I think something like St. Mary's?) at the end of the Mass, but we'd already gone somewhere else.

The thing that impressed me most was the interiors of churches that were done by the art movement "Young Poland." Just fabulous art noveau work. (I think that's what they call it, anyway.)

The main square is fun. Lots of tourists, lots of local people. The castle was also impressive. The whole town just had a joyful feeling. There were a zillion children--at the castle, and in the churches on field trips.

I thought this was funny. We were sitting in the airport in Berlin waiting for our flight to Krakow. I had my trusty Rick Steves our and was "practicing" my Polish by quietly pronouncing the vocabulary in the back of the book. I looked up and saw that there was a sizable group of (presumably) Pole smiling or outright laughing at my pitiful attempts to pronounce Polish.

lucy_d

Melissa,
I agree that this will be too much in two weeks. Based on what you've said, I would suggest Krakow, Prague and Budapest.

I love, love Vienna, but think Vienna, Budapest and Prague would be better together. Since Krakow tops your list, I'd save Vienna for another trip.

I've been to Krakow a couple of times and yes, it is a wonderful and vibrant city. Possible day trips could be to the salt mines and Auschwitz. These are easy to book online or ask at your hotel. There will be pamphlets galore for such tours.

I like the Lonely Planet guidebooks. Look at some guidebooks and do some internet research with your girls to see what you may find appealing to do. Then ask questions here. People are generous with advice and help.

Have fun planning!

PeterB

I would agree with others and cut out some cities and see them another time. Just in Krakow you can spend a week easy and not see it all. From Krakow you can also do few day trips - ie. Zakopane ... As for spelling ... Kraków is Polish and Cracow in English similar to Warszawa and Warsaw or Prague and Praha etc. etc.

http://www.inyourpocket.com/city/krakow.html
http://www.krakow.pl/en/

Melissa5

Thanks for the quick responses, everyone! I am excited to begin planning. I love researching trips.

Pegontheroad: We loved Rick Steves Italy guidebook. Fantastic! His Ireland guidebook was NOT as good. I'm glad to hear that his Eastern Europe guidebook is good. I think the current one was published in 2006 and written in 2005...I wonder if that will be "new" enough for our September 2008 trip...

I think fodors has just published 2007 editions for their Prague and Budapest books...

I need to do a lot more research and am totally open to your ideas. We definitely don't want to squash in too many places...We like to take the time to settle into an area, and have time to look around, taste, and feel what it's like there...

How many different languages will I end up needing to practice saying "thank you" in? It makes a trip more enriching if you at least give the language a try...

Chat with you all later! Feel free to add your advice, everyone...

Melissa5

More thoughts...I know you are all right about cutting back on our proposed itinerary. I think 4 nights each in 3 different spots would be really nice, with some day-trips from those 3 bases. That would still leave me with 2 extra nights to play with...

I am already thinking that I will put us in Krakow and Prague for 4 nights each. I need to do more research to see where the third "base" should be...maybe Vienna as Pegontheroad suggests, or maybe Budapest as Lucy_d suggests.

PeterB: I'm glad to hear you think we could spend a week in Krakow and still not see it all...sounds like a great city! That's how we felt about Rome. We spent 4 nights in Rome, and stayed right in a central location. We loved it. We could have spent a week there. I will also look into a day-trip to "Zakopane" as you suggest. Thanks for the links, which I will look at!

lucy_d: I am fascinated that you have suggested a day-trip to the salt mines in Poland. I didn't realize Poland had salt mines, I know very little history yet but am planning to learn. The amazing thing is that I have often heard my mother use the expression "back to the salt mines", and I bet it may have been passed along in her family as they came from Poland. I wish I could ask her more about what she knows, but I can tell there are some dark spots in her memory, though she is not from Poland herself, she doesn't want to remember the sadder parts of her family's history. Therefore I plan for my family and I to discover Poland for ourselves! I will bring my mother back something that represents the happy side of Poland. She and my father aren't travellers.

Pegontheroad: You sound like my kind of traveller. I have a collection of guidebooks too, and my husband bought me a new bookcase to house them in! I just bought Rick Steves new Europe Through the Back Door 2007, and it is an amazing book, even if you have already been to Europe, I am still learning so much. I think everyone should read it.

Pegontheroad, you have given me a good picture of Krakow: the fun main square with locals and tourists; castle; a town with a joyful feeling, I really like that thought. I will remember about Sunday Mass on the main square as well. I have seen some of those Polish words in print, and I have no idea how to pronounce Polish, though my grandmother spoke it! All those z's! In fact I am lucky if I remember how to write my mother's maiden name. :-? I can just imagine you practicing your Polish words at the airport and the Polish people being amused...Good for you for trying! I certainly plan to try, though I'm sure I will sound pitiful too.

I am interested in the art movement "Young Poland" decorating the churches too.

Slovenia looks interesting but as you all say, we can't do it all in one trip.

Well, I've got to go, it's back to the salt mines for me... I mean, I've got to go to the bookstore and get some guidebooks for Eastern Europe!

GSteed

Kraków. Poland is actually in Central Europe, Eastern Europe begins at Moscow! The history of Poland is one of many 'Polands'. Today's Poland begain after WWII. Pre-war Poland lost much of its Eastern land and gained land in the West. Poland lost 6,000,000 of its people during WWII. Today Poland is embroiled in political controversy. As a result of the runoff election, a president was elected by a coalition of different minority groups. Read Norman Davies. An insightful novel is Mitchner's, Poland. There is an ongoing emigration of Poles to Western EU countries. 200,000 to Ireland and 500,000 to Britain. Doctors are leaving for Norway! Be that as it may, Polish beer is really good. Personal security is assured. And Poles like Americans.

ira

Hi M,

I also suggest Krakow, Prague and Vienna.

I also strongly recommend a visit to Auschwitz while you are in Krakow.

skye5

While we were in Krakow, we also included a trip to the shrine of Our Lady of Chestahova...I am sure that is an incorrect spelling...but you will be able to locate it. Ira is correct in suggesting a visit to Auschwitz. Do not pass up the opportunity to go there !!!

teacher33

I loved Krakow. I second PegontheRoad's rec. of RickSteve's Eastern Europe and all those who said to go to Auschwitz. Also get out to Zakopane. I was there in May and they had just shut down the ski areas a few days before. There was still snow on the mountains. It was beautiful and very different from Krakow.

The "Let's Go-EAstern Europe" is a good source of train schedules and some things that Rick does not cover. However, Rick does provide good walking tour guides of cities. ( I know that to geographers, etc. Poland is not really "Eastern Europe" but that is the way guidebooks are titled.)

In Krakow the Muzeum Czartoryskich was fascinating. It was a collection of all sorts of things, but what I really enjoyed was the painting "Lady with an Ermine", only one of three paintings of women by Leonardo da Vinci. The museum is small enough so that one can stand and enjoy the picture. I found it as fascinating as "Mona Lisa" and in a much more serene setting.

You mentioned Czestochowa. (Pronounced chen-sto-HO-va)Trains run from Krakow and take about 2 1/2 hours.
I had looked forward to visiting here, but was not prepared for the mob scene. Of course, it was a Saturday in May, so September might be different. Imagine a couple football fields full of cars, another football field of tour busses, and another full of minibusses and all of their passengers disgorged into the monastery. Plus the streets of the town were full of parked cars. I joined a tour with an English speaking priest. He took us through and at one point he led us right through a chapel (between the congregation and altar!) where mass was being said. I felt as if it took away all holiness from such a sacred place.

That said, I am glad I went, but don't think I'd go back. Perhaps if I had been prepared for the crowds....

Altogether I had 5 nights in Krakow and one in Zakopane and felt as if I had barely touched the surface. I want to go back to Krakow some day.

You have had several comments about which cities to include. My vote is Krakow, Budapest, and Vienna.

By the way, I believe the expression "back to the salt mines" is biblical in origin. My mother used to use the expression all the time. My ancestors are from the British Isles.

noe847

I'd give 5 nights to Krakow, as Poland is your focus AND you are thinking of day trips. 4 nights is good for Prague, and you could do a day trip in that span of time. Vienna could use another night. It's a large city with lots to see and do, especially art, music, and history. Don't forget you will have jet lag in there the first day (I assume you're coming from N. America) and your last day will typically be for travel home.

My college aged daughters love Vienna (including the shopping.) They absolutely adored their time in Prague. We have not been to Krakow, but it is the top of my list to visit sometime in the next 2 years.

Melissa5

GSteed: Thanks for the history lesson! I love to learn all about a country before I go. I will check out the book you mentioned. I think it is due to Rick Steves book that so many on-line are mixing up Central europe with Eastern Europe. Rick has a book on Eastern Europe that I was browsing through and included in his Eastern europe book is Poland, Czech Republic, and Hungary...and Slovenia...Therefore, being geographically challenged, I now have Rick's geography in my brain...

Ira! You are the famous Ira who helps so much with travellers planning Italy trips... Nice to chat again... You are good with itineraries. Krakow, Prague, and Vienna sounds good. (I still need to do a lot of reading, though...I am just starting. I have browsed through bookstore guidebooks but haven't bought one yet for Central/Eastern Europe except for Rick Steves Europe Through the Back Door 2007. It seems like most people are suggesting Krakow and Prague, and either Budapest or Vienna. Gives me some interesting places to look into. I think it will partly depends on transportation convenience. I am hoping to avoid driving. Trains are relaxing in Europe, I think...and walking in the cities...Sometimes a bus here or there...Ira, you have travelled a lot, what are YOUR favorite cities in Eastern/Central Europe, and why? I am curious.

sky5 and ira: I am scared to go to Auschwitz, but may do it anyway. I am scared that it will be dark and depressing. I have seen the important movies such as Schindler's List and many other movies. It is important that we learn about the best and worst of human nature. But my daughter, who is in college, just told me we HAVE to go to Auschwitz. I guess that means she IS coming on this trip! My family's Polish history doesn't include the concentration camps, thank God, but Poland has a lot of tough times in its history and I know they had a hard life in Poland but seem to enjoy the polka I can tell you that!

sky5: I haven't heard of Our Lady of Chestahova...but Our Lady seems to get around...perhaps she is drawn where the people need her...

teacher33: Thanks for all your great info and the unpronouncable museum in Krakow which I am going to make a note of with the da Vinci painting! I notice you left Prague off of your recommended list and I would love to know why you prefer to recommend Budapest, Krakow, and Vienna. It helps a lot to know about what strikes other people...I like to get a full picture, and the guidebooks make everywhere sound the same unfortunately so you cannot differentiate...

noe847: it is interesting to hear that your college-aged daughters enjoyed Vienna and Prauge. What did they like about it? Yes, we are coming from NOrth America...actually california.

<b>Question: Is PRAGUE always crowded?</b>

I have read a few trip reports on fodors, and I am concerned...is Prague always crowded and mobbed with people, and Zakopane too? (Might have spelled that wrong?) Our trip is aimed for September 2008. I thought that would be a good time but I read in someone's trip report that September was still crowded!

When I visited Florence, Italy I was very unhappy as it was so crammed with people, even at 11:00 pm it was still crammed! Unbelievable! That was in June. Traffic jams, smog, people, noisy scooters...

Now, I loved Rome, Italy...Rome is more spread out than Florence, so Rome didn't &quot;feel&quot; crowded to me. Also we got in the museum lines at noon which was the least crowded time...no lines actually at noon. That was the same trip, what a difference in crowds. I think florence is too compact for me, which makes it feel very crowded...

any thoughts on planning a trip to Eastern/Central Europe where I can have some places with lighter crowds? Is Krakow less crowded than Prague? How does Vienna feel in terms of crowds?

I consider it crowded when you feel like you cannot even spread out your arms and turn in a circle without bumping into people from sun-rise til midnight...that is how Florence was!!! I just wanted to escape! In contrast, we did find some &quot;elbow&quot; room in Rome and Venice, so I enjoyed it more.

Thanks! I can't wait to get back to the bookstore.

Amy

I'm not sure if you would have already read this in searching on here, but here's a link to my trip report about Poland and Lithuania http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...p;tid=34841274 I could easily have stayed in Krakow even longer and in Warsaw as well. The Nemunastour guesthouse in Kaunas, Lithuania seems to fit a lot of your criteria, by the way.

Happy trails!

lucy_d

Melissa,
You sound really excited about planning this trip! A few random thoughts:

Here's a link to the salt mines near Krakow. It's really interesting. I'm usually more into art and museums and was pleasantly surprised. You can google Wieliczka Salt Mines and get lots of results.

http://www.kopalnia.pl/home.php?acti...anguage=2&amp;

Tip: Do not buy any souvienrs made of salt. They will melt! You do not want to know how I know this.

Yes, Auschwitz is difficult. I've vistied there twice, both times accompanied by a survivor and a tour guide. As others have noted, I think it's important for young people to make the visit, especially since your family comes from Poland. I highly recommend you do a tour rather than attempt this by yourself. Here's the link to the official site:

http://www.auschwitz-muzeum.oswiecim...tart/index.php

If you decide on Vienna, I think your girls will love the Imperial Apartments and Sissi Museum located at the Hofburg. Here's a link:

http://www.hofburg-wien.at/en/site/publicdir/

If you don't want to spend hours upon hours in an art museum (which I usually do), check out the Belvedere in Vienna. It's much smaller than the Kunsthistorisches Museum. As someone noted, Klimt's the Kiss is located there.

As for Prague, of course do a tour of the Castle, but get there early! I'd make it the first stop of the day. Also, I recommend doing a tour of the Jewish District. One of my personal favorites in Prague is the Municipal House. To see upstairs, you must do the tour. It takes about an hour, and the tours begin at 10:00 a.m. It's such a pleasant experience. It's a great place to eat lunch, too.

You've got plenty of time to do your planning, and it looks like you're off to a great start!

ira

Hi M,

&gt;I am scared to go to Auschwitz, ...

Well, you don't HAVE to, because you will also have a chance to visit the Memorials in Prague as well as the Terezin camp.

However, because you are of Polish background, I do think that you should visit Auschwitz. It will be sobering, but not terrifying.

I haven't yet been farther East than Vienna and Prague, so I can't help you about Krakow and Budapest, but we did very much like both P and V.

Enjoy your visit.

GSteed

Comment...Brit weekend party goers who used to do Praga/Prague are now coming to Poland! Ł&oacute;dź being one stop using Ryanair.
My Polish neighbors tout Łańcut.

cambe

Hi Melissa,

When you were visiting NI last year, I was beginning my holiday to Central Europe.

My Itinerary was
Prague - Olomouc - Krakow - Budapest - Vienna - Melk - Hallstatt - Salsburg in 17 days. By the time I got home, I was exhausted so you are very wise to limit the number of places you visit.

I travelled by train throughout and it was fine, absolutely no problem. The reason I stopped in Olomouc was because it is a very long train ride from Prague to Krakow and this was recommended as a good stop off point. Olomouc is much smaller than Prague and has a lovely town square - recommended.

My favourite place in Prague was the Jewish Museum. It is actually several Synagogues in the Jewish area - one of them has the names of the people who died in the Holocaust. I spent a full day there and learned such a lot about the Jewish religion. I also greatly enjoyed the various recitals in the churches (the churches are gorgeous)

Auschwitz &amp; Birkenau was not IMO scary and in a strange way not depressing either. I know that sounds odd but the Polish people have done a super job in preserving it and done it in a very caring way (as Ira has already said lots of Polish people died there as well).

I took the night train from Krakow to Budapest (was in a single 1st class cabin and apart from the 2 passport checks I slept the whole way). I hadn’t really researched Budapest before I went and included it as it seemed to be on the way to Vienna - loved it, it is now possibly my favourite city.

I used the Lonely Planet guide to Central Europe, which described Vienna and the ‘Big Wedding Cake’. It is a very grand city and as Mozart is, my favourite composer it had a lot to interest me but I still preferred Budapest.

If you need accommodation in Krakow I can highly recommend The Tricus Guest house, which is close to the main square and within walking distance of the train station http://www.trecius.krakow.pl/uk/index.html

Have a great trip

Helen

BTilke

A place your daughters might enjoy is the fabulous graphic design/poster store near the main square in the old town. The owner is very knowledgeable about the outstanding graphics design scene in Poland and speaks fluent English. He has overseen exhibits on Polish graphic arts at places like Indiana University (of PA). The poster selection is superb and the prices are very reasonable, plus the staff will mail the posters to your home for you (we bought several posters from them last year and had them mailed to the U.S. and the UK and they arrived with no problems).
http://cracowpostergallery.com/galeria2.php

dmjapril

Has anybody been on the Dunajec River Raft Cruise from Krakow? If so, would you recommend it and which tour operator did you use?
Thanks