Please, would anyone be willing to help me regarding a cell phone?
Mar 28th, 2005, 02:47 PM
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Please, would anyone be willing to help me regarding a cell phone?
I'm sorry I am so intimidated about buying a cell phone for Italy!! We are leaving in two months, and need a cell phone before we go. (we need to make a phone call immediately upon arriving in Rome).
I have been reading up and asking questions about GSM and unlocked cell phones, and have checked them out on ebay. I don't mind a used one, as we will probably only use it on this trip.
The problem is, there are billions (okay, slight exageration) of cell phones on ebay and I am so confused! Would anyone be willing to help me out by pointing me in the right direction, or looking at an auction for me and telling me if it would work?
I'm confused about providers... if it says "ATT" or "Cingular", does it still work with a SIM card, and at good rates? Do I need a special charger for overseas?
Any one? Any help? of any kind? I would so much appreciate it, and then I promise to keep my mouth shut on this board about cell phones! (unless it is to offer my expert opinion in the future.)
Billie
I have been reading up and asking questions about GSM and unlocked cell phones, and have checked them out on ebay. I don't mind a used one, as we will probably only use it on this trip.
The problem is, there are billions (okay, slight exageration) of cell phones on ebay and I am so confused! Would anyone be willing to help me out by pointing me in the right direction, or looking at an auction for me and telling me if it would work?
I'm confused about providers... if it says "ATT" or "Cingular", does it still work with a SIM card, and at good rates? Do I need a special charger for overseas?
Any one? Any help? of any kind? I would so much appreciate it, and then I promise to keep my mouth shut on this board about cell phones! (unless it is to offer my expert opinion in the future.)
Billie
Mar 28th, 2005, 04:09 PM
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Back to the basics:
In Europe and most of the world, cellphone uses the GSM protocol at 900MHz and 1800MHz frequencies. Some carriers use 900, some 1800, some both. So, it's best to have a phone with both 900 and 1800. [In the US, T-Mobile uses 1900; AT&T/Cingular uses 850 and 1900.] A tri-band phone originally sold by AT&T or Cingular will have 850, 1800 and 1900; with no 900 coverage. Avoid them. A T-Mobile USA tri-band or AT&T/Cingular quad-band will have both 900 and 1800 for maximum compatibility in Europe.
Second, if a phone is labelled "unlocked", then it can use any SIM card in the world. If it doesn't say so, then it may only work with a particular carrier - be it T-Mobile USA, Cingular or AT&T. Some phones may actually be unlocked without saying so, but you can't know for sure. Avoid them.
Most tri-band phones come with a power supply that can take 110-240V. So, all you need is a plug adapter for Europe.
So, in short, you need "Unlock", "900" and "1800". If you see all three in the eBay description, you should be fine.
In Europe and most of the world, cellphone uses the GSM protocol at 900MHz and 1800MHz frequencies. Some carriers use 900, some 1800, some both. So, it's best to have a phone with both 900 and 1800. [In the US, T-Mobile uses 1900; AT&T/Cingular uses 850 and 1900.] A tri-band phone originally sold by AT&T or Cingular will have 850, 1800 and 1900; with no 900 coverage. Avoid them. A T-Mobile USA tri-band or AT&T/Cingular quad-band will have both 900 and 1800 for maximum compatibility in Europe.
Second, if a phone is labelled "unlocked", then it can use any SIM card in the world. If it doesn't say so, then it may only work with a particular carrier - be it T-Mobile USA, Cingular or AT&T. Some phones may actually be unlocked without saying so, but you can't know for sure. Avoid them.
Most tri-band phones come with a power supply that can take 110-240V. So, all you need is a plug adapter for Europe.
So, in short, you need "Unlock", "900" and "1800". If you see all three in the eBay description, you should be fine.
Mar 28th, 2005, 04:16 PM
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I've tried to explain this before but here goes again...
The US (and certain other countries in the Americas) for a variety of reasons, some very legitemate, decided in the early 1990's to go in a different direction regarding mobile phones. The US was a little slow to latch onto GSM whereas Europeans decided to make that sort of their main mobile phone technology. Without getting into a long winded discussion of just what technology is best, let's just say GSM is the most flexible technology as the phone is dependent on a little chip called a sim card. Change the sim card, the phone number, the carrier and everything about the phone changes. Other technologies don't work like that (such as the one Verizon uses in the US).
Well the first national GSM carrier in the United States was T mobile. It operates on a frequency of 1900; European GSM carriers operate on either 900 or 1800...those 2 frequencies in the US are used for other things and when licensing began for mobile phones in the US the US did not want to displace those other things off of those frequencies for mobile phones. So for years, GSM in Europe was either 900 or 1800 while in the US it was 1900. T mobile which is part of an international consortium so to speak began making available to its customers tri band phones which had all 3 of those frequencies and allowed international roaming so t mobile customers could use their tri band phones in Europe...no problem. While there is some controversy about this, for the most part in big cities in Europe you don't need both 900 and 1800 and can get by with one or the other but some carriers use one exclusively so phones without both 900 and 1800 are at a disadvantage in Europe perhaps not a large one but a disadvantage nonetheless.
So far so good...in the last few years AT&T Wireless and Cingular (now merged into one big happy family) began GSM networks and began phasing out their older networks. Ah but they had licenses to operate on 800 (which is identical to 850) and T mobile had sort of a stranglehold (not a complete one) on 1900...so as they (Cingular and AT&T) expanded their GSM networks, they began using a great deal of 850. So the phones they were selling had to make provisions to have both 850 and 1900...ah but now they wanted to go into the business of international roaming but guess what, the manufacturers were making tri band phones. So tri band phones sold by At&T and Cingular which had to have 850 and 1900 were left with only one European frequency which for the most part is 1800. Now Sony Ericsson phones have different model numbers for their phones depending on whether they are world class phones (900/1800/1900) or so called US phones (850/1800/1900)..A Sony Ericsson T610 is a world phone with 900/1800/1900 while the T616 is a US phone, almost identical to the T610 for the most part, with 850/1800/1900.
OTOH Nokia which is not terribly interested in the US market does make phones for both the US and World market. For example, the Nokia 3100 is a world phone and the Nokia 3100B is a US phone with 850/1800/1900 but sometimes you don't realize you are getting or being sold on e bay the B model which is basically the same phone but lacks 900.
Of course the solution seems to be quad band phones with 850/900/1800/1900 but other than Motorola none of the major manufacturers feel there is much need to go in that direction as technology is developing very fast and the whole thing might be obsolete in a few years anyway. Motorola phones are generally considered to be inferior to SE or Nokia phones (not necessarily my opinion but the opinion of others)...
So..where does that leave us. If you buy a tri band GSM phone that is branded Cingular and/or AT&T, chances are it is 850/1800/1900. Will it work in Europe? For the most part yes but there might be areas where only 900 is used by a particular carrier and you cuold run into some trouble although for the most part not in the large cities.
OTOH if you get a T mobile US world class tri band phone, then you will have both of the needed European frequencies but if you want to use say a US prepaid sim card (or a Canadian one) you lack 850 and that could be a problem here.
I'll let you in on a dirty little secret however. If you go to www.moball.com, they have been offering GSM phones with services both dual bands (900/1800) for around $49 and tri bands (900/1800/1900) for around $99. Although the web site says to the contrary the phones they have been selling are unlocked so you need not use the overpriced service that comes with it. You can buy the phone, toss away the O2 sim card and use any European prepaid with these phones. They are pretty much a better deal IMHO than e bay currently although if somebody from mobal reads this, perhaps they will start locking their phones. But then again they are Nokias and Nokia unlocking codes are freely available on the web.
Hope that answers the questions on the frequency issue. If you want a phone for Europe, you probably would prefer to have a phone that has both 900 and 1800 although again you might be able to get away without 900 for the most part.
The US (and certain other countries in the Americas) for a variety of reasons, some very legitemate, decided in the early 1990's to go in a different direction regarding mobile phones. The US was a little slow to latch onto GSM whereas Europeans decided to make that sort of their main mobile phone technology. Without getting into a long winded discussion of just what technology is best, let's just say GSM is the most flexible technology as the phone is dependent on a little chip called a sim card. Change the sim card, the phone number, the carrier and everything about the phone changes. Other technologies don't work like that (such as the one Verizon uses in the US).
Well the first national GSM carrier in the United States was T mobile. It operates on a frequency of 1900; European GSM carriers operate on either 900 or 1800...those 2 frequencies in the US are used for other things and when licensing began for mobile phones in the US the US did not want to displace those other things off of those frequencies for mobile phones. So for years, GSM in Europe was either 900 or 1800 while in the US it was 1900. T mobile which is part of an international consortium so to speak began making available to its customers tri band phones which had all 3 of those frequencies and allowed international roaming so t mobile customers could use their tri band phones in Europe...no problem. While there is some controversy about this, for the most part in big cities in Europe you don't need both 900 and 1800 and can get by with one or the other but some carriers use one exclusively so phones without both 900 and 1800 are at a disadvantage in Europe perhaps not a large one but a disadvantage nonetheless.
So far so good...in the last few years AT&T Wireless and Cingular (now merged into one big happy family) began GSM networks and began phasing out their older networks. Ah but they had licenses to operate on 800 (which is identical to 850) and T mobile had sort of a stranglehold (not a complete one) on 1900...so as they (Cingular and AT&T) expanded their GSM networks, they began using a great deal of 850. So the phones they were selling had to make provisions to have both 850 and 1900...ah but now they wanted to go into the business of international roaming but guess what, the manufacturers were making tri band phones. So tri band phones sold by At&T and Cingular which had to have 850 and 1900 were left with only one European frequency which for the most part is 1800. Now Sony Ericsson phones have different model numbers for their phones depending on whether they are world class phones (900/1800/1900) or so called US phones (850/1800/1900)..A Sony Ericsson T610 is a world phone with 900/1800/1900 while the T616 is a US phone, almost identical to the T610 for the most part, with 850/1800/1900.
OTOH Nokia which is not terribly interested in the US market does make phones for both the US and World market. For example, the Nokia 3100 is a world phone and the Nokia 3100B is a US phone with 850/1800/1900 but sometimes you don't realize you are getting or being sold on e bay the B model which is basically the same phone but lacks 900.
Of course the solution seems to be quad band phones with 850/900/1800/1900 but other than Motorola none of the major manufacturers feel there is much need to go in that direction as technology is developing very fast and the whole thing might be obsolete in a few years anyway. Motorola phones are generally considered to be inferior to SE or Nokia phones (not necessarily my opinion but the opinion of others)...
So..where does that leave us. If you buy a tri band GSM phone that is branded Cingular and/or AT&T, chances are it is 850/1800/1900. Will it work in Europe? For the most part yes but there might be areas where only 900 is used by a particular carrier and you cuold run into some trouble although for the most part not in the large cities.
OTOH if you get a T mobile US world class tri band phone, then you will have both of the needed European frequencies but if you want to use say a US prepaid sim card (or a Canadian one) you lack 850 and that could be a problem here.
I'll let you in on a dirty little secret however. If you go to www.moball.com, they have been offering GSM phones with services both dual bands (900/1800) for around $49 and tri bands (900/1800/1900) for around $99. Although the web site says to the contrary the phones they have been selling are unlocked so you need not use the overpriced service that comes with it. You can buy the phone, toss away the O2 sim card and use any European prepaid with these phones. They are pretty much a better deal IMHO than e bay currently although if somebody from mobal reads this, perhaps they will start locking their phones. But then again they are Nokias and Nokia unlocking codes are freely available on the web.
Hope that answers the questions on the frequency issue. If you want a phone for Europe, you probably would prefer to have a phone that has both 900 and 1800 although again you might be able to get away without 900 for the most part.
Mar 28th, 2005, 04:18 PM
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And just to add one more bit of information. There is no more AT&T Wireless (at least in CA). It is now Cingular. And since their customers are now directed to use Cingular's website as the AT&T one evidently no longer exsist I would assume this is true throughtout the nation.
Mar 28th, 2005, 04:19 PM
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Most world phones today comes with chargers that clearly indicate 110-240 so they can be used in both North America and Europe; although you need adapter plugs.
If by some chance you get a charger which has only 110 and wish to use it in Europe, you have several choices.
The one I found that works best is there are little gizmos out there that plug into the wall sockets, are dual voltage and accept the automobile car adapter attached to the phone. I bring those gizmos with me to Europe and the auto charger rather than the mains charger but it really shouldn't be a problem.
If by some chance you get a charger which has only 110 and wish to use it in Europe, you have several choices.
The one I found that works best is there are little gizmos out there that plug into the wall sockets, are dual voltage and accept the automobile car adapter attached to the phone. I bring those gizmos with me to Europe and the auto charger rather than the mains charger but it really shouldn't be a problem.
Mar 28th, 2005, 04:38 PM
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Would anyone be willing to tell me if this would work?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...77584&rd=1
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...77584&rd=1
Mar 28th, 2005, 06:13 PM
#10
Another idea: I read in the most recent issue of National Geographic Traveler magazine that Sprint leases GSM (aka "world"
phones for $35 a week. I think you still need to buy pre-paid phone minutes, but this sounds like the easiest and perhaps cheapest way to go.
phones for $35 a week. I think you still need to buy pre-paid phone minutes, but this sounds like the easiest and perhaps cheapest way to go.
Mar 28th, 2005, 06:28 PM
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nbbrown,
Yes, the motorola phone on the ebay link you posted will work.
You will have to buy a plug adapter to make american flat prongs fit in cylindrical italian electrical sockets. (will probably cost you about $5.00 or less)
Yes, the motorola phone on the ebay link you posted will work.
You will have to buy a plug adapter to make american flat prongs fit in cylindrical italian electrical sockets. (will probably cost you about $5.00 or less)
Mar 28th, 2005, 06:47 PM
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If I were you I would wait and purchase a phone in Italy. Phones there are inexpensive and unlocked and new. If you get a used one on ebay you won't be able to try it out until you're in Europe, and if it doesn't work the return period will likely be over once you return. I have purchased many items on ebay, and the only problems have been with anything electronic.
Before you rent a phone, do a search on this forum for that topic. There are many stories about people who were charged outrageous per-minute prices for overseas calls and other testimonials from people who were charged the stated fee with no add-ons. You'll get an idea of what companies you want to avoid, at least.
Before you rent a phone, do a search on this forum for that topic. There are many stories about people who were charged outrageous per-minute prices for overseas calls and other testimonials from people who were charged the stated fee with no add-ons. You'll get an idea of what companies you want to avoid, at least.
Mar 29th, 2005, 04:54 PM
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This thread is really informative for me, and I would like to add related questions and hope that some of the same experts can help me.
For our upcoming trip to Italy, I have about decided to buy a phone when we arrive in Rome (for previous trips I have rented and had good experiences, but the overseas calling rates are very high and I expect to be making quite a few calls to the office this trip).
I plan to buy an unlocked phone with the expectation of using it elsewhere in Europe in future trips in the next few years.
My questions are (1) is there much diffence in vendors in a city like Rome? I do not want to spend a lot of time shopping for a phone or trying to understand the technology. Is there a particular type store I should look for, and/or a particular SIM card?
(2) Are there significant differences in the intra-Italy and overseas rates, depending on which carrier I end up with? Is that determined by the SIM card?
Thank you for any advice.
For our upcoming trip to Italy, I have about decided to buy a phone when we arrive in Rome (for previous trips I have rented and had good experiences, but the overseas calling rates are very high and I expect to be making quite a few calls to the office this trip).
I plan to buy an unlocked phone with the expectation of using it elsewhere in Europe in future trips in the next few years.
My questions are (1) is there much diffence in vendors in a city like Rome? I do not want to spend a lot of time shopping for a phone or trying to understand the technology. Is there a particular type store I should look for, and/or a particular SIM card?
(2) Are there significant differences in the intra-Italy and overseas rates, depending on which carrier I end up with? Is that determined by the SIM card?
Thank you for any advice.
Mar 29th, 2005, 06:34 PM
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As far as the carrier issue, go to www.prepaidgsm.net and look on the operator page and click on Italy and each of the Italian operators is described along with the basic rates. It is very accurate, especially for Italy, as the founder and operator of the site is Italian and lives in Italy.
As far as buying a phone, I really can't help you as I have not been to Italy lately but if Roma is like most other Euopean cities, there will be mobile phone stores galore almost on every block and the prices for basic phones can't be very different...the higher the price the more whistles the phone has such as camera, internet access etc but a basic phone really shouldn't be all that different from various stores.
As far as buying a phone, I really can't help you as I have not been to Italy lately but if Roma is like most other Euopean cities, there will be mobile phone stores galore almost on every block and the prices for basic phones can't be very different...the higher the price the more whistles the phone has such as camera, internet access etc but a basic phone really shouldn't be all that different from various stores.
Mar 31st, 2005, 04:55 AM
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Hello XYZ123, I thought I was all finished bothering you with cell phone questions, but just one more if you pleaese.
I spoke with AT&T (now Cingular) yesterday regarding my current US calling plan. I was told that they (AT&T) are not offering any new plans and are phasing out their old plans (digital) - that eventually I will get a letter saying I must "switch" to Cingular (I thought this was automatic), paying a new "activation fee" etc.
So.....I've decided to make the switch now to a better priced plan (T-Mobil for example so as to be prepared for both US and International calling). Here is my question - I am being offered a new phone from T-Mobil. There tri-ban phones do not have 850. Do I need 850 to use the phone in the US? If I don't have 850 band, will I still be able to speak with customers on cell phones that are operating on the 850 band?
The "free" phones being offered are Motorola V180, V300, C650 or Siemens CF62T. The only Nokia phone offered is a 3660 for $149. Are the Motorola phones dependable? I have always had Nokias and love them.
I bet this sounds like such a stupid question, but the whole cell phone premise is such a mystery to me. I can't thank you enough for taking the time to guide us through the maze.
I spoke with AT&T (now Cingular) yesterday regarding my current US calling plan. I was told that they (AT&T) are not offering any new plans and are phasing out their old plans (digital) - that eventually I will get a letter saying I must "switch" to Cingular (I thought this was automatic), paying a new "activation fee" etc.
So.....I've decided to make the switch now to a better priced plan (T-Mobil for example so as to be prepared for both US and International calling). Here is my question - I am being offered a new phone from T-Mobil. There tri-ban phones do not have 850. Do I need 850 to use the phone in the US? If I don't have 850 band, will I still be able to speak with customers on cell phones that are operating on the 850 band?
The "free" phones being offered are Motorola V180, V300, C650 or Siemens CF62T. The only Nokia phone offered is a 3660 for $149. Are the Motorola phones dependable? I have always had Nokias and love them.
I bet this sounds like such a stupid question, but the whole cell phone premise is such a mystery to me. I can't thank you enough for taking the time to guide us through the maze.
Mar 31st, 2005, 05:33 AM
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If you are on the t mobile network, you will not need 850 in the United States. As a matter of fact, T mobile has deactivated the 850 band on many of the motorolas it sells. If you roam in Canada, this could be a problem. Currently T mobile in areas where it does not have service does not allow roaming on 850; it might have to in the future but for the most part, at present, the answer is no if you're a t mobile customer you don't need 850 in the US.
As far as motorolas, I have no experience with them. On many bulletin boards, it is alleged that motorolas are inferior to nokias in terms of voice quality and ability to hold a signal but I can't attest to that personally.
I too like T mobile as it has the best rates and the best international roaming rates (free to sign up after 3 months of service)..T mobile also furnishes unlocking codes for phones it sells after 60 days.
If you wait a couple of weeks, T mobile is about to upgrade its phone line and will be offering the Nokia 3230 at a very good price (not free)...but you probably can't go wrong with the motorlas; e;specially given the price.
Remember one of the nice things about GSM, you can always switch your phone and buy any unlocked phone from web merchants and by simply switching the sim card, you keep your account features, something you can't do with a non GSM provider such as Verizon.
As far as motorolas, I have no experience with them. On many bulletin boards, it is alleged that motorolas are inferior to nokias in terms of voice quality and ability to hold a signal but I can't attest to that personally.
I too like T mobile as it has the best rates and the best international roaming rates (free to sign up after 3 months of service)..T mobile also furnishes unlocking codes for phones it sells after 60 days.
If you wait a couple of weeks, T mobile is about to upgrade its phone line and will be offering the Nokia 3230 at a very good price (not free)...but you probably can't go wrong with the motorlas; e;specially given the price.
Remember one of the nice things about GSM, you can always switch your phone and buy any unlocked phone from web merchants and by simply switching the sim card, you keep your account features, something you can't do with a non GSM provider such as Verizon.
