Please review my itinerary for Northern Italy in May 2025
Apr 16th, 2024, 05:47 PM
#21
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 594
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Karen,
I have enjoyed talking back and forth especially about transportation to CT. You do such a great job with your research, I am sure your trip will inspire so many itineraries!
Our situation was different because we were on a 10 day trip so time was of the essence. We were coming from Varenna, so that involved 3 trains, and 6+ hours and ending on the CT Express. By driving and parking, we saved 3 hours and could enjoy an extra half day there. After being there in October, on the Express, we mostly experienced standing room only, some pushing on scenarios and such full trains, that you could not always get on your first option, not talking about with luggage. There was no supervision and no, "please go ahead, you were first." The train station in Manorola would have been an easy one, however.
But at the end of your trip you would be heading to La Spezia, on the same train, with your luggage, to pick up your car for Tuscany. Since we were travelling with another couple, the car costs were shared, and the train costs would have been x4, so the price was the same. We did love just zipping out of there and heading for Tuscany.
And during your 3 nights in CT, maybe to escape after lunch, to some of these less visited, alternative CT suggestions, could be a nice break.
I am so happy your are considering Val d'Orcia, such an unbelievable experience.
Thanks for continuing to inspire all of us!
I have enjoyed talking back and forth especially about transportation to CT. You do such a great job with your research, I am sure your trip will inspire so many itineraries!
Our situation was different because we were on a 10 day trip so time was of the essence. We were coming from Varenna, so that involved 3 trains, and 6+ hours and ending on the CT Express. By driving and parking, we saved 3 hours and could enjoy an extra half day there. After being there in October, on the Express, we mostly experienced standing room only, some pushing on scenarios and such full trains, that you could not always get on your first option, not talking about with luggage. There was no supervision and no, "please go ahead, you were first." The train station in Manorola would have been an easy one, however.
But at the end of your trip you would be heading to La Spezia, on the same train, with your luggage, to pick up your car for Tuscany. Since we were travelling with another couple, the car costs were shared, and the train costs would have been x4, so the price was the same. We did love just zipping out of there and heading for Tuscany.
And during your 3 nights in CT, maybe to escape after lunch, to some of these less visited, alternative CT suggestions, could be a nice break.
I am so happy your are considering Val d'Orcia, such an unbelievable experience.
Thanks for continuing to inspire all of us!
Apr 17th, 2024, 05:19 AM
#22
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 8,497
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
5Terre trains:
I really don't know what you are talking about.
I suppose you will go from Milan by Intercity train (seat reservation compulsory) to La Spezia and take then a regional train for the last 8 minutes.
For example: Milan dp 8.05- La Spezia ar 11.21. There you will change into Regional train 3265 which stands already there and which cannot be full as it has it's origine at La Spezia and will leave at 11.44 only.
If you would stay at Monterosso instead of Manarola, no train change would be necessary.
I suppose you know exactly which walks you want to do during your 2 1/2 days stay at Manaarola.
I really don't know what you are talking about.
I suppose you will go from Milan by Intercity train (seat reservation compulsory) to La Spezia and take then a regional train for the last 8 minutes.
For example: Milan dp 8.05- La Spezia ar 11.21. There you will change into Regional train 3265 which stands already there and which cannot be full as it has it's origine at La Spezia and will leave at 11.44 only.
If you would stay at Monterosso instead of Manarola, no train change would be necessary.
I suppose you know exactly which walks you want to do during your 2 1/2 days stay at Manaarola.
Apr 17th, 2024, 08:04 AM
#24
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 594
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi, neckervd,
Karen and I had talked on another post where she inquired about our experience and why we made the decisions we did.
As, I said earlier on this post, their situation is different.
We were 2 couples coming from Varenna. So our route would have been, Varenna-Milan-(Sestre Levante or La Spezia)-Manorola, and it would have taken over 6 hours.
The cost for these train tickets would have been about $180 for 4, including the fare to then get to La Spezia to get our car. So for us that equaled the cost of the car for 2 more days, and gave us more time in Manarola. We also loved just zipping out of there and heading to Lucca.They might decide that the cost for just the 2 of them might not be worth it.
We had also been warned that you could stand on the train from Varenna to Milan Also, that even though we requested an automatic transmission car, the chances of one being there when we arrived to get it was greater in Milan than in La Spezia.
Is is true that La Spezia is an origination site for the train, But it is also where the cruisers when disembarking, get on to enjoy their day. We picked a time frame where our full day only had a few hundred cruisers arriving, but the afternoon we actually arrived, had close to 10,000 descending down from 2 mega ships.
They are coming from Milan, so the times are much shorter and your suggestion to maybe stay in Monterosso and take advantage of a nonstop train is a great one! It just depends what town calls to them.
Karen and I had talked on another post where she inquired about our experience and why we made the decisions we did.
As, I said earlier on this post, their situation is different.
We were 2 couples coming from Varenna. So our route would have been, Varenna-Milan-(Sestre Levante or La Spezia)-Manorola, and it would have taken over 6 hours.
The cost for these train tickets would have been about $180 for 4, including the fare to then get to La Spezia to get our car. So for us that equaled the cost of the car for 2 more days, and gave us more time in Manarola. We also loved just zipping out of there and heading to Lucca.They might decide that the cost for just the 2 of them might not be worth it.
We had also been warned that you could stand on the train from Varenna to Milan Also, that even though we requested an automatic transmission car, the chances of one being there when we arrived to get it was greater in Milan than in La Spezia.
Is is true that La Spezia is an origination site for the train, But it is also where the cruisers when disembarking, get on to enjoy their day. We picked a time frame where our full day only had a few hundred cruisers arriving, but the afternoon we actually arrived, had close to 10,000 descending down from 2 mega ships.
They are coming from Milan, so the times are much shorter and your suggestion to maybe stay in Monterosso and take advantage of a nonstop train is a great one! It just depends what town calls to them.
Apr 18th, 2024, 09:42 AM
#25
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 4,498
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
neckervd, thank you so much for all of the train information. Looks like we can visit Parma from either Milan or Bologna. I will check out Monterosso, too.
coral22, thanks again for explaining why you drove and the benefits and disadvantages. All this information helps a lot. We have time to decide what we will finally do. I can't imagine 10,000 cruiseline people descending all at once. I will research cruise ship schedules so that we can hopefully plan around that. It worked for us in Dubrovnik and Santorini.
Today I received my Micheline Green Guide for Tuscany which will be very helpful in planning that portion of the trip.
coral22, thanks again for explaining why you drove and the benefits and disadvantages. All this information helps a lot. We have time to decide what we will finally do. I can't imagine 10,000 cruiseline people descending all at once. I will research cruise ship schedules so that we can hopefully plan around that. It worked for us in Dubrovnik and Santorini.
Today I received my Micheline Green Guide for Tuscany which will be very helpful in planning that portion of the trip.
Apr 18th, 2024, 11:50 AM
#26
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 8,497
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
https://www.cruisetimetables.com/las...e-may2025.html
La Spezia cruise port gets obviously more and more important (with up to 5 cruise ships per week).
La Spezia cruise port gets obviously more and more important (with up to 5 cruise ships per week).
Apr 19th, 2024, 08:50 AM
#27
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 4,498
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
https://www.cruisetimetables.com/las...e-may2025.html
La Spezia cruise port gets obviously more and more important (with up to 5 cruise ships per week).
La Spezia cruise port gets obviously more and more important (with up to 5 cruise ships per week).
May 14th, 2024, 02:12 PM
#30
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 117
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think we will have 21 days. We cannot fly direct from California so we can either fly into Florence or - if needed- Rome. I would prefer not to have to go into Rome. Luckily I moved our miles into Air France/Flying Blue last month when they had a 25% bonus so we have plenty of miles to get back and forth. We could fly home from Milan.
So interesting that your son/or daughter went to school In Prague. What an education that must have been. I hope they liked it. Coincidentally my son in-law did his Junior year abroad also in Prague.
So interesting that your son/or daughter went to school In Prague. What an education that must have been. I hope they liked it. Coincidentally my son in-law did his Junior year abroad also in Prague.
May 14th, 2024, 05:26 PM
#31
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 608
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I gotta dissent here: this itinerary has too many stops. 9 different places in 34 days is going to wear you down. I've been everywhere you've listed and indeed they are all great destinations (and I agree as well with the other posters that Genoa and Siena are unmissable). But the better strategy is to pick say 4-5 places to stay and use them as bases to see the others. Potential bases include:
Florence (for Bologna, Lucca, Siena, Volterra, San Gimi)
Manarola (Genoa, Lucca)
Venice (Verona, Ravenna)
Como
Dolomites
If you want to stick to the original plan, I'd say 4 nights in Milan and 4 nights in Bologna are too much. To see their sites, you really only need a full day in each. Milan is ... just not my thing. Bologna, by contrast, is architecturally very striking. It's also a young city, energetic, and the food is delicious. It's my favorite city in Italy. But you would have a couple days there where you've already seen everything and you might feel the time is redundant.
Florence (for Bologna, Lucca, Siena, Volterra, San Gimi)
Manarola (Genoa, Lucca)
Venice (Verona, Ravenna)
Como
Dolomites
If you want to stick to the original plan, I'd say 4 nights in Milan and 4 nights in Bologna are too much. To see their sites, you really only need a full day in each. Milan is ... just not my thing. Bologna, by contrast, is architecturally very striking. It's also a young city, energetic, and the food is delicious. It's my favorite city in Italy. But you would have a couple days there where you've already seen everything and you might feel the time is redundant.
Last edited by RAR; May 14th, 2024 at 05:34 PM.
May 15th, 2024, 08:53 AM
#32
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 535
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Karen, count me in as someone for whom was not that taken with Lucca though to be fair we were only there for a few hours stopping on our way from Levanto in the Cinque Terre region to San Quirico in the Val d'Orcia where we stayed for a week several years ago. The Val d'Orcia region to me is the most beautiful area of Tuscany with Pienza and Montepulciano being a couple of our favourite towns. We visited La Foce which I found very moving having read Iris Origo's diary 'War in Val d'Orcia' which I highly recommend.
May 15th, 2024, 09:03 AM
#33
One way to escape the crowds in the Cinque Terre is to stay at Hotel Porto Roca up on a bluff overlooking the sea just above Monterosso. We loved it there! Great dining too.
We enjoyed staying inside the walls at Lucca for four nights. We did not go outside the walls during our stay,such a magical place.
We enjoyed staying inside the walls at Lucca for four nights. We did not go outside the walls during our stay,such a magical place.
May 16th, 2024, 06:11 AM
#34
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 4,498
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I gotta dissent here: this itinerary has too many stops. 9 different places in 34 days is going to wear you down. I've been everywhere you've listed and indeed they are all great destinations (and I agree as well with the other posters that Genoa and Siena are unmissable). But the better strategy is to pick say 4-5 places to stay and use them as bases to see the others. Potential bases include:
Florence (for Bologna, Lucca, Siena, Volterra, San Gimi)
Manarola (Genoa, Lucca)
Venice (Verona, Ravenna)
Como
Dolomites
If you want to stick to the original plan, I'd say 4 nights in Milan and 4 nights in Bologna are too much. To see their sites, you really only need a full day in each. Milan is ... just not my thing. Bologna, by contrast, is architecturally very striking. It's also a young city, energetic, and the food is delicious. It's my favorite city in Italy. But you would have a couple days there where you've already seen everything and you might feel the time is redundant.
Florence (for Bologna, Lucca, Siena, Volterra, San Gimi)
Manarola (Genoa, Lucca)
Venice (Verona, Ravenna)
Como
Dolomites
If you want to stick to the original plan, I'd say 4 nights in Milan and 4 nights in Bologna are too much. To see their sites, you really only need a full day in each. Milan is ... just not my thing. Bologna, by contrast, is architecturally very striking. It's also a young city, energetic, and the food is delicious. It's my favorite city in Italy. But you would have a couple days there where you've already seen everything and you might feel the time is redundant.
May 16th, 2024, 06:17 AM
#35
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 4,498
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Karen, count me in as someone for whom was not that taken with Lucca though to be fair we were only there for a few hours stopping on our way from Levanto in the Cinque Terre region to San Quirico in the Val d'Orcia where we stayed for a week several years ago. The Val d'Orcia region to me is the most beautiful area of Tuscany with Pienza and Montepulciano being a couple of our favourite towns. We visited La Foce which I found very moving having read Iris Origo's diary 'War in Val d'Orcia' which I highly recommend.
Maybe later I will post my updated itinerary.
Thanks for the tip about War In Val d'Orcia. Will put it on my reading list!
May 16th, 2024, 06:24 AM
#36
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 4,498
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
One way to escape the crowds in the Cinque Terre is to stay at Hotel Porto Roca up on a bluff overlooking the sea just above Monterosso. We loved it there! Great dining too.
We enjoyed staying inside the walls at Lucca for four nights. We did not go outside the walls during our stay,such a magical place.
We enjoyed staying inside the walls at Lucca for four nights. We did not go outside the walls during our stay,such a magical place.
May 16th, 2024, 07:54 AM
#37
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 594
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Karen, I think we like to travel like you do.
When we were planning our Ireland trip, so much advice was to stay I one place and do day trips. When mapping that out, it included too much backtracking and time in the car. We enjoyed moving on and making progress. We also love, early mornings and evenings in locations without the crowds. We like to get an early start and hit a popular site first thing, get in a few more spots on our list, have a leisurely lunch, and go back to the room, especially if we are tired, or if it is hot or rainy. Later, we putter around the town again, have a nearby dinner and can walk home. I can't imagine many recent day visitors to CT have enjoyed it, we loved our mornings and evenings in Manorola.
If you are on day trips, you are far from your room and feel more obligated to stay and push on, especially if you have invested 2:30 hours in roundtrip driving. We don't pack that much so packing up isn't an issue, and we make sure our luggage is concealed at our stops.
I think Lucca is a great choice for you, especially with your daughter''s recommendation, but I think also staying in Siena is a lot more compatible with visiting the Val d'Orcia, which is gorgeous!
When we were planning our Ireland trip, so much advice was to stay I one place and do day trips. When mapping that out, it included too much backtracking and time in the car. We enjoyed moving on and making progress. We also love, early mornings and evenings in locations without the crowds. We like to get an early start and hit a popular site first thing, get in a few more spots on our list, have a leisurely lunch, and go back to the room, especially if we are tired, or if it is hot or rainy. Later, we putter around the town again, have a nearby dinner and can walk home. I can't imagine many recent day visitors to CT have enjoyed it, we loved our mornings and evenings in Manorola.
If you are on day trips, you are far from your room and feel more obligated to stay and push on, especially if you have invested 2:30 hours in roundtrip driving. We don't pack that much so packing up isn't an issue, and we make sure our luggage is concealed at our stops.
I think Lucca is a great choice for you, especially with your daughter''s recommendation, but I think also staying in Siena is a lot more compatible with visiting the Val d'Orcia, which is gorgeous!
May 16th, 2024, 01:53 PM
#38
Karen,
A. few thoughts….
I agree with a visit to Portovenere. We also have enjoyed staying in Santa Margherita Ligure.
Also, if you stay overnight at MXP, I recommend staying at Villa Malpensa which has an excellent dining room. Your last dinner in Italy would be excellent if you stay there, no airport food!
We really did enjoy our four nights in Lucca. Staying inside the walls made it special. However we didn’t care for the area outside the Lucca walls, some industrial towns.
We adore Siena and the Chianti villages and have stayed in that area four or five times.
We really like Milan! Great restaurants.It is more modern because it was bombed in WWII.
Your trip sounds wonderful, Karen.
A. few thoughts….
I agree with a visit to Portovenere. We also have enjoyed staying in Santa Margherita Ligure.
Also, if you stay overnight at MXP, I recommend staying at Villa Malpensa which has an excellent dining room. Your last dinner in Italy would be excellent if you stay there, no airport food!
We really did enjoy our four nights in Lucca. Staying inside the walls made it special. However we didn’t care for the area outside the Lucca walls, some industrial towns.
We adore Siena and the Chianti villages and have stayed in that area four or five times.
We really like Milan! Great restaurants.It is more modern because it was bombed in WWII.
Your trip sounds wonderful, Karen.
May 17th, 2024, 09:44 AM
#40
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 2,169
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I too would drop night in Milan and add to Venice, recommend staying in Dorsoduro there, not near train station or Rialto, but below. We've been three times to the Hotel Alboretti near the Peggy G museum and Academia Bridge; at other end of GC is the Giudecca Canal w lovely walk along the Zattere for water taxis and restaurants not jammed. We avoid San Marco Square, having seen it on our first trip. If you want to celebrate in style, ferry over Giudecca Canal and walk down to Harry's Bar w beautiful views of GC. Pricey, but an eyeful, with complimentary boat shuttle back to San Marco.
Siena is a highlight of Tuscany in our minds, we skipped Pisa to visit Lucca which was much quieter but an "everyone's neighborhood" which we enjoyed.
Lovely hotel right on Lake Como at reasonable price is Hotel du Lac. Walk onto boats nearby, get room facing lake, and enjoy great bar downstairs too. Took boat and bus over to Lugano, but too much a city -- left quickly to enjoy more at Bellagio.
Siena is a highlight of Tuscany in our minds, we skipped Pisa to visit Lucca which was much quieter but an "everyone's neighborhood" which we enjoyed.
Lovely hotel right on Lake Como at reasonable price is Hotel du Lac. Walk onto boats nearby, get room facing lake, and enjoy great bar downstairs too. Took boat and bus over to Lugano, but too much a city -- left quickly to enjoy more at Bellagio.
