helen63

Just started planning our September trip to Switzerland, and I need Fodorties help. As always! First, I thought Switzerland would be easy. But the more I read about it, the more I get overwhelmed with the number of places I would like to see. I drafted a preliminary plan, but I am waiting for your suggestions and recommendations. We will have two weeks. We will fly to Zurich at the end of, and August, and fly back home from Milan. This is our first time in Switzerland. We have been to Italy before. This time, I really wanted to add Cinque Terre to our trip, but it seems like no time for that (too much to see in Switzerland!)
Anyway, here is the plan (first draft).

Day 1 - Arrive to Zurich, drive to Schaffhausen
Day 2 - Stein am Rhein, water falls
Day 3 - drive to Appenzell overnight
Day 4 - Drive to Luzern overnight
Day 5 - Luzern
Day 6 - drive to Lauterbrunnen - overnight
Day 7 – Day 9 - in Lauterbrunnen - visit Murren, Wegen, Jungfrau, hike…
Day 10 - drive to Bern overnight
Day 11 - Side trips from Bern - Thun and Gruyères
Day 12 – to Lugano or Bellinzona
Day 13 - Around Lugano, Gangria, Morcote.
Day 14 - Como area - Bellagio
Day 15 – to Milan
14. Fly Home

How does this look? Should I add or skip anything? Too rushed?

Is there anything I can skip, so I can incorporate Cinque Terre?

Any suggesting on renting a car versus train travel? Any suggestions or comments are very welcome!!!!

swandav2000

Hi helen63,

As a newcomer to Switzerland, you may not be aware of just how wonderful trains are there. Yes, they are convenient and efficent and easy, but they are also FUN, getting you into the local population and freeing you from worries, cares, and piddling fees. Particularly for your first 13 days, a car would even be a nuisance -- in cities and in the Jungfrau area (where the places you'll want to go likely don't even allow cars).

There is a train station in the basement of the Zürich airport. You just pile all your luggage on a luggage cart and wheel it all the way (using escalators or elevators) down to the station tracks. There are some grocery shops and cafes on the level between the terminal and the tracks, so you should make sure to grab some fresh food for a picnic on the train to celebrate your arrival in Europe!

About your itinerary -- it looks to me like too many one-night overnights. Remember that you'll lose about half a day every time you move bases, what with packing up and checking out, then checking in and unpacking. It can be quicker to just make a day-trip, particularly if your two destinations are two hours apart or less.

So, for days 1-3, I hope you are staying in one spot and seeing each area by day-trip. Is that what you're doing?

For day 10-11, there's no need to move your base to Bern; I would instead see it as a day-trip. Both Thun and Bern are close enough to Lauterbrunnen to do as day-trips. I don't think you can fit in Gruyeres on this trip; it deserves more time than just half a day. Make sure you take a ferry trip on a lake, either Lake Thun or Lake Brienz. Thun is interesting because of its castle, but I've heard that Brienz is prettier.

You can take a look at the train schedules at the Swiss rail site,

www.rail.ch

Have fun!

s

charlotte4600

My (admittedly cynical) advice: skip Switzerland - go straight to Cinque Terre!

Really, Zurich is a place for business & the only enjoyable things I found were by accident: great art museum - Kunsthous Zurich, Fraumunster church with Marc Chagall stained glass windows, Lindt & Sprungli chocolate cafe.

Outside its city limits: Luzern: Sammlung Rosengart (brilliant small art collection).In Kriens, outside Lucerne: a cogwheel train on Mt Pilatus, a good watch. Okay that's 3 days tops & that's all there is! They roll up the sidewalks at 9pm & those Swiss bankers have to get to bed! Get up Sunday morning & you'll think there's been a nuclear disaster & you're the only survivor (I'm not kidding)!

kleeblatt

Charlotte4600: The poster's not staying in Zürich.

I'm afraid your knowledge about Switzerland is rather limited to two cities, art galleries and one mountain trip.

Have you ever been to any of the places the poster has listed besides Lucerne and Zürich?

traveller1959

Hallo Helen,

here some thoughts about your itenerary:

If you want to skip something, I would recommend the Rhinefalls. It is really not spectacular and if you have ever been to Niagara Falls, you will be deeply disappointed.

Secondly, Zürich is not as bad as Charlotte paints it. In fact, Zürich has on of the most beautiful medieval old towns in Europe and the location is very picturesque, with the lake and the river Limmat flowing right through old town. Zürich has a great restaurant scene and a vibrant nightlife. And besides the Kunsthaus, you will find several more excellent museums in town. I am saying this because it might be good idea to spend your first night in Zürich when you will have arrived jet-lagged.

Highlights of your trip to Switzerland will be Luzern and the Berner Oberland. Bern is also a beautiful city which is worth a day. I always recommend to spend two or three days at one place in order to enjoy it thoroughly. If you follow this philosophy, you might skip Appenzell, Thun and Gruyeres.

As Swandav has said, distances are short in Switzerland, so you may indeed skip some overnight stays and do daytrips instead. Make yourself familiar with the Swiss rail system, and you will see how quickly you go from one place to the next.

Regarding Cinque Terre: For Europeans, it is mainly a destination for hikers. The five villages used to have their charm because they had been so secluded for centuries. But mass tourism has reached Cinque Terre and I doubt if it's really worth the detour.

helen63

Thank you very much for all your answers so far!
On the Day1 – Day 3 – I was thinking of going to Schaffhausen directly from Zurich airport (seems like it is on the way), and stay there for a couple of nights. After that to drive Appenzell for one night (or a day trip to Appenzell). I thought Schaffhausen would be a nice place to take it easy on the arrival day, and then see Stein am Rhein on the next day. The main reason of going there is to see Stein am Rhein, not the falls. The town seems beautiful on pictures I saw.
Is there better to do a day trip to Stein am Rhein from Zurich? Is this a recommended way of seeing this town?
What about Appenzell? Skip Appenzell? Do a day trip from somewhere?
I must see Gruyères … I fell in love with it looking at pictures… Is there way to rearrange my plan to this better?
I hear what you say about train travel vs car travel. However, it is so hard to give up a car! We love driving cars in Europe, stopping in little towns, etc… Is this that different in Switzerland?
Thank you so much again for all your help!

kleeblatt

For your kind of trip, I wouldn't give up the car either. It sounds like you want to be a bit flexible and do spontaneous things. For that, a car is ideal. Parking in Lucerne isn't cheap but you might want to consider staying in Weggis than Lucerne.

I'd stick to driving a car if I were you. It's easier with your itinerary.

charlotte4600

I bought a very expensive train pass that was supposed to be valid for any train & for local public transit in any town for the period of time I was in Switzerland. It wasn't. I ended up paying a fine for being on the 'wrong' train & many extra fares because the 'locals' didn't know what I had. Suffice to say it would have been cheaper to rent a car.

The 'vibrant nightlife' of Zurich? Ypu can't get a meal or glass of wine after 10 pm. The medieval town is a couple of streets.

For the Cinque Terre, most people do not hike the 5 towns at all (I did), but it's beautiful! Stay in Lerici & take the boat to Manarosse al Mare & go swimming at the little beach. Or just walk up the path with a picnic lunch & look over the amazing view. You can get on & off the boat at every little village & have amazing delicious meals in Lerici (think birthplace of pesto) as late as you wish.

kleeblatt

"The 'vibrant nightlife' of Zurich? Ypu can't get a meal or glass of wine after 10 pm. The medieval town is a couple of streets."

Charlotte: I wish you'd stop posting about Zürich as if you know it. I admit it's hard to get a meal after 10 pm (it's not something most people want anyway) but you definitely can get a glass of wine until closing hours.

tipsygus

Charlotte4600 I'm sorry I think you must have been sold the wrong pass. I have been going to Switzerland for many years and never have I been charged for being on the wrong train nor have the locals been unaware of the pass I have had. Zurich nightlife I won't comment on because I don't stay in the city, and I agree the Swiss do like an early bedtime, but most restaurants serve meals until 9pm. Zurich medieval area is more than just a couple of streets. It does as I say whenever I post depend on what you go to Switzerland for. My idea of a Swiss holiday is a good day out with something of interest to me as an objective, eg a day in Stein am Rhein or at the Rhine Falls, or a morning on a lake steamer, and a good walk, Mannlichen to Kleine Scheidegg as an example, then a good meal in the evening at a small locally used restaurant. Certainly I would want to eat before 9pm most nights. You I presume are looking for something other this. I would always suggest that any first time visitor to Switzerland looks at the My Switzerland web site www.myswitzerland.ch/en and looks to see what brochures are freely available.

Heberling

Hi Helen -
My husband was really leary about buying a pass and foregoing a rental car when we made our first trip to Switzerland. But the experience was so wonderful, we are going back for 15 days in May with Swiss Pass in hand!

The freedom the pass gives you adds significantly to the enjoyment of your vacation. You will love being able to pick out your destination for the day, hop a train, enjoy the scenery (without fear of getting lost!)and arrive exactly on time. Connections are super-easy, too, because the system has been fine-tuned to have the most logical connecting trains very near each other. And of course, they are always on time. We never had a problem using the pass in the two weeks we were there and found that it was good on not only trains, but boats and the scenic postal buses, too. I promise it will enrich you experience immensely.

Regarding Gruyere, we stayed for three days in Montreux and did our own "Cheese and Chocolate Train" trip. (Not the pre-packaged tour) It is easy to visit both Gruyere and Broc in one day. The chocolate factory in Broc is a short walk from the train station and has a nice tour with all the gourmet chocolate you would like to sample. Gruyere is beautiful with a wonderful cheese tour and good restaurants. It is a day you will always remember!

swandav2000

Hi again,

Here's my little essay on car vs. train:

Trains are FUN
First, travellers get to actually mix and mingle with the local folks -- the fashionistas returning from a buying trip, the matrons back from some chores in the city, the grannies back from seeing their grandkids, and the gaggles of schoolkids on an outing. So, if your train ride is an hour or so, you get to spend a good bit of time people-watching and seeing some locals in their daily lives. I sometimes think of the other travellers who are moving through the countryside, cut off and isolated within their hermetic cars, and I feel sorry for them.

More fun -- everyone can stretch out, everyone can get involved in the conversation, and everyone can partake of a picnic of fresh groceries as you enjoy the scenery swishing by.

And still more fun -- if you're in a quiet mood, some or everyone can just sit and disappear into a novel and an iPod.

Second, trains are convenient. I've heard over and over that my fellow Amrericans (and I guess lots of other folks too) like the "freedom" to stop where they want. Well, of course you have that too with the trains. They stop pretty much everywhere. I have, in the past, hopped off a train to explore a town or village, and then hopped onto the next train. Sometimes you may have to wait a full 30 or 40 minutes, but then that's just enough time to have an ice cream cone, a cup of coffee, or a conversation with a local also waiting for a train.

What is harder to do on a train is to visit (or, as I say, "collect") four or five or twelve destinations in a single afternoon -- but that's not my style of travel anyway.

And, third, of course trains are more green. The next time you see that dirty lid of fog hanging over a town, you'll be happy you didn't contribute to it.

I've taken about 16 trips to Switzerland since 1995. I drove on two of them but learned my lesson. It was a mistake both times!

s

Masterphil

Helen...I have both driven and trained throughout Switerland. The train system is wonderful, but I would drive again in a heartbeat! Being able to stop for the thousands of photo ops in Switzerland is reason enough to drive.

As far as your itinerary...The Bernese Oberland is one of my top contenders for "if I were on my death bed and had to pick one place to travel to" list. I wouldn't hesitate to put it at Number 1 on my list.

We stayed in Grindelwald at Hotel Belvedere. (able to drive and park there and access to all the towns you mention via, gondolas, cable cars, cog-wheeled trains). The Hotel Belvedere is superb and their restaurant is incredible. We were there about 4 years ago, and the owner still sends us an email every once in awhile! A truly wonderful experience.

The other highlight, as someone mentioned, is Luzern. The first time I went to Luzern, was magical. The second time it was overrun with bus loads of tourists, as well as a New Orleans Jazz festival?! (not exactly what I was looking for in Switzerland). Lake cruise to Mt. Pilatius was great.

Gruyeres was a cute town. Rampart restaurant had to die for fondue and nice views! (Try some swiss white wine!)

We even to a side trip to Gstaad. The drive in and out of town was lovely.

Bern was just OK for me. Larger city, large main street shopping area.

Loved Lugano. Cute little town with an Italian flare and it's just a half hour drive to Como.

If I had to do it all over again, I would spend more time in the Bernese Oberland.

Gook Luck and Enjoy!

helen63

Thank you so much again for all your wonderful input! I am enjoying just reading your responses.
It seems like I can not go wrong either way - driving or taking trains. I need to think about.

I would like to somewhat finalize my route, then I can decide on the transportation.

Following on the suggestions to reduce the number of hotels changes, here are a few more questions:
1. If I stay in Lauterbrunnen without moving to Bern.
Is a day trip to Gruyères doable from there? I do not want not skip Gruyères.
2. Looks like I need to skip Appenzell, because it is a little out of the way for this trip. Where should I add another day, instead of Appenzell?
3. Is Stein am Rhein still worth a visit?

4. I can not decide if should stay around Lugano area (visiting Guarda, Morcote, etc) or go directly to lake Como, and then to Cinque Terre. If I skip Lugano area, then I will have time for Cinque Terre.

What do you think?

Masterphil

Helen..I don't think there is any reason to stay in Lugano. As mentioned, it is an easy 1/2 drive from Como. I might stop there, have some lunch, walk along the lake, visit some shops and then continue on to Lake Como and stay there.

Based on Google maps, Gruyeres is a 1 hr and 10 min ride from Lauterbrunnen. You can even take the long way back through Gstaad to Lauterbrunnen. Round trip is 3 hrs and 15 mins of driving through beauty.

Palenque

And Como, in Italy, is about twice as cheap across the board IME than Lugano, in Switzerland.

helen63

Thank you! I will probably follow your advice and stay in Varenna.

Palenque

I'd take Lake Como over Lugano and Lake Lugano any day - lots to see and do around the lake - look at boat passes if taking more than one boat trip.

helen63

Palenque, thank you!

It looks like we will be coming from Luzern to Varenna (still not sure train or driving). I thought that one advantage of driving would be that we can stop at some pretty villages on the way - like Bellizona or Gangria or Morcote. Is it a good idea?