LASoloGirl

Please forgive this long post. I am going to school as a career change. Taking a trip that I never had to take while I was working. I have not been to Europe since I was in high school. Needless to say I am overwhelmed trying to plan this. I wanted to join a tour because it was easier, but they all include Paris and London (where I'd like more freedom because I'll be visiting friends) and usually have single person supplements.

Below is my itinerary:

1. Any thoughts on revising the allotment of days would be appreciated.

I know it's really tight, but I feel like I don't know when I'll be back in light of my track record. My itinerary is totally flexible and at times random. E.g., I added Nice and Bordeaux because I wanted to see other parts of France, but if you think it would be easier to add in Normandy (which I am actually really exicted to do if I could figure out how since I saw "Band of Brothers"), that would work too.

2. Most importantly could you let me know your thoughts/suggestions on recommended modes of transportation between cities.

I started trying to figure it out but have lost my mind in the process. I am trying to balance the cost versus time of the different modes. For example, I don't mind taking a long bus/train to save money on hotel and airfare if it's overnight when I'd be sleeping anyway. If there is a good leg to rent a car that would be great too. I am not sure how the Eurailpass works and whether it would be appropriate in my case. Any and all help is appreciated. Thank you so much in advance!!!!!


Day 1: Arrive in London (GTW); fly to Amsterdam from Gatwick
Day 2: Amsterdam
Day 3: Amsterdam to Berlin via overnight bus
Day 4: Berlin
Day 5: Berlin
Day 6: Berlin to Vienna via overnight bus or plane (the train is really expensive)
Day 7: Vienna
Day 8: Vienna to Venice via train
Day 9: Venice
Day 10: Venice
Day 11: Venice to Rome via train
Day 12: Rome
Day 13: Rome
Day 14: Rome
Day 15: Rome - Florence via train
Day 16: Florence
Day 17: Florence
Day 18: Florence - Nice
Day 19: Nice
Day 20: Nice - Barcelona
Day 21: Barcelona
Day 22: Barcelona
Day 23: Barcelona - Madrid
Day 24: Madrid
Day 25: Madrid- Bilbao
Day 26: Bilbao
Day 27: Bilbao - Bordeaux
Day 28: Bordeaux- Paris
Day 29-32 - Paris
Day 33: Paris - London
Day Day 34-36: London
Day 37: London - JFK

Thank you for your help!!!!!

bobthenavigator

I have some tenets that work for me:

1. Average a minimum of 3 nites per destination
2. Make the next destination a max of 4 hours travel time
3. Spend half of your time in rural areas or towns of less than 50,000

I look at your itinerary and see too many big cites.
Where is Tuscany, the lakes, Salzburg, Bavaria etc?

suze

I don't mind an itinerary of cities only, especially traveling solo female and wanting to use public transportation it is easier than the countryside. I would not rent a car. For me personally seeing 12 places with all the travel in between in a month is way too many stops. You lose time checking in and out of hotels, traveling to and from train station, on the journeys (train or plane), etc. You need to realize that all that moving about takes away from actual sight-seeing time in each city.

You mention sleeping on trains. Have you tried it before? It sounds OK in theory but at least for me, I really don't get a good night's sleep so keep the overnight trips to a minimum (like no more than once a week).

I've been solo in Amsterdam and Venice, both were great easy cities to see on your own.

I don't think you need a tour, but I do think you need about 4 less cities on your itinerary (and that's still a good fast pace).

LASoloGirl

Thank you so much for your replies. I think I am hitting the big cities because I am doing an overview, but I will definitely work on cutting cities out. Suze, I have not slept overnight and will definitely pare those down too. I really appreciate your help.

Vttraveler

I don't have much trouble sleeping on sleepers on overnight trains but overnight buses are really hard and I would not try those trips.
Instead of the fairly rushed time in Spain I would spend more time in Provence and/or Burgundy on the way to Paris

Apres_Londee

Hi LASoloGirl,

Five weeks in Europe will be wonderful! I agree with suze. I like big cities too, and would recommend cutting some places out to slow your itinerary down. I would probably want to spend at least 5 days in a major city.

I also agree on maybe skipping the overnight buses and trains. One thing to remember is sometimes bus and train stations and the immediate areas around them aren't the nicest places very late at night or early in the morning.

So I would definitely cut out some places so you are spending less time travelling (less travelling saves money too), and look into flights between places that are far apart. As for train passes, the general consensus seems to be that point to point tickets are less expensive than a Eurail pass.

thursdaysd

I don't have a problem with overnight trains, provided you have a couchette, but I really can't imagine opting for an overnight bus! I'd look into budget airlines (try whichbudget.com) instead, although I prefer trains.

LSky

What are your main interests? Do you just want to see the sights or would you like to see some interesting little towns? Castles? Art? Modern Architecture? Shopping?

Are you going at a busy time of year, when you’ll have to have reservations? Or will you choose a shoulder season or off season when you are free to make your own schedule?

LASoloGirl

Thank you all for your replies and being so nice (I've read other responses and some people can be a bit gruff). I've cut down the cities. I'm still only staying a couple days in Amsterdam. I really just want to check it out because everyone talks about it. I am spending 4-5 days in Venice, Rome, Florence, Berlin, London and Paris. I am still working out the Spanish versus Burgundy part of the trip. I am foregoing the bus/train because I've narrowed down the cities and taking planes between countries and trains within countries. All your comments were really helpful in that I had to focus on what was practial versus a wish list.

My interests are all over the place. So I'm coming to terms with the fact that even if I don't get here again for awhile there is no way that I'm going to see everything.

This is the greatest forum. Thank you all soooo much.

Aleta

It would seem to me that going to Bilbao from Barcelona would be simpler than going to Madrid, then Bilbao.
I too would say don't move around so much, but you have planned to visit wonderful places.
When checking out transportation, look at flights because they can be surprisingly inexpensive. But look at booking round trips (throw out the uneeded half) because round trips are so much less expensive than one ways.

flygirl

If you spend 4-5 nights per big city, you could choose to do one "day trip" per city. In many cases public transport would take you to something within an hour of the city (for instance, Provins from Paris, Versailles, Fontainebleau). Orvieto is an hour from Rome, etc.

yk

My favorite cities in europe are London, Berlin, and Vienna. Each of these cities deserve at least 4-5 days.

Once you are set on your final itinerary, your top priority is to book train tickets in advance <U>if you want to save money</u> and willing to forgo flexibility. For example, the Austrian rail website offers SparSchiene discount tickets and you can travel from Vienna to Venice for just 29 euros (seat) or 49 euros (overnight couchette).

There are also discounts via the Spain railway website www.renfe.es. If you buy tickets in advance, you may qualify for the WEB fare which is 60% off the regular price. And for Eurostar between Paris and London, the sooner you book, the cheaper are the fares.

Obviously, the downside of booking these in advance is that most of the discount tickets are non-changable and non-refundable, and valid only for that particular train you booked on. Therefore, if you want flexibility, be ready to pay $$$ for tickets or for a flexi-Railpass.

One last point: In the past, I had the same mentality thinking that it may be years (or even decades) before I will be able to go back to Europe. Well, guess what, I'm in my mid-30s and in the last 6 years I have taken 18 trips to Europe. Most of these trips were for 1 week or less; but you'd be surprised that it's really not that difficult to fly to Europe for 7 days during one of your vacation week (esp if you live on the East Coast, have no children, and you're going back to school). If you are willing to travel off-season, plane tickets and hotels are much cheaper. So, the bottom-line is, you don't have to cram everything into one huge trip... chances are, if you are determined to go to Europe, you can make it happen as often as you would like.

suze

Sounds like things are coming together. I think overnight trains are fun but for me only if I can afford a private cabin. I did that between Vevey (Switzerland) and Venice twice and it was very fun. But I wouldn't want to be doing it more than a couple times during a one month trip.

If you're going to Amsterdam only because "everyone talks about it" I would consider skipping it. I know everyone's different but I could certainly spend a week in Paris or Venice and hardly have scratched the surface. I encourage you to focus on quality of experience, more than just trying to check things off your list (been there done that).
all the best, Suze

Timlin

I so agree with the thought that you can go for a week to Europe here and there. It saves you the cost of hotel/food and that savings will pay for your next flights over. To spend a week in one city and then fly home is perfection. You really get into the feel of a city that way and you come home feeling relaxed and content.

Doing a full long holiday like you have planned (although much improved with the longer stays in each city) often leaves you feeling dizzy with trying to remember everything. You go home exhausted rather then uplifted and enthusiastic.

I do like the way you've accepted suggestions and made adjustments. You'll be glad you did.....sleeping on a bus is something you would only want to do once in a lifetime.....it takes the rest of your holiday to rebalance you end up so tired. I did that once........you couldn't pay me to do it again!

I hope it all goes perfectly for you. You deserve a magical holiday.

LASoloGirl

I am so glad I found this forum. Thank you all for your help. I have whittled down the trip to Paris and London for five days. Italy for 10 days, cities to be decided since I will get a railpass for Italy. Barcelona and Berlin for 4-5 days each. I think I have come to terms with the idea that I won't see it "all" on this trip and am crossing my fingers that time and funds will permit more trips in the future (scary to make money and then face the prospect of being a student again!!)

One last question: The tix for JFK-LON are about $450 inclusive I plan to depart mid-may and return mid June. I am actually in L.A., but I am going to visit friends in NY on the way out and on the way back. Because I don't usually research JFK tickets, is $450 a good price that I should buy it notwithstanding the talk of future price drops. Don't worry, I won't blame anyone if they fall, I just wanted to get a sense if this is a good price.

Thanks again!

yk

$450 is a good price for JFK-London roundtrip for June, if that includes all taxes.

A better idea, though, is to investigate in an open-jaw (aka multi-city ticket) so that you can fly into London but fly out of a different city (either Italy, or Berlin, or Barcelona, depending on your itinerary). Most of the time, the price is the same, or slightly more; but you save time and money WITHOUT having to backtrack to London!

I can tell you that I have been doing this (open-jaw) for years and I'm surprised so many people don't know about this option.

LASoloGirl

Thanks, YK. I will definitely look into the open-jaw ticket but will grab the JFK-LON flight if I don't find something better.

yk

BTW, even if the ticket is $100 more (if departing from a different city), I still think it's worth the extra money than to head back to London. Here are things you need to consider:
1) cost of transport from your last city to London
2) higher cost of hotel in London on your last night compared to most other european cities
3) precious time wasted on traveling to London
4) Cost of getting from to/from london hotel and London airport on your last day

Sassafrass

You may find point to point tickets are cheaper for Italy than a rail pass. Distances are short between say, Rome & Florence, so quite inexpensive. I'm glad you have narrowed down the number of stops. Just because you are staying in one place doesn't mean you will see less. You will actually see more because you have more time for day trips (wonderful places often just a few minutes outside of major cities) and more time spent sight-seeing, rather than traveling. You will save money too.