Dogeared

Heimdall, why do you say, "What they show as souvlaki is actually gyros"?

You can't see the meat in the photo to tell if it is pita gyros or pita souvlaki. The description under the photo is referring to pita souvlaki specifically, not gyros.

Gyros (pronounced gee ross, not jy ro o jy ross) simply means 'turned' and refers to the meat being turned on a vertical spit.
Pita simply refers to the bread and souvlaki is grilled meat on a stick. Take them off the stick and put them in pita bread and you have a pita souvlaki. Quite different from a pita gyros.

Here is pita gyros:
http://www.explorecrete.com/cuisine/gyros.html

This is souvlaki:
http://www.seriouseats.com/recipes/a...auto-38388.jpg

Hold the stick of souvlaki in the pita bread and pull the stick out; add some tzatziki, onions, tomato slices and you have a pita souvlaki. Not to be confused with a pita gyros.

When living in Greece I used to hear people mis-pronounce gyros all the time. But even worse were the Brits who were used to 'Doner kebabs'. That is in fact the Turkish name for the same thing as a Greek Pita Gyros but in the UK and some other places, instead of building up fresh lamb in layers on the spit, a man made meat product is taken out of a box and put on the spit.

You can see in the first photo on the following link how it is a man-made one piece product.
https://www.desiblitz.com/content/do...really-in-them

Now you have to realize that the man-made product is used day after day until it is gone. This is obviously not a very healthy idea. Not to mention the questionable ingredients in them. The Greek gyros (and Turkish Donner) on the other hand are either finished by the end of the day on which they were cooked or the remains are thrown out and the spit is loaded with fresh lamb again the next day. It's obvious which is better both in terms of quality and health concerns.

I once had a Brit ask me where he could find a 'real doner kebab' and made it clear what he thought that was, what he got back home in the UK. How ironic that he didn't even know he was asking me where he could get a 'fake' man-made product when he was being offered the real thing in every little gyros place on the island.

The names may differ, they may even vary the name to suit the tourist. Nowadays you can find all kinds of different meat being used as well.
http://www.explorecrete.com/cuisine/gyros.html

But for me, it is pork done on a spit or lamb grilled on a skewer or it isn't worth eating. LOL

clausar

Real horiatiko psomi is a rarity in Greece of 2017.... ( like the one on Dogeared's pic.. and i still have to find a restaurant offering the real traditional one.....

There is also no bakery making it, in the old traditional way...... which is a pity,as it is very very tasty, and can last up to one week, without any preservatives.

Kja, it is quite difficult to find a good restaurant in a touristy area imo....
As Heimdal already mentioned, avoid restaurants with photos and menus in many languages.... Many restaurants in Chania the Plaka or Nafplio are real tourist traps.

Also i would not ask the reception for advice... as their recommendations are not always very innocent.

Greeks use to eat grilled meat well done...although this has changed in the last years
Greeks also use to eat their meals lukewarm, which is also much healthier. Tourists from Central and Northern Europe usually complain about it ( they eat their meals really hot), but the Greek cuisine is using primarily best quality olive oil which you can eat lukewarm...

There is a whole category of dishes that are cooked with olive oil , are vegetarian made with fresh Greek vegetables. You will find them in the menu as Ladera ( ladi = oil in Greek).

travelerjan

kja, in ordering a Greek meal, many of us feel you can't go wrong because it's all delicious, but the most common "first-timer" rule is to order too much at that first meal. As Heimdall says "As Dogeared wrote, mezedes (starters) are meant for more than one person, and can be a meal in themselves." In other words, there's no such thing as a "side saled". This is, I gather, because the Greek culture of sociability can't conceive of a person dining alone.

Solo travelers can often link up with other independent travelers right in a restaurant -- it's happened happily with me many a time -- but certainly there are evenings of dining alone. These days a few tavernas have picked up the US habit of boxing up the surplus for you as a take-home. But for other situations, my solution has become a ziploc baggie in the daybag. It started one fine evening in Serifos, I sat at a table on the beach waiting for my kleftiko. I fancied a little nibble beforehand, and saw "olives" listed at €2. Just right! thought I. The plate arrived ... with THIRTY-EIGHT olives. I consumed 8 or 10, thought hmmm, looked in my daybag, found a plastic Ziploc holding make-up. Dumped the lipsticks and took away 28 olives to adorn my noon picnics for days. Now I always pack a few in luggage.

HappyTrvlr

I will get back to you with names of specific restaurants. However, we ate grilled fish and Greek salads daily. Sometimes lamb, our favorite meat. And my favorite, grilled octopus. Dessert was usually complimentary, a piece of nut or honey cake. Never had a giro in Greece though I do like them. I have Greek friends who live there and travel around the country. They have given us recommendations for both of our trips, excellent! I can't wait to return to Greece.

kja

More great ideas – thanks so much, one and all!

@ travelerjan: Thanks for clarifying! I do like to learn as much as I can before traveling, and am grateful for the patient and generous assistance that you and so many of my fellow Fodorites are offering. Bringing some ziplock with me is a great idea – I love the idea of having some olives to savor at my leisure! I know what you mean about solo travel in gregarious cultures – while I am perfectly comfortable dining alone, I’ve been a bit of an object of curiousity in any number of countries where the idea of being alone is typically viewed as a pitiable condition. ;-)

@ crazyh: I haven’t had a decent gyro in years, and am looking forward to it – thanks for making sure I considered them. And a resounding YES to good, affordable house wines! I love the idea of asking to peek in the kitchen or serving area to select what interests me – as you say, not something I’d try at home. ;-)

@ Dogeared: Great tip to ask what staff would suggest for that particular day! And efcharisto! for telling me about Horiatiko Psomi – sounds, and looks, wonderful! (Love the picture. ) I enjoy rabbit, but have had inconsistent experiences with goat – once wonderful, once awful. I suspect I’ll give it a try if it’s the day’s recommended meal. And yes, mezedes can be challenging for solo diners – but I’ve managed with similar dishes in other countries and am sure I’ll find a way to muddle through in Greece, too! ;-) Great story about your British friend – and finally! – an explanation of why I’ve never tasted anything like the donner I had in Turkey or the gyros I used to get in Chicago. How I remember those spitted legs of lamb and their incredibly appetizing aromas!

@ Heimdall: Thanks so much for the heads-up about swordfish! And for the recommendations for mezedes – I love tzatziki and am looking forward to experimenting with Dolmades and zucchini balls, which I think are called kolokithokeftedes? And thanks for that web-page: I’m getting hungry!

@ clausar: Much as I hate your cautionary note about Horiatiko Psomi (sigh ), I’ll now know not to be (too) disappointed if I don’t find it. And thanks for explaining the temperature of cooked foods – I would not have been prepared for that, and would have been upset with the service! Your comment about advice from reception staff is also much appreciated – I’ve often found them a great source of local knowledge, but of course, that only works if they can be trusted to give unbiased recommendations.

kja

@ HappyTrvlr: I look forward to your recommendations!

Heimdall

Dogeared, once again you are being pedantic. The souvlaki I eat on the islands is chunks of meat grilled over charcoal on a skewer. It is served on a plate rather than in pita bread. Gyros in pita bread is typically a street food, not something you would order sitting down in a taverna.
http://www.mygreekdish.com/wp-conten...s-recipe-5.jpg
http://images.media-allrecipes.com/u...15/3719538.jpg

FuryFluffy

kja, you sure spend time for planning!
Once again, your Greek planning threads urge me to fly there, once again.

clausar

There seems to be confusion about souvlaki.

There is souvlaki, that you get in restaurants and is grilled pieces of meat in a metal stick.

Greeks though primarily call pita + meat, souvlaki ( a Greek will say let's eat souvlakia, meaning pita plus gyros or kalamaki)

There is pita gyros and pita kalamaki ( kalamaki is the wooden stick).

Souvlaki is indeed considered to be street food, you can also sit down and order it in most souvlaki shops ( Savvas and Thanassis in Monastiraki/Athens are typical examples)
It is also a favourite take away food, since we never make souvlaki at home.. but we get it delivered from one of the numerous souvlaki shops that are everywhere. In my neighbourhood in Pallini/Athens there are at least 15 souvlaki shops with delivery service

However there is no pita souvlaki... as souvlaki is the whole thing.. ( unless you are in Thessaloniki where they have a different definition of souvlaki and make often fun of the Athenians)

Heimdall

Clausar, thanks for the explanation! To add to the confusion over names, the Greek owner of the taverna on Antiparos where I usually eat calls his souvlaki kebabs, and who am I to try to correct him? The souvlaki he serves comes on a skewer with meat, onions, and sweet peppers, served on a plate with rice or fries—a good, inexpensive sit-down meal.

Just down the street on Antiparos is another popular place called 5F where the owner cooks his meat on a gyros spit. If you order at the window the meat will be put in pita bread along with tzatziki and salad vegetables. If you order at a table, the gyros meat will be put on a plate.

clausar

These are all called souvlaki... but the pita souvlaki is the most popular one.

In souvlaki shops you can either order a pita gyros or kalamaki.. or a portion of gyros, which is the gyros on a plate as you know it

Odin

Other enjoyable things in Greece are the cheeses, I like manouri, but there are many other. Greek yoghurt (sheep's yoghurt milk is especially good) which is unlike anything you can get outside of Greece and of course Greek honey or carob syrup. Wild asparagus and mushrooms might still be available in May (not sure as the picking season is now), wild bitter greens (horta) are available all through Greece and the islands.

No need to miss out on mezedes, ask for small portions, if that's not possible, no need to eat it all or don't order a main course. You often see Greek men dining alone with a whole table of food, enough to feed a family for a week. The concept of food waste is not the same as ours, lots of food is a sign of generosity and hospitality.

Some places make their own fantastic taramasalata that is not fluorescent pink (white taramas) and melitzanosalata (eggplant dip). Stuffed vine leaves (and stuffed zucchini flowers) can be wonderful too, if the restaurant make their own, it's important to ask. Fresh vines leaves are at their best in spring. They can be vegetarian (loosely described as veg because they might use meat stock) or with meat.

Sundried then grilled octopus can be served as part of a mezze or it could be cooked stifado style. Kolokithokeftedes are the zucchini balls, kolokithia means zucchini and keftedes refer to balls, of which there are other variations eg meat based ones. If you find a good bakery, you might get zucchini pies, similar to spinach pies (spanakopita).
.
If you like ice-cream, there are some traditional flavours you might like to seek ou, eg rosewater ice cream, pistachio and mastic (best mastic gum is from Chios) but alot of this has sadly gone the same way as yiayia's village baked bread.

Weadles

We really like ATTICUS GREEK HOUSE in Athens. It's in a residential area not far from The Acropolis. Very good food, reasonable prices, and gorgeous views of The Acropolis lit up at night. We go every time we're in Athens.

crazyh

If you are in Athens check out the Central Markets on Athinas St. where locals and tavernas go to shop for their daily food. You'll be amazed at the variety and excellent prices. The various olives is amazing and the cheese, especailly Feta will overwhelm you with choices.

There'll be other markets and/or farmers' markets on various islands or the mainland where you can buy fresh, local food for breakfast, lunch or picnics without breaking the bank.

Greece has some of the best food in the world and the prices are surprisingly low for what you are getting.

Just about everywhere I ate had good food, some better than others but all good.

As stated earlier, check out places where more locals are than tourists, avoid places that have colorful signs of food and menus strickly in English, look for menus in Greek and ask a waiter/taverna owner for help or the special of the day if you can read Greek.

Just about every taverna owner or waiter will be outside trying to lure you in saying they have the best food and prices. If you don't feel comfortable about being pressured either keep walking or say No Thank (óchi efcharistó)

Dogeared

Clausar, I can tell you where to get real horiatiko psomi.

http://www.tavernartemida.gr/en/tradition/

https://www.google.ca/webhp?sourceid...nthos+greece&*

When I first went to this taverna with rooms to rent up above and a swimming pool out front (since filled in) back around 93-94, the road to it out of the village was broken asphalt and dirt. They got few tourists venturing along that road as a result.

George and Maria had just opened a year or so before and were struggling to make it work. George built pretty much everything with his own hands and yes, Maria's mother made the bread once a week in the outdoor oven. The picture I linked before could be a picture of her (but it's not). I suppose she is gone now and no doubt it is Maria who know bakes the bread.

It's been some years since I was last there and it looks like from what I see online that things have gone well for them. I spent many a saturday afternoon there first having a dip in the pool, then lunch, then a siesta by the pool before getting on my Vespa and heading back to Rhodes Town.

For those who think a discussion of gyros vs. souvlaki is just being 'pedantic', try reading this discussion on the subject.
https://www.tripadvisor.ca/ShowTopic...ns_Attica.html

The name used differs everywhere but what is not in question is that gyros is done on the spit while souvlaki is grilled on a skewer. Whether you wrap either in pita bread and eat it with your hands or put it on a plate and eat it with a knife and fork, doesn't change the fact that gyros and souvlaki are two entirely different things. Kalamaki is just a synonym for souvlaki. It means 'little straws'.

"There is pita gyros and pita kalamaki ( kalamaki is the wooden stick)." That's one local description clausar but on Rhodes, you either order a pita gyros or a pita souvlaki. Kebab on the other hand is slightly different. A kebab (more of a Turkish name) usually has slices of peppers or onions between the pieces of meat on the skewer as Heimdall describes. A kebab also has larger pieces of meat generally than souvlaki/kalamaki. But all 3 are basically the same thing. Meat on a skewer grilled over charcoal or wood.

Whatever you choose to call it (or better, pay attention to what they are called locally), if you get them at the right place, they are delicious.

Now for fun, take a look at this photo of a French take on the sidewalk window Gyros Shop. http://www.aparisguide.com/restauran...rant-gyros.jpg

Only the French could upgrade gyros to a 'Maison de'. I wonder if they have a Michelin star?

Heimdall

Haha, Dogeared teaching a Greek about Greek food!

Nikolas?

Dogeared

Meant to add, regarding photos of food outside etc. While I do adhere to the advice to avoid tourist only restaurants where this is predominant, I cannot agree that it is a hard and fast rule.

For example the Artemida restaurant I linked above does have photos out front as well as a printed menu. I can see it in one of the photos on the link above. But that does not mean they aren't full on a Sunday for lunch, with local people.

Some items may have been added to a menu to appeal to tourists and those items may never be ordered by the locals but it is possible for a place to be catering to both.

They may even have a sign saying, 'Beans on Toast' or 'Full English Breakfast' which appeals to many Brit tourists but that doesn't mean they don't serve good Greek food to those who know to order it.

I don't think you can go by whether they have 'picture menus' or whether one is busier than another. The busy one may be full of tourists while the empty one serves far better food but does not cater to tourists with what the tourists find more familiar.

clausar

Dogeared
It seems that you know everything about Greece better, while i am only a Greek living in Greece........

crazyh

People . . . do we really want to argue about Greek Food? I grew up in a Greek-American household and ate Greek food on a regular basis, with Sunday being a special "Greek Day." I had all the traditional Greek Food that my grandparents cooked after they immigrated from Greece and my parent's also.

However, I really didn't experience all Greek Food until I started going to Greece many years ago. I was amazed at all the variety of food that I never experienced back in the US. All of it fresh, local and well prepared. Animal parts never ate, let alone mentioned in the US . . . the huge selection of cheeses, olives, herbs, spices, seafood and so much more once I started traveling to Greece.

Just about anywhere in Greece, whether the islands or the mainland will find food central to a particular area, similar but with a different twist depending on where you came from.

The last thing we want to do is argue about Greek Food . . . it's one of the best diets in the world and at prices so much lower than most any other European country, or in fact any where!

Let's enjoy the food and the Greek Culture . . . it's not worth arguing over semantics about Souvlaki, Gyro, and whatever else people here are crying about!

kja

Wow! So much great information – efcharisto!

@ clausar
& dogeared
& Heimdall: Thank you for this lesson -- I’ve learned that people are passionate about their Greek foods, and I choose to look at that as a good thing. ;-) Nuff said? (Parakalo?) And now, perhaps one of you can tell me how to say delicious, because I think I’ll want to use that word frequently!

@ FuryFluffy: I love planning my trips, and am so glad to benefit from so much advice from those who have been to Greece before me! BTW, I am still hoping to visit the outdoor cinema at Thision, thanks to your recommendation.

@ Odin: I’ve only had manouri in the US – loved it! I am definitely looking forward to tasting it while in Greece. I’ll hope for some wild asparagus and mushrooms, and if I see them, I’ll take advantage because it sounds like I’m unlikely to find them later in my trip. It sounds like I may be in Greece in time to catch at least a few fresh vine leaves, too – perfect! And oooh, it’s been a while since I had a good stuffed zucchini flower … and OMG, those varieties of icecream sound awesome! Once again, I’m getting hungry – and I just had a huge dinner. ;-)

@ Weadles: Is the Atticus Greek House also known as GH Attikos Restaurant? Several google searches are suggesting it is, and if so, that’ll be perfect, as I’m staying just minutes away!

@ crazyh: Athens’s Central Market is definitely on my itinerary, if not for shopping, then just for roaming and taking pictures and <s>drooling over</s> admring the gorgeous array of offerings. I love walking through a good market! And IME, no matter how aggressive a salesman, a pleasant “no, thank you” in the local language can go a long way. Thanks so much for sharing your insights!