Daniel Lee

OK people: <BR> <BR>Let's find out the REAL scoop on this pickpocket thing in Paris. <BR> <BR>What are the odds of getting pickpocketed in Paris? <BR> <BR>What are the "hotspots" for pickpocketers? <BR> <BR>Anybody here ever experienced this happen to themsleves? <BR> <BR>I am planning on wearing a money belt under my clothes. Have any of these hoodlums ever infiltrated that as well? <BR> <BR>Sincerely, <BR> <BR>Daniel Lee

pam

We were walking in the Tuileries garden and there didn't seem to be another person in sight. I had left my wallet outside my shirt on its cord. Suddenly the pros descended on us with their newspapers and cardboard. I had been forewarned but it was so sudden that I didn't grasp what was going on right away. My companion was yelling No, Go Away. I had foolishly been trying to read what was written on the cardboard being held in front of me. I finally woke up and slapped the cardboard down. They had unsnapped the wallet but didn't get anything. That was my only pickpocket experience in a whole college-summer of Europe. I had been very careful, but at that point we seemed to be so out-of-a-crowd that I had let my guard down. I will use the neck wallet again this summer but it will be under my clothes all the time. My godfather said his front trouser pocket was picked on the Paris Metro. (interesting experience I guess) It was crowded and he preferred losing the money clip to whatever he was holding.

Daniel Lee

Hey Pam, <BR> <BR>Yeah, I hear ya. My friend also got his front pocket raped by some pickpocketers on the Metro. They took out all the bills and all the CHANGE. He was amazed. <BR> <BR>Well, I'm not gonna worry about it. I'm gonna have my money belt, and if I catch some dude's hand in my pocket, I'll just break it off for him. <BR> <BR>Daniel

Bob Brown

This message is a request to Pam. <BR>Please give a few more technical details on the attempted heist you experienced. <BR>Was it daylight? <BR>Where did these people come from? <BR>Behind trees and bushes? <BR>Was the technique to hold the cardboard up to block your vision while someone took your money? <BR>I guess if they had wanted it bad enough they would have just hit you over the head and cut the cord. But is sounds perfectly scary. <BR> <BR>Question for the Paris veterans: <BR>don't the Paris police ever do anything?? They don't care, or what?? <BR>

Donna

The odds of getting pickpocketed in Paris are directly proportional to how easily accessible anything valuable to you is to them. I've heard and read all sorts of stories, but I've never heard of anyone having an under-the-clothing security pouch lifted (or the contents thereof). My recommendation is to carry your cash, credit cards, passport, etc. in your security pouch. Your camera is probably safe around your neck and in front of you. Otherwise, it's a good idea to carry it around in one of those plain brown bags with handles under your tour guides and maps (as opposed to a really nice camera bag with a big brand name on it). Take only what you need with you for the day. Many pickpockets hang out at Notre Dame (go figure), the large metro stations which connect to the suburbs (Chatelet/Les Halles, Montparnasse, Trocadero, etc.) and especially on the line that runs between Bastille and Charles de Gaulle. There are very practiced at their "art". On the trains (often a small group of adolescents), they hop on one stop and jump off at the next having done their business. They know precisely the distance between stops and when the train will suddenly slow down and you'll be completely distracted looking for something to grab onto. The best way to protect yourself is to have your route planned in advance - know where you will change lines and what direction you are going (the direction is always the last stop on the line), and the number of stops. It's best not to rely on the maps in the station or on the train, as you will be too distracted. Beware of anyone invading your "personal space". Look them up and down and squarely in the eye. Turning your gaze elsewhere and pretenting to ignore potential troublemakers is not a good idea. It's good advice to leave your wallet and anything else you normally carry around but don't need in Paris at home. A wallet is not safe anywhere on your person. You cannot fool the pickpockets. Your body language will give you away (think "protecting"). Every tour guide has a chapter on "safety". If you read the precautions and follow them, you'll probably never know they're around. The Paris police are more than happy to take a detailed report.

francesca

Just to put things into perspective...I have never had a problem in my 6 years here and don't know anyone else who has, tourist or no. Maybe this is a side to Paris that residents just do not see (although we spend lots of time in the sames parks, museums, metro stops as visitors...) You should be careful in the metro, especially the La Defense-Vincennes line. Pickpockets call this line "La Banque Suisse" (the Swiss bank) because it so lucrative.

francesca

Just to put things into perspective...I have never had a problem in my 6 years here and don't know anyone else who has, tourist or no. Maybe this is a side to Paris that residents just do not see (although we spend lots of time in the sames parks, museums, metro stops as visitors...) You should be careful in the metro, especially the La Defense-Vincennes line. Pickpockets call this line "La Banque Suisse" (the Swiss bank) because it so lucrative.

ilisa

Regarding the cardboard...They hold in front of you a piece of cardboard with writing on it. While you are trying to read it, they reach under and grab for your money, valuables, etc. Some girls tried this on us in Barcelona. As soon as they came close, I shoved the one with the cardboard out of my way. She walked over to my husband with it. He slapped it upwards so it hit her in the face. I don't like to get violent, but sometimes you just have to do it. I would think that your odds of getting pickpocketed are the same in any large city. Just use common sense.

elaine

<BR>I've decided to add my opinion. I have never been a victim of crime, either in the very large city I live in, nor while traveling. I don't use hidden wallets either at home or abroad. Some of my crime-free experience is luck, and I grant that up front. However, a good part is also common sense. <BR>No offense intended, but do you look like tourists? That's not a crime, I'm just asking. In my home city we get lots of tourists, and whether they are other Americans, Japanese, or Europeans, it is quite easy, usually, to spot the tourists. We tourists can't help it to some extent. We carry our guidebooks and our maps and our totebags (sometimes with travel logos on them) and our large cameras. Some make it more obvious by wearing sneakers and tee shirts with logos from home, etc into business and cultural areas and are even more obvious.When I travel I too have the inevitable totebag, albeit a discreet one. I don't wear sneakers and I try to blend in but I am sure I am recognizable as an American in Paris, and elsewhere. . <BR> <BR>I don't walk around feeling fearful and paranoid, but I am cautious. My totebag doesn't dangle from my arm, it is securely closed,and close to my body. I walk briskly and with a purpose. <BR>When I hear footsteps behind me, I turn around and look. When I see a group approaching me, I look up and pay attention. When I accumulate packages I stop at my hotel and drop them off so I am not overburdened and distracted. In train stations while I am searching for my train or walking the corridors I am aware that my bag is still closed and close to me. I would rather hold up a ticket line or a taxi for 6 extra seconds while I put my wallet away and close my bag, rather than walk away still fumbling with the wallet and the bag. <BR>I am truly sorry to hear of problems with crime in Paris, a city I love. Again, there are certainly areas to avoid as there are in any major city, particularly but not exclusively at night.The Tuileries is not a place I would have put in that category. However, I'm sure you can admit that a wallet dangling on a cord around your neck was, in hindsight, like waving a red flag at a bull. <BR>I hope you all have happier experiences in the future, but I hope the bad time doesn't turn you off Paris, or traveling. <BR>Good luck.

elaine

<BR>I've decided to add my opinion. I have never been a victim of crime, either in the very large city I live in, nor while traveling. I don't use hidden wallets either at home or abroad. Some of my crime-free experience is luck, and I grant that up front. However, a good part is also common sense. <BR>No offense intended, but do you look like tourists? That's not a crime, I'm just asking. In my home city we get lots of tourists, and whether they are other Americans, Japanese, or Europeans, it is quite easy, usually, to spot the tourists. We tourists can't help it to some extent. We carry our guidebooks and our maps and our totebags (sometimes with travel logos on them) and our large cameras. Some make it more obvious by wearing sneakers and tee shirts with logos from home, etc into business and cultural areas and are even more obvious.When I travel I too have the inevitable totebag, albeit a discreet one. I don't wear sneakers and I try to blend in but I am sure I am recognizable as an American in Paris, and elsewhere. . <BR> <BR>I don't walk around feeling fearful and paranoid, but I am cautious. My totebag doesn't dangle from my arm, it is securely closed,and close to my body. I walk briskly and with a purpose. <BR>When I hear footsteps behind me, I turn around and look. When I see a group approaching me, I look up and pay attention. When I accumulate packages I stop at my hotel and drop them off so I am not overburdened and distracted. In train stations while I am searching for my train or walking the corridors I am aware that my bag is still closed and close to me. I would rather hold up a ticket line or a taxi for 6 extra seconds while I put my wallet away and close my bag, rather than walk away still fumbling with the wallet and the bag. <BR>I am truly sorry to hear of problems with crime in Paris, a city I love. Again, there are certainly areas to avoid as there are in any major city, particularly but not exclusively at night.The Tuileries is not a place I would have put in that category. However, pam,I'm sure you can admit that a wallet dangling on a cord around your neck was, in hindsight, like waving a red flag at a bull. <BR>I hope you all have happier experiences in the future, but I hope the bad time doesn't turn you off Paris, or traveling. <BR>Good luck.

elaine

<BR>I've decided to add my opinion. I have never been a victim of crime, either in the very large city I live in, nor while traveling. I don't use hidden wallets either at home or abroad. Some of my crime-free experience is luck, and I grant that up front. However, a good part is also common sense. <BR>No offense intended, but do you look like tourists? That's not a crime, I'm just asking. In my home city we get lots of tourists, and whether they are other Americans, Japanese, or Europeans, it is quite easy, usually, to spot the tourists. We tourists can't help it to some extent. We carry our guidebooks and our maps and our totebags (sometimes with travel logos on them) and our large cameras. Some make it more obvious by wearing sneakers and tee shirts with logos from home, etc into business and cultural areas and are even more obvious.When I travel I too have the inevitable totebag, albeit a discreet one. I don't wear sneakers and I try to blend in but I am sure I am recognizable as an American in Paris, and elsewhere. . <BR> <BR>I don't walk around feeling fearful and paranoid, but I am cautious. My totebag doesn't dangle from my arm, it is securely closed,and close to my body. I walk briskly and with a purpose. <BR>When I hear footsteps behind me, I turn around and look. When I see a group approaching me, I look up and pay attention. When I accumulate packages I stop at my hotel and drop them off so I am not overburdened and distracted. In train stations while I am searching for my train or walking the corridors I am aware that my bag is still closed and close to me. I would rather hold up a ticket line or a taxi for 6 extra seconds while I put my wallet away and close my bag, rather than walk away still fumbling with the wallet and the bag. <BR>I am truly sorry to hear of problems with crime in Paris, a city I love. Again, there are certainly areas to avoid as there are in any major city, particularly but not exclusively at night.The Tuileries is not a place I would have put in that category. However, pam,I'm sure you can admit that a wallet dangling on a cord around your neck was, in hindsight, like waving a red flag at a bull. <BR>I hope you all have happier experiences in the future, but I hope the bad time doesn't turn you off Paris, or traveling. <BR>Good luck.

Daniel Lee

Dear Elaine: <BR> <BR>No way in hell would I let this deter me from traveling to Paris. I've been to Brasil and it's pretty tough out there, but with some good sense and precautions, we didn't run into any problems. (And all we kept hearing about Brasil were the horror stories of muggings and being held at gunpoint.) We had a fabulous time and I intend on doing the same in Paris. <BR> <BR>It just surprised me that there were so many pickpockets in Paris. I've always thought it as one of the safest cities in Europe but I guess anybody with money is a target anywhere. Thank you all for your input. I always wear a money belt when I travel and it is very secure. I would like to bring around a camera though, and am wondering how to carry that around. I think I'm gonna put it in a fanny pack but strap it around my shoulder and neck, close to my body. <BR> <BR>Anybody else know of any other pickpocketer's techniques? I would just like to know of what to be aware. <BR> <BR>Thanks, <BR> <BR>Daniel

John

I've visited Paris many times (more than 25 times) and lived there for a year as well. I never had my pocket picked. I have seen others have trouble with gypsy kids a few times and have heard others who did get pick pocketed. Most of the problems occur in the Metro stations or on the Metro which I only used a few times. <BR> <BR>I did have a sport jacket stolen out of a rental car right under my nose. It was around 2:00AM and I was lost. I saw a taxi and stopped to get directions. I got out of the car and walked over to the taxi to ask the driver directions. I left the car running and unlocked. When I got out of my car I did noticed a male walking in my direction, but didn't think much of it. When I got back to the car I looked into the back seat where I had left my jacket and it was gone. I did go to the police, but there was little they could do or did. <BR> <BR>When I lived in Paris, my car was broken into 3 or 4 times and parts removed. Broken windows, gear shift knob removed, electric window control removed, front tires and wheels. I lived in the 16th which was a very nice area. Many residents in the area have expensive cars which does draw the thieves. <BR> <BR>Overall, I never really felt threatened walking around Paris at any hour and consider Paris one of the safest cities in the world. My local friends did warn me that the city is not that safe and that I should take some care where I went. I think the biggest problem in Europe is theft. They really don't have violent crimes such as muggings, murders, rapes, etc. which is more prevalent in the US. <BR> <BR>In reply to where are the "hotspots" for pickpockets .... anyplace there are crowds and/or a lot of tourists. I've also read that professional pick pockets would pretty much go unnoticed since their appearance would not be alarming at all. They will appear to be quiet, reserved looking, middle age man or woman. They also can strike anywhere, not just in crowds. They often prey where people feel comfortable and their guard may be down. I've also read that there is little you can do if you've been selected. These people have an uncanny skill and don't often leave empty handed. <BR> <BR>The best or only defense you can offer is not to flaunt what you have. Don't walk around with your wallet hanging out of your back pocket or dangling around your neck. And don't carry more money than you can afford to lose. With credit cards and ATM's there really isn't a need to carry a lot of cash around with you. As for your credit cards, don't carry them all around with you. Keep spares separate just in case of loss or theft. Before going to Europe, remove everything from your wallet or pocketbook that you can't or don't need in Europe .... library cards, retail store credit cards, Blockbuster video rental cards, personal checkbooks, etc. Only take what you will need and spares. Also take copies of your passport, air tickets, driver's license with you. Write down your credit card account numbers or make a copy of it with the telephone numbers you need to call to report a loss or theft. <BR> <BR>Daniel, you asked what are the odds of getting pickpocketed. I don't know. It does happen. I would guess it is not a big number. A lot of people go to Paris. However, if it should happen to you, you want to make sure it will not be catastrophic. The consensus is that the safest place to carry your money is in a money belt or pouch under your clothes. Keep very little in your pockets.

pam

Certainly my Tuileries incident has not deterred me from traveling. In fact, on the same trip I consciously felt less safe in NYC than I had anywhere in Europe, even when I had been alone. (Actually my worst travel experience ever was being fondled on a crowded NYC sidewalk--different trip.) I know I was an idiot for having my neck wallet outside my shirt; I learned my lesson. To answer Bob's question, this was in broad daylight and I just guess they ran up to us (it was in 1985). They didn't materialize out of thin air but it all happened very quickly. Yes, the cardboard was to block my view of the hand going into my neck pouch, and the writing on it was to distract me. They were very light fingered. On that same trip I had already been to Rome and had had no problems there. My family is going to Italy this summer and I am not worried about street crime; it is just a reality to deal with. I'm much more concerned about being separated from my son in the crowds. Part of the reason I love to travel is that it takes me off the auto-pilot I sometimes seem to be on at home (driving to work w/o noticing the trip, for example). Another suggestion that might be a preventative is to not load yourself down too much in transit. As for why pickpockets would hang around Notre Dame (or any tourist site), there are scads of people, likely carrying a lot of money, craning their necks to look up, around, down, anywhere but at the people next to them. I'm sure I looked like a tourist compared to the Parisians. Some things can't be helped!

Bly

Daniel: I've found it helpful to carry a moneybelt/neck wallet with some emergency $$ and a credit card, but to carry a small wallet with spending money somewhere more accessible. I guestimate what I'll be spending entrance fees, meals, junk and have that in a button/velcro pocket. That way you you don't have to get out a money belt from your pants/under your shirt and everyone sees what your carrying around. And if your wallet does get stolen, you only lost a few bucks. Also, if your carrying a backpack, fannypack - in a crowd - carry it in front of you. The one time I put my wallet and daytimer in my backpack, It was gone and I didn't find out until I got back to the hotel. Enjoy your trip, don't get too paranoid, travel smart.! <BR>

daniel lee

hey guys, <BR> <BR>yeah, the one concern that i always have when using a money belt is exposing it get money later and showing everybody what i have. like if i'm using a money belt, then i must have a LOT of money in there or something (which i won't). i plan on keeping a little bit of spending money in my pocket or somewhere, but i also don't want that stolen either. maybe i'll keep it in my sock? <BR> <BR>or maybe i'll quit babbling about this and blowing it up out of proportion. <BR> <BR>daniel

dan

I always wear a money belt underneath and keep some spending money in my front pocket. When in a place that you feel uncomfortable, just try to keep a hand on or in your pocket. It would take a brave and skilled thief to try to take it then. When I need money out of the money belt, I turn away from where people can see or do it in a restroom or other out-of-the way place (under the table when eating is another good time). I think even if someone knows you are wearing a money belt, you are pretty safe unless in a situation when you are concerned about violence or more brazen attempts to rob you, such as late-night on a dark street or in a big metro station. Haven't had anything taken yet, but I have had several occasions when I thought I was being targeted (eg., Paris, Strasbourg).

dan

I always wear a money belt underneath and keep some spending money in my front pocket. When in a place that you feel uncomfortable, just try to keep a hand on or in your pocket. It would take a brave and skilled thief to try to take it then. When I need money out of the money belt, I turn away from where people can see or do it in a restroom or other out-of-the way place (under the table when eating is another good time). I think even if someone knows you are wearing a money belt, you are pretty safe unless in a situation when you are concerned about violence or more brazen attempts to rob you, such as late-night on a dark street or in a big metro station. Haven't had anything taken yet, but I have had several occasions when I thought I was being targeted (eg., Paris, Strasbourg).

dan

I always wear a money belt underneath and keep some spending money in my front pocket. When in a place that you feel uncomfortable, just try to keep a hand on or in your pocket. It would take a brave and skilled thief to try to take it then. When I need money out of the money belt, I turn away from where people can see or do it in a restroom or other out-of-the way place (under the table when eating is another good time). I think even if someone knows you are wearing a money belt, you are pretty safe unless in a situation when you are concerned about violence or more brazen attempts to rob you, such as late-night on a dark street or in a big metro station. Haven't had anything taken yet, but I have had several occasions when I thought I was being targeted (eg., Paris, Strasbourg).

Al

Old sailors carry cash in their socks. Never carry a wallet in your hip pocket.Walk facing the traffic. Keep away from the front of buildings. Never carry a shoulder bag and walk along the curb -- guys on motor scooters will hook the strap (Italians make a good living doing this). In any city, watch to see if anyone is looking at your closely. Beware of men or women carrying a raincoat over their arm. Look out for strangers coming straight at you with a folded newspaper in their hand (it may contain a squirt bottle of catchup or mustard, used as an attention diverter when they give you a shot). Look out for kids who circle you. If you see someone staring at you on the subway, get off quickly and catch the next train. Remember "The French Connection"? Well, it happens.