Pedraza question
Sep 16th, 2008, 01:12 PM
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Pedraza question
I was reading Maribel's Madrid guide and she highly recommends visiting Pedraza... so the question is is it possible to do both Pedraza and Segovia on the same day or should you plan for separate days...
Also, since we are traveling in the 2nd half of december and driving there... would the road conditions be bad around that time? (snow/sleet etc...)
Thanks...
Also, since we are traveling in the 2nd half of december and driving there... would the road conditions be bad around that time? (snow/sleet etc...)
Thanks...
Sep 16th, 2008, 01:37 PM
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Hi vibhav,
I do highly recommend visiting Pedraza but I would do it as a day trip from Segovia. So since you'll have a car, I suggest you overnight in Segovia (I have a list of recommended hotels in my guide), then take a drive the next day northeast on the N110, then the SG-V 2316 up to Pedraza. The drive is very scenic. From Pedraza (with decent weather) you could continue up to Sepúveda and the Duratón gorge and come back to Segovia via Turégano, or head back to Madrid on the A-1.
Just one note-
if you venture to Pedraza on a weekday, such as Mon./Tues., you'll find most of the shops closed, along with the castle. It's very sleepy on weekdays, coming alive on Fri.-Sat.-Sun. with big crowds.
So, if you go on a Sat./Sun. you should reserve well in advance to dine at any of the restaurants, since it's an extremely popular weekend lunch spot for people from Madrid.
Amsdon, escrunchy and I are very fond of El Yantar.
www.elyantardepedraza.com
And if you have time to spend the night, we also love the Hospedería de Santo Domingo.
www.hospederiadesantodomingo.com
It can be quite cold in the Segovia province the 2nd week of December, so bundle up. And yes, you may see some snow-you just never know.
I do highly recommend visiting Pedraza but I would do it as a day trip from Segovia. So since you'll have a car, I suggest you overnight in Segovia (I have a list of recommended hotels in my guide), then take a drive the next day northeast on the N110, then the SG-V 2316 up to Pedraza. The drive is very scenic. From Pedraza (with decent weather) you could continue up to Sepúveda and the Duratón gorge and come back to Segovia via Turégano, or head back to Madrid on the A-1.
Just one note-
if you venture to Pedraza on a weekday, such as Mon./Tues., you'll find most of the shops closed, along with the castle. It's very sleepy on weekdays, coming alive on Fri.-Sat.-Sun. with big crowds.
So, if you go on a Sat./Sun. you should reserve well in advance to dine at any of the restaurants, since it's an extremely popular weekend lunch spot for people from Madrid.
Amsdon, escrunchy and I are very fond of El Yantar.
www.elyantardepedraza.com
And if you have time to spend the night, we also love the Hospedería de Santo Domingo.
www.hospederiadesantodomingo.com
It can be quite cold in the Segovia province the 2nd week of December, so bundle up. And yes, you may see some snow-you just never know.
Sep 16th, 2008, 01:45 PM
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Pedraza is small so you could walk through the village in a one hour. I think it is one of the most handsome villages I have ever visited and you really should allow more time to get the real flavor. The highlight of any visit is a meal at one of the asadores and this would take up a few hours. I would guess that Pedraza would bee very quiet during the week in December.
You cannot do justice to Segovia in one afternoon, but you could get an overview.
Here is my report; also look for an excellent report by Amsdon:
http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...p;tid=34810840
You cannot do justice to Segovia in one afternoon, but you could get an overview.
Here is my report; also look for an excellent report by Amsdon:
http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...p;tid=34810840
Sep 16th, 2008, 01:54 PM
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Hi escrunchy,
I think our posts crossed in cyberspace!
vibhav,
Just in case you haven't seen it, I've recently completely redone my Segovia guide and added a lot of info regarding touring in the province.
www.maribelsguides.com
I think our posts crossed in cyberspace!
vibhav,
Just in case you haven't seen it, I've recently completely redone my Segovia guide and added a lot of info regarding touring in the province.
www.maribelsguides.com
Sep 16th, 2008, 02:20 PM
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vibhav,
I just looked at your revised itinerary on your other thread and realize that you have Segovia as a day trip on the next to the last day of your 4 night stay in Madrid.
So, two thoughts:
You don't have time for both to do them justice on the same day, 12/16 (Tues.), and it's really tedious and expensive to rent a car just for a day trip from Madrid and hassle with the horrendous traffic.
And you don't need a car at all to travel to Segovia. It's now easy and inexpensive to take the Avant high speed train (30 min.) from Chamartín rail station. See the schedule here:
www.renfe.es
I'd save Pedraza for another trip and concentrate on the many sites in Madrid with a day trip via train to Segovia.
I just looked at your revised itinerary on your other thread and realize that you have Segovia as a day trip on the next to the last day of your 4 night stay in Madrid.
So, two thoughts:
You don't have time for both to do them justice on the same day, 12/16 (Tues.), and it's really tedious and expensive to rent a car just for a day trip from Madrid and hassle with the horrendous traffic.
And you don't need a car at all to travel to Segovia. It's now easy and inexpensive to take the Avant high speed train (30 min.) from Chamartín rail station. See the schedule here:
www.renfe.es
I'd save Pedraza for another trip and concentrate on the many sites in Madrid with a day trip via train to Segovia.
Sep 16th, 2008, 08:16 PM
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vibhav thanks to Maribel & then Ekscrunchy we discovered Pedraza.
I agree w/ Maribel if you only have one day Segovia is enough.
Pedraza was the end of our trip and I needed the R&R due to a surgery a couple of months prior. We started at the Infanta Isabel in Segovia and were very happy there. In Pedraza the Hospederia de Santo Domingo was great and the view & rooms lovely. And we loved the storks. Very peaceful and calm.
As Maribel said Pedraza is sleepy mid week. It was perfect for us under the circumstances but may be too quiet for others. I can see that too.
We really enjoyed Yantar and also had a wonderful meal at Restaurante Codex Calixtinus, a very short 7 minute drive from Pedraza. Really recommend both places.
Here's part II of my (lengthy) report which deals with that...
http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...sdon&fid=2
I agree w/ Maribel if you only have one day Segovia is enough.
Pedraza was the end of our trip and I needed the R&R due to a surgery a couple of months prior. We started at the Infanta Isabel in Segovia and were very happy there. In Pedraza the Hospederia de Santo Domingo was great and the view & rooms lovely. And we loved the storks. Very peaceful and calm.
As Maribel said Pedraza is sleepy mid week. It was perfect for us under the circumstances but may be too quiet for others. I can see that too.
We really enjoyed Yantar and also had a wonderful meal at Restaurante Codex Calixtinus, a very short 7 minute drive from Pedraza. Really recommend both places.
Here's part II of my (lengthy) report which deals with that...
http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...sdon&fid=2
Sep 16th, 2008, 08:41 PM
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Sep 17th, 2008, 07:17 AM
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Thanks Maribel, ekscrunchy and amsdon for your valuable advise...
We are now increasing a day in our itinerary due to ticket prices etc, so I think we should have a spare day in Madrid to visit Pedraza... Here is the revised itinerary, Let me know what you think! Also, as a sidenote, I am slightly concerned about driving in that region in the 2nd half of december...
12/13/2008 Fly out
12/14/2008 Reach Madrid (5 nights) - Acclimitize
12/15/2008 Madrid
12/16/2008 Day Trip Segovia
12/17/2008 Madrid
12/18/2008 Day trip Pedraza (don't want to stay in Segovia otherwise it will break up nights and it is difficult with a little kid)
12/19/2008 Drive via Toeldo to Cordoba (2 nights)
12/20/2008 Cordoba
12/21/2008 Drive to Sevilla (3 nights)
12/22/2008 Sevilla
12/23/2008 Sevilla
12/24/2008 Drive to Ronda (3 nights)
12/25/2008 White towns
12/26/2008 White towns
12/27/2008 Drive to Granada (2 nights)
12/28/2008 Granada
12/29/2008 Drive back to Madrid (1 night)
12/30/2008 Fly out
Also, Maribel...your guides are fantastic...I will download the latest Segovia version... Also, do you know when you are planning to post the Toledo guide?
Thanks!
We are now increasing a day in our itinerary due to ticket prices etc, so I think we should have a spare day in Madrid to visit Pedraza... Here is the revised itinerary, Let me know what you think! Also, as a sidenote, I am slightly concerned about driving in that region in the 2nd half of december...
12/13/2008 Fly out
12/14/2008 Reach Madrid (5 nights) - Acclimitize
12/15/2008 Madrid
12/16/2008 Day Trip Segovia
12/17/2008 Madrid
12/18/2008 Day trip Pedraza (don't want to stay in Segovia otherwise it will break up nights and it is difficult with a little kid)
12/19/2008 Drive via Toeldo to Cordoba (2 nights)
12/20/2008 Cordoba
12/21/2008 Drive to Sevilla (3 nights)
12/22/2008 Sevilla
12/23/2008 Sevilla
12/24/2008 Drive to Ronda (3 nights)
12/25/2008 White towns
12/26/2008 White towns
12/27/2008 Drive to Granada (2 nights)
12/28/2008 Granada
12/29/2008 Drive back to Madrid (1 night)
12/30/2008 Fly out
Also, Maribel...your guides are fantastic...I will download the latest Segovia version... Also, do you know when you are planning to post the Toledo guide?
Thanks!
Sep 17th, 2008, 11:43 AM
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Hi vibhav,
My webmaster took the Toledo guide down to add pictures, and I hope to have it back up within a few days. Ditto to my new Granada guide.
I read from your other thread that because of traveling with your 3 yr. old, you'll have a car with you for the entire trip so as not to have to cart the stroller on and off the trains.
Have you chosen your Madrid hotel with garage? Please be aware of the horrendous morning traffic which will be very time-consuming to negotiate to get out of town for your two Segovia province day trips. So if you do plan to have that car in Madrid (and you'll need a car to drive to Pedraza), be sure that it's located in an area of the city that will allow you a "fairly easy" exit onto a ring road without wasting valuable touring time mired in stress-producing commuter traffic.
Ditto to Córdoba and Sevilla, where negotiating the tiny, narrow streets of the maze-like inner quarters can be a huge challenge. Best to book a hotel with garage outside of the maze. And in Granada, for simplicity's sake, I'd stay on the Alhambra hill. It's so easy to follow the ring road, the Ronda Sur, up to the Alhambra hill hotels. It completely circumvents downtown. A breeze compared to the difficulty of finding your downtown hotel. Plus much of downtown is closed off now to vehicular traffic.
Just my thoughts...I mention the above because I used to be a car commuter way back in the time when the traffic wasn't even that nail-biting. Now the only time I enjoy driving in the city is on Sunday mornings in August when the city streets are practically deserted!O
My webmaster took the Toledo guide down to add pictures, and I hope to have it back up within a few days. Ditto to my new Granada guide.
I read from your other thread that because of traveling with your 3 yr. old, you'll have a car with you for the entire trip so as not to have to cart the stroller on and off the trains.
Have you chosen your Madrid hotel with garage? Please be aware of the horrendous morning traffic which will be very time-consuming to negotiate to get out of town for your two Segovia province day trips. So if you do plan to have that car in Madrid (and you'll need a car to drive to Pedraza), be sure that it's located in an area of the city that will allow you a "fairly easy" exit onto a ring road without wasting valuable touring time mired in stress-producing commuter traffic.
Ditto to Córdoba and Sevilla, where negotiating the tiny, narrow streets of the maze-like inner quarters can be a huge challenge. Best to book a hotel with garage outside of the maze. And in Granada, for simplicity's sake, I'd stay on the Alhambra hill. It's so easy to follow the ring road, the Ronda Sur, up to the Alhambra hill hotels. It completely circumvents downtown. A breeze compared to the difficulty of finding your downtown hotel. Plus much of downtown is closed off now to vehicular traffic.
Just my thoughts...I mention the above because I used to be a car commuter way back in the time when the traffic wasn't even that nail-biting. Now the only time I enjoy driving in the city is on Sunday mornings in August when the city streets are practically deserted!O
Sep 17th, 2008, 12:02 PM
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Thank yo so much Maribel...
On the cars topic, I had read somewhere that I could park the car somewhere in the garage away from the ring road and then use the public transport system and still stay close to the center of the city... The problem is generally not the stroller, it is the other things like suitcases, bags etc which I will have to carry myself since my wife would take care of the kid, or vice versa... with 3 suitcases (especially in winter when you need more jackets etc.), 1-2 hand bags, 1 stroller and a kid, it becomes difficult to travel light and navigate for 1-2 persons with that much stuff in a public transport system....
so, still if having a car a bad idea? Please suggest if there is a better way to do this...
Thanks again!
On the cars topic, I had read somewhere that I could park the car somewhere in the garage away from the ring road and then use the public transport system and still stay close to the center of the city... The problem is generally not the stroller, it is the other things like suitcases, bags etc which I will have to carry myself since my wife would take care of the kid, or vice versa... with 3 suitcases (especially in winter when you need more jackets etc.), 1-2 hand bags, 1 stroller and a kid, it becomes difficult to travel light and navigate for 1-2 persons with that much stuff in a public transport system....
so, still if having a car a bad idea? Please suggest if there is a better way to do this...
Thanks again!
Sep 17th, 2008, 12:34 PM
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Hi vibhav and amsdon and ekscrunchy,
I agree with amsdon that a 2 night stay in Segovia afte 3 nights in Madrid might be better than two day trips from Madrid.
But I wouldn't want to see you attempt Segovia to Toledo to Córdoba in one day, particularly if you're planning on sightseeing in Toledo and seeing windmills in Consuegra!
About the weather and road conditions in mid-late December:
I read in your other thread that you had considered Morocco rather than Spain because of the much warmer Dec. weather. So it seems that the possibility of snow, cold weather at that time of year was a real concern in your planning process.
The Segovia province can get quite cold in the winter-I've visited Segovia with snow-so perhaps you might even want to omit the Segovia section from your itinerary entirely, save it for another trip, and in mid-late December keep your trip to Madrid and points SOUTH, where you'll be much more likely to have warmer temperatures.
Rather than Segovia to the north, you might want to consider those 2 nights in Toledo before heading south to Andalucía. It won't necessarily be warmer there, but at least you'd be headed in the right direction towards the warmer climate.
And Toledo is a challenging place to visit with its narrow, winding, very hilly, cobblestone streets. It requires work-kind of labor intensive. When we head south by car, we always spend the night in Toledo rather than try to rush through it on a day stop.
Just a thought....
I agree with amsdon that a 2 night stay in Segovia afte 3 nights in Madrid might be better than two day trips from Madrid.
But I wouldn't want to see you attempt Segovia to Toledo to Córdoba in one day, particularly if you're planning on sightseeing in Toledo and seeing windmills in Consuegra!
About the weather and road conditions in mid-late December:
I read in your other thread that you had considered Morocco rather than Spain because of the much warmer Dec. weather. So it seems that the possibility of snow, cold weather at that time of year was a real concern in your planning process.
The Segovia province can get quite cold in the winter-I've visited Segovia with snow-so perhaps you might even want to omit the Segovia section from your itinerary entirely, save it for another trip, and in mid-late December keep your trip to Madrid and points SOUTH, where you'll be much more likely to have warmer temperatures.
Rather than Segovia to the north, you might want to consider those 2 nights in Toledo before heading south to Andalucía. It won't necessarily be warmer there, but at least you'd be headed in the right direction towards the warmer climate.
And Toledo is a challenging place to visit with its narrow, winding, very hilly, cobblestone streets. It requires work-kind of labor intensive. When we head south by car, we always spend the night in Toledo rather than try to rush through it on a day stop.
Just a thought....
Sep 18th, 2008, 07:09 AM
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Hi Maribel,
Thanks for your responses....
So, the question I was discussing with my wife yesterday was if we can do that whole trip using public transport or not? If no, where all will we have to get a rental car?
Also, I am finding renfe.es not too english friendly...is there any other website that would be more english friendly that I may use to look for prices/timing etc?
Please let me know and thanks again for your help!
Thanks for your responses....
So, the question I was discussing with my wife yesterday was if we can do that whole trip using public transport or not? If no, where all will we have to get a rental car?
Also, I am finding renfe.es not too english friendly...is there any other website that would be more english friendly that I may use to look for prices/timing etc?
Please let me know and thanks again for your help!
Sep 18th, 2008, 07:20 AM
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Can you rent a car at the airport on arrival and drive directly to Pedraza? Remember that the town will be very quiet during the week and many places might be closed. What about seeing Madrid at the end of your trip?
Have you tried:
http://www.bahn.de/international/view/en/index.shtml
Have you tried:
http://www.bahn.de/international/view/en/index.shtml
Sep 18th, 2008, 10:25 AM
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Eks that is a good point to remind everyone. As picturesque as Pedraza is, as you know the town gets going at 10 am and then closed during siesta as well. When we were there mid week only a handful of shops opened at all, and we were the only folks there in the hotel, which as aok with us but may see too quiet for some.
We liked the tranquil setting, the mountain views & the storks (and the food) but just wanted to make sure vibhav realized that part.
We liked the tranquil setting, the mountain views & the storks (and the food) but just wanted to make sure vibhav realized that part.
Sep 18th, 2008, 10:38 AM
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Yes, Pedraza is *extremely* quiet during the week with many of the lovely artisan shops not open at all.
While I love being there then at the very end of a trip to wind down, as we did with friends this April, or on the first day of a journey north to get over jet lag, as I mentioned in my guide, it's a very sleepy place on weekdays, coming "alive" on wkds. when madrileños come up for shopping and for the roast lamb ritual.
About Renfe, it isn't very user friendly at all. I've tried to help folks with that by writing a Guide to Purchasing Renfe Tickets on Line on my web page.
If you were to rent a car upon arrival on Sun. 12/14 and drive directly to Pedraza, plan on a 90 minute drive from the airport. We do it in less, but we know the way extremely well. You'd be arriving maybe for lunch? and then between 6-8 pm the day trippers leave, and you'd have the village basically to yourselves.
I really, really would avoid having a car in Madrid. Having a car in Madrid-Córdoba-Sevilla-Granada is just a tremendous hassle-it's an albatross, and parking fees can add considerable expensee.
You could certainly do part of your trip by train:
AVE from Madrid to Córdoba
AVE from Córdoba to Sevilla
Train from Granada to Madrid (long ride-no high speed train)
BUT, you'll need a car to explore the white towns and Ronda. And since you'd want a car for that portion, I'd take the car on to Granada ONLY if your hotel is located on the Alhambra hill, which you can easily reach via the Carretera de Circunvalación-Ronda Sur, which takes you around the incredible maze that is downtown. I'll have my Granada guide up on my web page in a few days.
Just a few more thoughts...
While I love being there then at the very end of a trip to wind down, as we did with friends this April, or on the first day of a journey north to get over jet lag, as I mentioned in my guide, it's a very sleepy place on weekdays, coming "alive" on wkds. when madrileños come up for shopping and for the roast lamb ritual.
About Renfe, it isn't very user friendly at all. I've tried to help folks with that by writing a Guide to Purchasing Renfe Tickets on Line on my web page.
If you were to rent a car upon arrival on Sun. 12/14 and drive directly to Pedraza, plan on a 90 minute drive from the airport. We do it in less, but we know the way extremely well. You'd be arriving maybe for lunch? and then between 6-8 pm the day trippers leave, and you'd have the village basically to yourselves.
I really, really would avoid having a car in Madrid. Having a car in Madrid-Córdoba-Sevilla-Granada is just a tremendous hassle-it's an albatross, and parking fees can add considerable expensee.
You could certainly do part of your trip by train:
AVE from Madrid to Córdoba
AVE from Córdoba to Sevilla
Train from Granada to Madrid (long ride-no high speed train)
BUT, you'll need a car to explore the white towns and Ronda. And since you'd want a car for that portion, I'd take the car on to Granada ONLY if your hotel is located on the Alhambra hill, which you can easily reach via the Carretera de Circunvalación-Ronda Sur, which takes you around the incredible maze that is downtown. I'll have my Granada guide up on my web page in a few days.
Just a few more thoughts...
Sep 18th, 2008, 12:04 PM
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Thanks ekscrunchy, amsdon and Maribel... This is extremely helpful...
I am getting this feeling that I may have to leave out Pedraza from the trip (I don't want to!
)
Also, I may not rent a car in Madrid at all and use Trains to visit segovia/cordoba/seville as well...
From Seville, get a car for Andalusia and drop the car off in Granada... Take train back to Madrid...
The only thing I don't understand is how do I do Toledo then from Madrid without a car?
Thanks again...We really appreciate all this help...
Let me look at Maribel's website to see her help on using renfe...
amsdon, unfortunately, as much as I would hate to do it, I am getting this feeling that I may have to drop Pedraza from the itinerary...
ekscrunchy....the bahn site is not that good either..
I am getting this feeling that I may have to leave out Pedraza from the trip (I don't want to!
)Also, I may not rent a car in Madrid at all and use Trains to visit segovia/cordoba/seville as well...
From Seville, get a car for Andalusia and drop the car off in Granada... Take train back to Madrid...
The only thing I don't understand is how do I do Toledo then from Madrid without a car?
Thanks again...We really appreciate all this help...
Let me look at Maribel's website to see her help on using renfe...
amsdon, unfortunately, as much as I would hate to do it, I am getting this feeling that I may have to drop Pedraza from the itinerary...
ekscrunchy....the bahn site is not that good either..
Sep 18th, 2008, 12:24 PM
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vibhav,
I do truly love tiny, quiet Pedraza-it's one of the most beautiful, pristine medieval villages in all of Spain, and I can tell that you really have your heart set on it.
But...it doesn't fit easily into a Madrid-Andalucía itinerary, since it's located 90 min. northeast of Madrid.
And it does REQUIRE a car. It ideally should be combined with the capital, Segovia with its cathedral, aqueduct and Alcázar, and other lovely spots in the province-the castles of Cuéllar, Turégano and Coca, the spectacular Duratón gorge and stunningly perched Sepúlveda.
About Toledo:
The AVANT high speed train runs from Madrid's Atocha station to Toledo and takes 30 min. One way: 9 euros.
Unfortunately to get to Córdoba-Sevilla by train from Toledo, you'd need to backtrack to Madrid's Atocha station to catch the AVE down to both cities.
And remember that Toledo is "labor intensive" as a sightseeing destination, so you don't want to cut your time there short-it's not a "quick" visit if you want to do it justice. Again, I don't do Toledo as a sightseeing stop on a one-day drive from Madrid to those 3 Andalusian capitals.
Just a few more thoughts..Hope we're not thoroughly confusing you!
I do truly love tiny, quiet Pedraza-it's one of the most beautiful, pristine medieval villages in all of Spain, and I can tell that you really have your heart set on it.
But...it doesn't fit easily into a Madrid-Andalucía itinerary, since it's located 90 min. northeast of Madrid.
And it does REQUIRE a car. It ideally should be combined with the capital, Segovia with its cathedral, aqueduct and Alcázar, and other lovely spots in the province-the castles of Cuéllar, Turégano and Coca, the spectacular Duratón gorge and stunningly perched Sepúlveda.
About Toledo:
The AVANT high speed train runs from Madrid's Atocha station to Toledo and takes 30 min. One way: 9 euros.
Unfortunately to get to Córdoba-Sevilla by train from Toledo, you'd need to backtrack to Madrid's Atocha station to catch the AVE down to both cities.
And remember that Toledo is "labor intensive" as a sightseeing destination, so you don't want to cut your time there short-it's not a "quick" visit if you want to do it justice. Again, I don't do Toledo as a sightseeing stop on a one-day drive from Madrid to those 3 Andalusian capitals.
Just a few more thoughts..Hope we're not thoroughly confusing you!
