bakeryday

Wondering if anyone with real life experience in the Italian lakes region/Switzerland area can help me to simplify this itinerary.

8/4 -- Paris->Zurich -- 4 hrs
8/5 -- Zurich->Chur->Zermatt (Glacier Express) -- 8 hrs?
8/6
8/7
8/8
8/9
8/10
8/11 -- Zermatt->Visp->Milan->Lugano, drive to Menaggio -- 6-7 hrs
8/12
8/13
8/14
8/15
8/16
8/17
8/18 -- drive to Lugano, Lugano->Zurich->Munich -- 9 hrs

I've been using the Swiss rail site and this map of Swiss transit:
http://www.swisstravelsystem.ch/file...-11-EN-WEB.pdf

My concern is that there are too many *connections*. My partner and I are doing some extended traveling and will have been on the road 6 months. We also have, by necessity for our work, three large suitcases and two small ones. We can move them all ourselves, but it's a shlep.

If anyone can think of a way to start in Paris, end in Munich, and include Zermatt, Menaggio, and the Glacier Express -- in August -- with smoother logistics, I would be much obliged. Any way to reduce travel time, # of connections, traffic stress, etc.

Thanks for any helpful suggestions!

Michel_Paris

Are you locked into choice of using rail?

bakeryday

@ Michel_Paris -- We definitely want to do the Glacier Express and don't want to fly, but otherwise we're open to suggestions...

So please, suggest away!

Dukey1

If you are using rail then you might at least CONSIDER traveling by rail from Milan to VARENNA and then take the ferry over to Menaggio. Admittedly having all those bags in a CAR might be easier but am not sure why you are routing yourself via Lugano unless THAT is yet another stopover for you.

Five days/nights in Zermatt? Why? Hiking?

Your responses will help

PalenQ

In Switzerland IMO go by train - fantastic system and some Alpine gems can not even be reached by car only train. Great sources of info on Swiss trains (and passes and half-fare cards, etc which can be surprisingly cost-effective even for seemingly limited travel - www.swisstravelsystem.com; www.budgeteuropetravel.com and www.ricksteves.com.

swandav2000

Hi bakeryday,

Agree that the train is the way to go in Switzerland; as PalenQ notes, it's fantastic, and it's easy and convenient.

Not sure if you're super-budget travellers, but you can ship your bags (or the heaviest bags) separately on the train. Same-day service (in by 09.00, pick up at 18.00) costs 22 chf, and two-day service costs 12 chf.

I think I would be tempted to send two or three of the heaviest bags from Zürich to Lugano and pick them up just as you leave Switzerland. That way, you can just carry what you need for your time in Zermatt.

Have fun!

s

qwovadis

Menaggio from Lugano shuttle for me in the past 12 euro
Grand Hotel Menaggio or better ferry 5 minutes to www.bellagio.info Residence D'Ulivo 120 euros hotelscombined.com on the Grounds of Grand Hotel Serbeloni
AWESOME. seat61.com/switzerland best train info. Have fun!

qwovadis

In case I did notmake myself clear above going to Milan to get to Menagggio makes NO sense if you will look at a map you will spend hundreds more than you need to. just shuttle or drive from Lugano very close.

Dukey1

Going to Milan FIRST and then to Lugano makes NO SENSE, either

PalenQ

-- Zurich->Chur->Zermatt (Glacier Express) -- 8 hrs?>

reconsider this marathon day IMO - the Glacier Express IMO is not nearly the most scenic train in Switzerland - I'd give that nod to the Bernina Pass rail route over which the Bernina Express rolls - in fact to me the most scenic railway in all of Europe I've seen in decades of European rail travel.

And if you go from Chur to St Moritz, stay there then next day take the Bernina Pass railway to Tirano, Italy you can then either go onto Milan by train (via Lake Como - Bellagio a nice easy stop) or take the Bernina Express bus to Lugano.

PalenQ

I might add that there is a road paralleling the Bernina Pass rail route - smack right next to it for the most part so if driving from Switzerland to Milan this could be a nifty and awesomely scenic way to go - scenery at top of the pass is out of this world - glaciers tumbling into a pristine Alpine lake - oh so so awesome!

bakeryday

@ swandav2000 -- thanks for the tip on shipping luggage. I just discovered that simultaneously. It could make a big difference when we're changing platforms.

@ qwovadis & Dukey1 -- the reason for going to Milan first via train is that it's marginally *faster* and has fewer changes than going directly to Lugano.

@ PalenQ -- thank you for the vote for Bernina Pass. It's hard reading about all of this stuff to filter through all of the promotional hoo-ha and get a qualified opinion.

The point of going to Zermatt is hiking, yes, dynamic scenery, returning to a place my sweetheart remembers fondly from his youth.

But we will definitely reconsider Zurich->Chur->Bernina Express->Lugano->Menaggio.

Menaggio is now booked. I fell in love with a flat there and just went for it. We have to get a car too. It's ridiculous, but so gorgeous it was irresistible.

So we have to figure out Paris->?->Menaggio->Munich.

I promise to do a trip report next year when all is said and done ;-)

PalenQ

a sweet way to go between Lugano and Zermatt is to take a train to Locarno and then hop the narrow-gauge Centovalli train, one of Switzerland's iconic scenic mountain railways to Domodossola, Italy and then hop a train for Brig and change there for Zermatt. Scenic the whole way - awesomely scenic at points. If you have a Swiss Pass then it is valid on the Centovalli in Italy too so the whole journey should be covered by a Swiss Pass.

PalenQ

http://www.budgeteuropetravel.com/si...s/rg011210.pdf

For details on the Bernina Pass Railway route click on the above link and read about it in a box on page 15 - good useful info.

PalenQ

the Bernina Pass Railway has the official Bernina Express train, a special tourist-oriented train with recorded commentary en route, poshsier seats and domed observation cars - but there are also regular trains that roll along the exact same rails about hourly that you can just hop on with a pass or ticket and hop off say at the summit station for an hour or so, etc.