Paris to Loire Valley
Dec 24th, 2009, 11:09 AM
#21
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Thank you for your explanation,St. Cirq. I do understand what you are saying. My issue is that my wife can't take alot of windy roads. What is the fast train like (if there is one) from Nice to Avignon? For sure what we have landed on so far is 6 nights in Paris. We are trying to figure out what to do with another 6 nights given that restriction. We thought about flying to Nice and then we thought about taking the fast train from Niceto Avignon and renting a car and seeing Arles, etc. Then drive back up to Paris and fly out.
Dec 24th, 2009, 11:33 AM
#22
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Byron, the TGV from Nice to Avignon takes about 3 hours.
But if I understand the plan that you are now contemplating, you would land in Paris and stay there for 6 nights, then fly to Nice, then take the TGV to Avignon and base yourself in the Bouche-du-Rhone area for another few nights, then drive back to Paris. Have I got this right?
If so, your plan is getting less and less manageable every time you post...because:
1. There's no need to go to the airport in Paris and fly to Nice, then hop on a train to Avignon. You can easily take the TGV direct from Paris to Nice, spend a day or two there, then take the TGV back to Avignon.
2. The Bouche-du-Rhone area has PLENTY of winding roads. I can't imagine your wife being able to stomach driving over Les Alpilles, for example, if she can't take a lot of windy roads.
3. Driving back to Paris would not be much fun, unless you planned, say, to visit Lyon along the way, in which case you could drop the car there and go straight to the airport on a TVG. You can also go straight to the airport on a TVG from Avignon. Of course, if you want to spend the last night in Paris, you can take a TGV from either place into the city.
But if I understand the plan that you are now contemplating, you would land in Paris and stay there for 6 nights, then fly to Nice, then take the TGV to Avignon and base yourself in the Bouche-du-Rhone area for another few nights, then drive back to Paris. Have I got this right?
If so, your plan is getting less and less manageable every time you post...because:
1. There's no need to go to the airport in Paris and fly to Nice, then hop on a train to Avignon. You can easily take the TGV direct from Paris to Nice, spend a day or two there, then take the TGV back to Avignon.
2. The Bouche-du-Rhone area has PLENTY of winding roads. I can't imagine your wife being able to stomach driving over Les Alpilles, for example, if she can't take a lot of windy roads.
3. Driving back to Paris would not be much fun, unless you planned, say, to visit Lyon along the way, in which case you could drop the car there and go straight to the airport on a TVG. You can also go straight to the airport on a TVG from Avignon. Of course, if you want to spend the last night in Paris, you can take a TGV from either place into the city.
Dec 24th, 2009, 12:05 PM
#23
hi Byron,
most of us hit the stage of trip planning that you are presently at - wanting it all. sadly, you can't.
you have 12 days, 6 of them already ear-marked for Paris. now you want to add another 6 days, somewhere different, but without windy roads. could you not simply get the TGV to Nice and spend your 6 days there? the public transport is said to be pretty good in that area and there is plenty to see and do. you could even hire a car for a couple of days to explore the bits that the buses and trains don't reach.
then fly/train back to Paris in time to catch your return flight home.
remember the key to successful holidays: less is more.
have a great trip,
regards, ann
most of us hit the stage of trip planning that you are presently at - wanting it all. sadly, you can't.
you have 12 days, 6 of them already ear-marked for Paris. now you want to add another 6 days, somewhere different, but without windy roads. could you not simply get the TGV to Nice and spend your 6 days there? the public transport is said to be pretty good in that area and there is plenty to see and do. you could even hire a car for a couple of days to explore the bits that the buses and trains don't reach.
then fly/train back to Paris in time to catch your return flight home.
remember the key to successful holidays: less is more.
have a great trip,
regards, ann
Dec 24th, 2009, 01:31 PM
#24
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Ok you guys are really helping us out. We are now landing on two options outside of the 6 days in Paris. One - go to Nice as per St. Cirq. Two - get a rental car (which we like to do in Europe) and go to the Loire Valley for 5 days. These are the two options that seem to make sense given the windy road issue. If we do the Loire Valley, we have been reading about the Castles, etc. We like to see the major ones but we also like the Villages and stopping and enjoying the scenary. So what do you think now? You guys are right. We were trying to do to much. Thanks so much and Merry Christmas.
Dec 26th, 2009, 01:14 AM
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Hello again Byron1,
You seem to fit into the pattern of sightseeing that I did on two occasions. The first time I visited the Loire Valley it was on a walking holiday. Nothing strenuous just gourmet food and luxury accommodation in Chateau's etc.
Here is a little summary for you that you can follow on a map:
It took 7 days.
Day 1.
From Paris to Tours on TGV. Met our group. Then a short journey to
the picturesque village of AZAY-LE-RIDEAU where we spent the night at the Hotel Du Grande Monarque,Place de la Republique.
Fax: 02 47 45 46 25 - visiting the beautiful Chateau (almost across the road).
Day 2.
Walked to the village of Sache` on the Indre River - visited the chateau where Balzac wrote his famous novels. Lunched at a 15thC Inn then walked to the medieval Villaines-les-Rochers where wicker workers practice their skills. Back to Azay-le-Rideau for second night.
Day3.
Walk to castle ruins at Crissy-sur-Manse and through vineyards to Cravant-les-Coteaux for a wine tasting in a cellar deep inside the rock. Lunch at Chinon with it's fortress where Joan of Arc met young Charles II. Then over the River Vienne to our hotel. (sorry can't remember name).
Day 4.
Walking through farms and villages to lunch in a Gothic vaulted room of the Abbey of Seuilly. Then on to picturesque limestone village of Lerne`, through a forest, and onto next hotel in the Priere` St Lazare which is part of the 12th C Abbey of Fontevraud.
Day 5.
After breakfast a guided tour of the Abbey, resting place of Richard The Lion Heart. Then on to CANDES-SAINT-MARTIN, one of Frane's most beautiful villages at the confluence of the rivers Loir and Vienne. Onto Saumur after a river bank picnic lunch.
Day 6.
Walking through villages and on forest tracks to our lunch destination in a Troglodyte cave to sample local specialities.
Overnight was a chateau hotel at Chenehutte-les-Tuffeaux, Fax: 02 41 67 92 24. Tonight is our farewell dinner, a truly memorable elegant feast but before that the Loire river below is viewed from the terrace as we sip cocktails.
Day 7.
Transport to Angers and back to Paris on the TGV.
Byron - I did this same trip some 3-4years ago with my husband but we travelled by car(Hired in Chartres as I said before).. Stayed in Saumur at the Anne de Anjou Hotel overlooking the Loire just for a night.
You seem to fit into the pattern of sightseeing that I did on two occasions. The first time I visited the Loire Valley it was on a walking holiday. Nothing strenuous just gourmet food and luxury accommodation in Chateau's etc.
Here is a little summary for you that you can follow on a map:
It took 7 days.
Day 1.
From Paris to Tours on TGV. Met our group. Then a short journey to
the picturesque village of AZAY-LE-RIDEAU where we spent the night at the Hotel Du Grande Monarque,Place de la Republique.
Fax: 02 47 45 46 25 - visiting the beautiful Chateau (almost across the road).
Day 2.
Walked to the village of Sache` on the Indre River - visited the chateau where Balzac wrote his famous novels. Lunched at a 15thC Inn then walked to the medieval Villaines-les-Rochers where wicker workers practice their skills. Back to Azay-le-Rideau for second night.
Day3.
Walk to castle ruins at Crissy-sur-Manse and through vineyards to Cravant-les-Coteaux for a wine tasting in a cellar deep inside the rock. Lunch at Chinon with it's fortress where Joan of Arc met young Charles II. Then over the River Vienne to our hotel. (sorry can't remember name).
Day 4.
Walking through farms and villages to lunch in a Gothic vaulted room of the Abbey of Seuilly. Then on to picturesque limestone village of Lerne`, through a forest, and onto next hotel in the Priere` St Lazare which is part of the 12th C Abbey of Fontevraud.
Day 5.
After breakfast a guided tour of the Abbey, resting place of Richard The Lion Heart. Then on to CANDES-SAINT-MARTIN, one of Frane's most beautiful villages at the confluence of the rivers Loir and Vienne. Onto Saumur after a river bank picnic lunch.
Day 6.
Walking through villages and on forest tracks to our lunch destination in a Troglodyte cave to sample local specialities.
Overnight was a chateau hotel at Chenehutte-les-Tuffeaux, Fax: 02 41 67 92 24. Tonight is our farewell dinner, a truly memorable elegant feast but before that the Loire river below is viewed from the terrace as we sip cocktails.
Day 7.
Transport to Angers and back to Paris on the TGV.
Byron - I did this same trip some 3-4years ago with my husband but we travelled by car(Hired in Chartres as I said before).. Stayed in Saumur at the Anne de Anjou Hotel overlooking the Loire just for a night.
Dec 26th, 2009, 04:20 AM
#26
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Thank you Tod. I appreciate you taking the time to share your trip. As you all probably have noticed, we are still in the planning stages. Loire sounds great and we do plan on renting a car. May I ask for a bit more help?
Some people say Alsace is a beautiful area to visit as well. What are your thoughts?
Is it possible to do 3 nights in Loire and then 3 nights somewhere in the Alsace area. Then we are doing 6 days in Paris.
If so, where would you recommend we go in Alsace? Tour books (I get ideas from bus trip itineraries) don't show Alsace and that makes me think either it is not a highlight or it may be a great area to visit.
Your thoughts please everyone.
PS - Tod, we like to walk but of course we are wanting to see some countryside and therefore the reason for the car. Where we pick it up will be figured out after we land on our itinerary.
Thanks so much. PS - after I figure this out, I would appreciate any thoughts on great places to stay in this area. We like B&Bs very much as well. We will consider the options now. Then a tough question is what do you guys recommend in Paris in the Saint Germain area. We would like a quiet location for sleeping are are willing to pay around 150 euros a night.
Some people say Alsace is a beautiful area to visit as well. What are your thoughts?
Is it possible to do 3 nights in Loire and then 3 nights somewhere in the Alsace area. Then we are doing 6 days in Paris.
If so, where would you recommend we go in Alsace? Tour books (I get ideas from bus trip itineraries) don't show Alsace and that makes me think either it is not a highlight or it may be a great area to visit.
Your thoughts please everyone.
PS - Tod, we like to walk but of course we are wanting to see some countryside and therefore the reason for the car. Where we pick it up will be figured out after we land on our itinerary.
Thanks so much. PS - after I figure this out, I would appreciate any thoughts on great places to stay in this area. We like B&Bs very much as well. We will consider the options now. Then a tough question is what do you guys recommend in Paris in the Saint Germain area. We would like a quiet location for sleeping are are willing to pay around 150 euros a night.
Dec 26th, 2009, 04:58 AM
#27
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Byron1 - I wish I could say I have been to Alsace and Lorraine (the two seem to go together although Lorraine with it's rolling landscape on the other side of the mountain is the poorer cousin even tho it offers beer and quiche Lorraine)! All I have are a few pages of reference in my EyeWitness guide to France.
By contrast Alsace offers magnificent forests and rugged mountain drives in the Vosges, quaint villages and rich wines.
The Route de Vin is the regions most scenic drive especially in harvest time.
One of the towns mentioned here on this board is Riquewihr (which is on the wine route). Also Strasbourg.
There's gotta be someone, like Ira, who knows this region well.
Looking at my map I wouldn't attempt the two at the same time. Both in opposite directions and to my mind will involve too much travelling- not enough sightseeing.
Paris: Hotels in St. Germain area for about 150euros a night:
I've only stayed at the Hotel Clement on rue Clement. Right in the thick of things.
By contrast Alsace offers magnificent forests and rugged mountain drives in the Vosges, quaint villages and rich wines.
The Route de Vin is the regions most scenic drive especially in harvest time.
One of the towns mentioned here on this board is Riquewihr (which is on the wine route). Also Strasbourg.
There's gotta be someone, like Ira, who knows this region well.
Looking at my map I wouldn't attempt the two at the same time. Both in opposite directions and to my mind will involve too much travelling- not enough sightseeing.
Paris: Hotels in St. Germain area for about 150euros a night:
I've only stayed at the Hotel Clement on rue Clement. Right in the thick of things.
Dec 26th, 2009, 07:41 AM
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Byron, you can either spend a lot of time in the car, which you've said you don't want to do, or spread your 6 days out over more than one area. You can't do both, which you are trying to do.
Of course you could do three days in the Loire and three days in Alsace. I know both of those areas very well, and I could easily plan a trip that would involve seeing everything from Angers and Saumur and Chinon and Amboise and Blois and Chenonceaux and Chambord and Villandry and maybe even more and then race to Alsace and see the entire Route du Vin from Colmar to Strasbourg, with stops in Riquewihr and Ribeauville and Kaysersburg and Obernai and Selestat, and then turn around and do the Route des Cretes and zoom back to Paris. But I'd be in my CAR all the time, jumping out to grab a view of this and that.
I'm getting the sense that you don't really have a clear idea of what these various, and very different, areas of France have to offer. I think maybe you should do some in-depth reading about each of them, and then pick one, just one, and do it justice. Right now, you are literally "all over the map."
Of course you could do three days in the Loire and three days in Alsace. I know both of those areas very well, and I could easily plan a trip that would involve seeing everything from Angers and Saumur and Chinon and Amboise and Blois and Chenonceaux and Chambord and Villandry and maybe even more and then race to Alsace and see the entire Route du Vin from Colmar to Strasbourg, with stops in Riquewihr and Ribeauville and Kaysersburg and Obernai and Selestat, and then turn around and do the Route des Cretes and zoom back to Paris. But I'd be in my CAR all the time, jumping out to grab a view of this and that.
I'm getting the sense that you don't really have a clear idea of what these various, and very different, areas of France have to offer. I think maybe you should do some in-depth reading about each of them, and then pick one, just one, and do it justice. Right now, you are literally "all over the map."
Dec 26th, 2009, 08:37 AM
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<<Byron, you can either spend a lot of time in the car, which you've said you don't want to do, or spread your 6 days out over more than one area.>>
Sheesh, what I meant to say was you can either spend a lot of time in the car or NOT spread your six days out over more than one area.
Sheesh, what I meant to say was you can either spend a lot of time in the car or NOT spread your six days out over more than one area.
Dec 26th, 2009, 10:18 AM
#31
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St. Cirq, again you are helping us out just like others. Both areas have the beauty of the land. I know we have to pick one and I know that is where we will need to land but I am not sure which of the two to pick as they both have tremendous beauty. I am glad I have time to think it out. Do you have a preference?
St. Cirq, I know what you mean.
St. Cirq, I know what you mean.
Dec 26th, 2009, 11:37 AM
#32
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Byron, perhaps it is because I'm jaded, having been to both areas many times, but neither is on my list of favorite parts of France. And they are so entirely different.
The Loire is flat for the most part, with pretty dull (for France) architecture, apart from the castles, of course, which are lovely, and a mediocre (for France) landscape. Angers is a delightful city, the history of the place is relatively easy to understand compared to elsewhere in the country, the cuisine is so-so (for France)...it just doesn't have much of a WOW factor for me.
Alsace is another country entirely, having actually BEEN another country 11 times over the course of history. It has a decidedly Teutonic feel to it, including that slightly kitschy gingerbready look about the architecture. It's hilly and pretty, but again, no WOW factor for me. I always want to keep going and end up in Freiburg. Strasbourg is a nice city, and the Wine Route towns are nice enough. And I'm not much fond of the cuisine or wines, either.
If "tremendous beauty" is what you're seeking, though, IMO there are far more beautiful areas of France. Of course, many of them involve tortuous roads. Somehow the best scenery seems to be along those.
OTOH, if you've never been to the Loire or Alsace, I'm quite sure you won't be disappointed. But I can't really say I have a preference for one over the other.
The Loire is flat for the most part, with pretty dull (for France) architecture, apart from the castles, of course, which are lovely, and a mediocre (for France) landscape. Angers is a delightful city, the history of the place is relatively easy to understand compared to elsewhere in the country, the cuisine is so-so (for France)...it just doesn't have much of a WOW factor for me.
Alsace is another country entirely, having actually BEEN another country 11 times over the course of history. It has a decidedly Teutonic feel to it, including that slightly kitschy gingerbready look about the architecture. It's hilly and pretty, but again, no WOW factor for me. I always want to keep going and end up in Freiburg. Strasbourg is a nice city, and the Wine Route towns are nice enough. And I'm not much fond of the cuisine or wines, either.
If "tremendous beauty" is what you're seeking, though, IMO there are far more beautiful areas of France. Of course, many of them involve tortuous roads. Somehow the best scenery seems to be along those.
OTOH, if you've never been to the Loire or Alsace, I'm quite sure you won't be disappointed. But I can't really say I have a preference for one over the other.
Dec 26th, 2009, 12:05 PM
#33
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St. Cirq, thank you so much for your continued input. Here is the ultimate France destination question for you. Which are your favourite that don't involve trechurous roads (excluding Paris of course)?
Dec 27th, 2009, 07:34 AM
#34
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Ultimate France destination question, indeed. I've been thinking about it since yesterday, and it's taxing my brain. Two problems: 1) I adore the twisty roads allover the country and tend to stay on them about 90 percent of the time, so I don't have a lot of experience on straight highways, except for the gazillion times I've driven from the Dordogne to Provence; 2) except for the north and parts of the west of the country, France has predominantly hilly and mountainous terrain, which means windy roads, unless of course you stick to the autoroutes, which defeats the purpose of hunting down tremendous scenery.
I guess I would have to say Normandy, the Mediterranean coast, or the Atlantic coast around La Rochelle and Ile de Re.
I guess I would have to say Normandy, the Mediterranean coast, or the Atlantic coast around La Rochelle and Ile de Re.
Dec 27th, 2009, 09:41 AM
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St. Cirq, we were waiting for your reply. You are right. My wife can't take windy roads. Some basics stuff she can. As we analyze further, we say Alsace is too similar to Germany and we've done Germany. Then we were reviewing Dijon and Burgandy. Now we are reviewing Loire Valley. We have a lot of time to finalize still as the tickets are only booked. We appreciate your support and everyone else! We need to land on one area outside of Paris only. Paris will be our longest destination of around 6-8 days.
Dec 29th, 2009, 12:32 AM
#36
hi byron,
IMHO if you want a relatively easy and interesting driving holiday, you can't do much better than the Loire. if you pick two bases - say Saumur in the west and ? in the east [i don't know that area so well] you'll be able to see a lot without doing too much driving. Tod's itinerary has some great ideas, but there are loads of other things to see and do and some lovely places to stay. a bit of hunting round this forum should throw up some ideas.
DO resist the temptation to do too much - your first instinct to spend a week in Paris and a week on the Loire was a good one - go with it!
IMHO if you want a relatively easy and interesting driving holiday, you can't do much better than the Loire. if you pick two bases - say Saumur in the west and ? in the east [i don't know that area so well] you'll be able to see a lot without doing too much driving. Tod's itinerary has some great ideas, but there are loads of other things to see and do and some lovely places to stay. a bit of hunting round this forum should throw up some ideas.
DO resist the temptation to do too much - your first instinct to spend a week in Paris and a week on the Loire was a good one - go with it!
Dec 29th, 2009, 10:56 AM
#37
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Annhig, after all the help from everyone above, we are now sure that we will take everyone's opinion and not over do it. We will do Loire Valley and Paris. We are now reviewing the hotel in that area. We have landed on Amboise at Le Manoir Les Minimes. Has anyone stayed there? Trip Advisor gives great reviews. We are looking for a place to stay outside of Versailles for one night. Any suggestions? We continue to plan. Thanks everyone. Any good suggestions for restaurants in the area would also be appreciated. Thanks everyone. I will do another post on Paris.
Dec 30th, 2009, 04:26 AM
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This may be worth researching :
TGV to Vendome
Rent car
Visit Loire valley
Drive south on A75* (free after Clermont Ferrand)
Maybe stay overnight if you wish
Visit Carcassonne, Nimes, etc
Choose to drive or train back (check drop off fees Vendome - Nimes) TGV Nimes - Paris is 3 hrs
Info on travel and latest news in Languedoc : http://the-languedoc-page.com/newsletter.htm
*A75 is a new autoroute passing over the Massif Central with magnificent views of the terrain and perched medieval villages. It crosses the "almost" new Millau bridge. The last stretch from Le Caylar to the coast is stunning as you suddenly realise that you are not in the windswept mountains but are surrounded by vines and olives (somehow even the light seems different).
Peter
TGV to Vendome
Rent car
Visit Loire valley
Drive south on A75* (free after Clermont Ferrand)
Maybe stay overnight if you wish
Visit Carcassonne, Nimes, etc
Choose to drive or train back (check drop off fees Vendome - Nimes) TGV Nimes - Paris is 3 hrs
Info on travel and latest news in Languedoc : http://the-languedoc-page.com/newsletter.htm
*A75 is a new autoroute passing over the Massif Central with magnificent views of the terrain and perched medieval villages. It crosses the "almost" new Millau bridge. The last stretch from Le Caylar to the coast is stunning as you suddenly realise that you are not in the windswept mountains but are surrounded by vines and olives (somehow even the light seems different).
Peter
Dec 31st, 2009, 04:26 AM
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Byron1 - This could help: One of the most interesting things you can do whilst travelling through the Loire Valley is to visit a Troglydite cave, of which there are hundreds.
The best one - I went to two others and it was not so good, is this one with the restaurant deep inside the cave:
http://tinyurl.com/ydhvdzd
Not only will you see how millions of mushrooms types are cultivated, there are the snail farms inside as well plus other interesting stuff. The restaurant serves a speciality of the region.
I found the link which gives villages and hotels that were used:
http://www.thewayfarers.com/Our-Walk...-of-the-Kings/
The best one - I went to two others and it was not so good, is this one with the restaurant deep inside the cave:
http://tinyurl.com/ydhvdzd
Not only will you see how millions of mushrooms types are cultivated, there are the snail farms inside as well plus other interesting stuff. The restaurant serves a speciality of the region.
I found the link which gives villages and hotels that were used:
http://www.thewayfarers.com/Our-Walk...-of-the-Kings/
Dec 31st, 2009, 09:11 AM
#40
hi byron,
we went to a cave too, which was used as a "cave" ie wine cellar and seller! many will have the magic word "degustation" outside, which means that they offer wine tastings. we very much enjoyed [and still enjoy] the saumur reds.
we went to a cave too, which was used as a "cave" ie wine cellar and seller! many will have the magic word "degustation" outside, which means that they offer wine tastings. we very much enjoyed [and still enjoy] the saumur reds.
