Hi All,

I'm planning a trip for next September, starting in Paris on the 17th and ending in Rome the 2nd of October. We are a family of four, we have twin 6 year old daughters.

My initial plan is as follows:

- Three days in Paris: Explore the city and then train to Switzerland.
- Six days in Switzerland: here we want to go straight to the Alps. First Bernese Oberland (Wengen or Muerren probably) for three days and then go to Saas Fee or Zermatt for another three days. Then train to Italy.
- Six days in Italy: Pickup a car in the north and the drive to Genova, then drive to Rome stopping for overnights in towns or villages.

So here are my questions:

- Does this make sense or is it too ambitius?
- What is the best way (cheapest and fastest) to go from Paris to BO?
- Should we buy a travel pass in Switzerland? If so, which one?
- Which city in Italy is near Switzerland where we can rent a car?

Sorry if my spelling is incorrect as I'm from Argentina and I'm not fluent in English.

Thank you very much,

Cesar.

Do you have a specific reason for going to Genova? In general, it would be easier if you picked another route to Rome from Switzerland, and maybe take the train instead of driving.

If you have specific reasons for spending six days in Switzerland and dividing the time in 2 locations, great. But traveling with young kids, maybe I would spend one more day in Paris, the spend 4 days in Switzerland in one location, and then head to Italy -- with maybe 2 or 3 nights on Lago Maggiore, then 1 or 2 nights in perhaps Bologna (or Ferrara?) then 4 nights in Rome.

If you must go to Genova for personal reasons, and you must drive, how much time do you want to spend in Rome? It's more than a full day's drive to
Rome, so you might not have time for more than 1 stop. If you are not carrying too much luggage, consider taking the train from Genova to Pisa, staying there for 1 night or 2 (you can also visit Lucca), and then continuing on by train to Rome.

Be careful driving into Genova that you understand the traffic and parking restrictions regarding ZTLs and "area blu" (or other colors)

Take trains to and from the BO. THREE days in Zermatt? WHY?

Should we buy a travel pass in Switzerland? If so, which one?>

If going to two different areas and also to the Italian border and from Geneva to Interlaken and above yes the Swiss Pass could be a really sweet deal- look at Swiss Flexipass + half-off Half-Fare Card in conjunction with it. For a look at Swiss trains and passes check www.swisstravelsystem.com; www.budgeteuropetravel.com and www.ricksteves.com.

Thank you all for your responses!

@sandarlist
No personal reason to go to Genova. Actually, we would like to know Cinque Terre. I really prefer driving when possible. I enjoy the freedom of stopping whenever and wherever I want. This is probably because in Argentina we don't have very good public transportation and we are used to driving.

We already know Paris and Rome, so probably instead of 3 days we could stay only 2 in Paris and stay longer in other destination. The same for Rome, it's just our departure city this time and we don't need to stay more than one night (I know they are both beautiful cities, but we really want to know new places).

Lucca and Tuscany seems like a perfect road trip. And thank you for the Genova advice, I didn't know that.

@Dukey1
Actually, my mistake, it's not Zermatt but Saas Fee. My wife really wants to see the Matternhorn. There is nothing I can do to convince her not to
Saas Fee seems like a really cool place and it's realy near Zermatt.

@PalenQ
Thanks for the advice. Could you be more specific on why those passes? I cant' quite calculate the costs vs other passes.

Thanks for the advice. Could you be more specific on why those passes? I cant' quite calculate the costs vs other passes.>

www.sbb.ch the Swiss railways official site has fares for most trains - what other passes are you considering> No Eurailpass would be very good- will come back when I have more time - www.budgeteuropetravel.com (If you want to call someone who can tell you call Byron here - I've bought passes from him for years and he will answer any questions with no sales pitch IME) and www.ricksteves.com as I mentioned before have good descriptions of each type of pass. I think you could not go wrong with a 3-day Swiss Flexipass + a half-off Half-Fare Card you can buy with it - again explained on those sites.

Cheers!

Thanks @palenq

Do you know if train from Paris to BO is included?

One question remains and that is which city in italy (near Milan) is best to get off the train and rent a car.

Once again, thank you!

Take trains to and from Zermatt, resp a bus from Visp to Saas Fee. THREE days in the BO? WHY?
Zermatt and Saas Fee are both around the highest peaks and the most scenic glaciers of Switzerland. The highest gondola resp rope railway stations are there too:
Kleinmatterhorn (called Matterhorn Paradise by English speaking people) at an altitude of 3883 metres,
Mittelallalin with it's famous revolving panoramic restaurant at 3547 metres,
both in the middle of glaciers.
Aletsch Glacier, the longest glacier of Europe, isn't far away too.
The most scenic itinerary from Zermatt/Saas Fee to Genoa goes via Sion (medieval city center with castle and cathedral with the oldest playable organ of the world) - Martigny (roman theatre and fine museums) http://www.martigny.com/en/art-culture-switzerland - Aosta (charming medieval city with tons of roman monuments) - Aosta Valley castles http://www.lovevda.it/es/cultura- Ivrea - Turin (underrated first capital of the former kingdom of Italy, with all kinds of palaces, museums and churches) - Asti - Genoa.
Genoa has a very interesting Museo del Mare, a fine aquarium, many old palaces, pedestrian sea side promenades up to Nervi..... http://www.visitgenoa.it/es/homepage

How to reach the Swiss Alps by train from Paris without wasting a whole day:
Day 1: Paris dp 17.57 - Lausanne ar 21.37, sleep close to the railway station
Day 2: Lausanne dp 8.21 - Zermatt ar 11.13, resp Saas Fee ar 11.04, change at Visp
or
Day 1: Paris dp 18.22 - Olten ar 22.00, sleep close to the railway station
Day 2: Olten dp 8.29 - Zermatt ar 11.13, resp Saas Fee ar 11.04, change at Berne and Visp

To find a hotel near a station, you can search the station name on booking.com, a site known for it's guest reviews.

Thanks @neckervd

So you think the BO is not worth 3 days?

Great advice for the route to Genoa. As I would like to drive I still need to figure out where to drop off the train from Zermatt and rent a car in Italy. Any recomendations?

Even if you only spend one night in Rome, I don't think you have time to take a scenic route through the val d'Aosta, visit Turin and Genova (and possibly le Cinque Terre) in the time you have left.

I am really NOT any kind of expert on Swiss train routes, but I would think that from Zermatt, the logical thing to do is take a train to Milan and pick up a train there -- although if you want to see Genova, it might be much simpler to switch trains in Milan for Genova and spend the night -- then rent the car later in Genova.

If you want to stop to see le Cinque Terre on your way to Tuscany, you do best to go very very early in the morning, or very very late in the day, or go to La Spezia to park and take the train back a few stops to visit le Cinque Terre. With 6 year old twins, you might have more fun if you drive from Milan to Sestri Levante (skipping Genoa) and simply spend a night or two there, visiting le Cinque Terre as a day trip.

The Tuscan coastal road is not particularly scenic, so once you are past Pisa, consider driving via San Gimignano, Siena, Montalcino/Montepuliciano, Orvieto on your way to Rome. You could even consider dropping off the car in Orvieto to avoid the hassle of driving into Rome.

If you are only spending 6 days in Italy, the road trip that I just outlined has you zooming through some very lovely parts of Italy with no time to slow down and enjoy it. Driving quickly through scenic Tuscany with small children is particularly inadvisable if either of them is prone to motion sickness.

Again, were it me, I might take a train from Zermatt to Bologna or Florence, then pick up a car, then visit Tuscany. If you pick up the car in Bologna, do not drive it Florence. Skip Florence and go directly to rural Tuscany.

But if you want to see the Mediterranean, get to Italy a bit earlier if at all possible, or take a more direct route to Rome following le Cinque Terre.

sorry for my typo above: I meant to write that you might take a train from Zermatt to Milan and pick up a car in Milan (or switch in Milan to another train for Genova).

@sandralist thank you very much. We are evaluating more days in Italy and less or nothing at all in Zermatt/ Saas Fee.
Too muchh to see and so litlle time!

.... in this case you may check a direct Paris CDG - Genoa flight (airfrance) for about 60 EUR/pax

We still want to go to BO for three days. We are thinking of skipping Saas Fee/Zermatt only.

So here is the final (for now) itinerary:

- Paris 3 days
- Bernese Oberland 4 days
- Italian Riviera 4 days
- Toscana 3 days
- Rome 1 day.

Any suggestions / comments are more than welcome

I also gave my comments in my posts above. Nothing changed in Swiss geography in the mean time

Consider Sestri Levante for your location on the Italian Riviera. With kids it can be optimal. Be aware that it is extremely difficult to park when you go sightseeing along the coast. If you want to visit someplace like Portofino, it is easiest to take the train to Santa Margherita Ligure and go by boat to Portofino.

If you stay in Sestri Levante and have a car, consider a trip inland to Sarzana (and then skip Lucca, which is out of your way anyway).

Don't plan too much rural driving without a break in Toscana if either of your kids is easily car sick.

Do you know if train from Paris to BO is included?>

Not on a Swiss Pass but if you train to Basel then you can use your pass to go onto anywhere in Switzerland - the Swiss Transfer Ticket + half-off Half-Fare Pass could be your best deal - for what this details check www.budgeteuropetravel.com or www.raileurope.com for it - briefly the Swiss Transfer Ticket allows you one trip from any border station or airport to any place in Switzerland and then a trip from that place to any border station or airport - thus you can use it to go to Domodossola, a border station for this purpose and in between with the Half-Off Card that you can buy for half-price only in conjunction with the Swiss Transfer Card would give you 50% off everything that moves in the Jungfrau area - even on the Jungfraujoch train 50% whereas a Swiss Pass gives you only 25%.

OOPS - got the Swiss Transfer Card post I make above mixed up - was meant for another Swiss post that was going from Geneva to Italy.

In OPs case a Swiss Flexipass + half-off Half-Fare Card may be the best deal since they are going to two different spots in Switzerland.