Paris Sensitive Question
 

I'm looking at appartments in Paris for a break next spring. I really like the area around Notre Damme but have only visited it once in the middle of the day. I'd like to stay there but a friend of mine mentioned that the Marais(which I loved)is Paris's gay quarter. I'm just concerned that my middle aged husband and me might end up in a bar or restaurant and look around and feel like we were the odd ones out. This must really sound offensive and I don't mean it to. I actually find the thought of two middle aged old farts in their slacks amidst all this scene very amusing but I'm not so sure it would work as a break for us. Can Fodorites shead any light on this? What are your recomendations? Thanks.

Can't you just walk back out again?

If that would happen, you can always go to another bar. It is not like you will be tied to your chairs.

Just because an area might be all gay or all young or racially mixed, does not mean that those inhabitants are the only people that frequent the shops or cafes etc ..
If you go to the Latin Quarter or around the 7th..you are going to find gay people, people of color, etc.
Paris is a lovely city of people of all sorts..old farts come in all colors and sexual types..have you never seen a couple of old gay farts? lol...
Don't think about it..just enjoy yourself..

Do you actually mean staying ON the island of Ile de la Cite (where ND is located) or on one of the opposite river banks? You could be near Notre Dame and also be in the 5th (aka Latin Quarter) or 6th (aka St Germain)if you were on the Left Bank instead of the Right.

While Notre Dame may administratively located in the 4th arrondissement(aka the Marais) I would say you will not notice any of what you are talking about around there. The area you are thinking of is on the Right Bank.

Hi B,

>I'm just concerned that my middle aged husband and me might end up in a bar or restaurant and look around and feel like we were the odd ones out.<

There's nothing anyone can do to help you with that. :)

You will be in a foreign country.

You will be the odd ones out in any place that is not a tourist haven.

Where, exactly, are you looking?

((I))

People say that because there are some gay bars there and maybe more than in some other areas for residents. People say that about Dupont Circle in Wash DC where I live, and it is true to some extent, but I think you are envisioning some cities where there really is an area that is very high-density gay residents and businesses, and I wouldn't choose to stay in those areas myself. A lot of the establishments might not be the ambience you are seeking. I'm thinking of some places like certain parts of West Hollywood in Los Angeles or some parts of San Francisco. However, it is nothing like that in Paris or most cities when people talk about gay areas. I actually find it annoying when someone inevitably pops up to say that in almost any post on the US forum where someone talks about staying around Dupont Circle in DC--warning them about that. I don't even think about it when I'm in that area. It is really a non-issue unless you are a very very sheltered and conservative person who is going to get violent or freak out if you even see someone you think is gay or obviously is gay (and it is obvious sometimes, especially when a couple).

The Marais is NOT all gay as you might have interpreted one of the above posts to say. And is isn't like some gay areas of other cities (eg, Castro District of San Francisco), as you may have been thinking when someone tells you it is the "gay quarter".

Having said all this, what does the Marais have to do with you staying in an apt. around Notre Dame? That isn't the Marais. I guess it depends how close to Notre Dame you mean.

If it helps, I believe it would not be unreasonable to say that the closer you are to the intersection of rue Sainte Croix de la Bretonnerie and rue Vieille du Temple, the higher the percentage of the gay clientele in most establishments.

1. "The Marais (which I loved) is Paris's gay quarter".

So how did you love it then, if you fear it now?

2. FWIW: The hip gay scene has lately moved North in the Marais - at least 15-20 minutes' walk north of the river.

Christina:

Maybe off Buzzy's topic, but...

About 15 years ago, when I probably first could have been described as middle-aged, I spent a couple of days in a hotel near Dupont Circle, quite unaware (and remaining so till just this minute) of its reputation. I didn't notice any homosexual bars - but then I don't think I ever do anywhere. Maybe there's a lesson there for Buzzy, but maybe the area's changed.

But what really threw me was the near-constant presence of helicopters with powerful searchlights. At the time, remembering Washington's high crime rate, I assumed this was an anti-street violence measure to protect (and reassure) us tourists and the legislative community from your normal muggers.

Did I misinterpret the point of all those helicopters?

If you're blocked in there with nowhere to run, I'm sure that two middle-aged old farts in slacks can join in on the fun and dance the "bump" (while blowing on their whistles) with the best of them.

I don't know exactly what you might be afraid of by wandering into a gay bar, but 1) you will not be mocked for being there, and 2) it is extremely unlikely you will witness any scenes that offend your sensibilities.

It really isn't "territorially" gay: there isn't the defensive need for it, shall we say.

<i>Some</i> bars in particular are obviously focussed on a gay clientele out to pull. The ones you might feel really out of place in are either behind doorbells or so obviously packed with standing drinkers that you can't make a mistake.

Anywhere else is either just very mixed or no-one's going to be particularly bothered about you. Gay-orientated venues are scattered hither and yon in between all the other sorts of businesses, not only in the Marais but in most Paris arrondissements.

My guess is that if you avoid anywhere that the music is too loud for you, you won't feel out of place.

Just take a look around as you enter a bar or restaurant. It's certainly easy enough to see if it's a gay establishment on a quick glance around at the clientele!

No need to avoid the entire Marais :-)

I understand everyone's sensitivity about this question. But, before we beat it to death, let's get back to the real issue: can anyone recommend an apartment or an area in Paris for them? I do think Paris can be a confusing assortment of arrondisements.

Maybe the OP can post some links to apartments they're interested in, and get fodorites' recommendations on their locations.
:)&gt;-

I agree it is helpful to understand the general idea of the arrondisements (they are a spiral going outward and upward in number).

For Buzzy, Why not stay right on Ile St-Louis? It's one of the two islands in the Seine and looks incredibly charming to me.

For future reference, here is Paris' Gaymap (pdf document):

http://tinyurl.com/2x2tyf

Just use the map &quot;the other way around&quot;, so to speak.

P.S. Please don't hold me responsible for &quot;looks&quot; when you check out Paris with the Gaymap in hands ;-)

P.P.S.

sorry, I hit the reply button too fast..

just wanted to add:

Your question does not sound one bit offensive to me.

Don't worry their are plenty of middle aged gay people around.

I stayed in a hotel 1 block east from what I consider to be gay central( a couple of years ago).It was four blocks north of the Hotel de Ville.There was a gay cafe on the corner and it was the place to meet.
You could tell because there were no women and a lot of socializing on the outside at tables.There was no displays of inappropriate or loud behavior.It did not bother me in the least and even my more conservative partner didn't have a problem..
It was interesting because that we may have felt bit of out of place in other areas of the gay world but not Paris.

I just love Paris.The only place I didn't like was <b>between</b> the Chatelet ,Halle and the east Marias where some unruly youths kicked a can at me late one night.

by the way I stayed at a hotel in Indianapolis one time during a transvestite convention and boy was that fun...the Marais is my favorite Arr.have fun

oh Buzzy they won't hurt you or disregard anyone that's not of their sexual orientation. I've worked with them for years-and they are decent sweet people. They call non-gays &quot;breeders&quot;. One time, while in Hershey PA, my innocent son &amp; I (unbe-knowest to us), entered a gay bar.We thought if there's a lot of cars outside, it must be hopping. So we're at the bar and this guy on my right starts up a conversation with sweet-imuscular son of mine and once I realized what was going on, I just let the whole thing play out,cracked up the whole time, &amp; kept the secret from the kid until the end. Point being, they are not wearing name tags or that easy to spot, yet, if a straight person happens in, they are very friendly and won't shrug, rather open-arms welcome. My suggestion, if your already in there, relax, smile and enjoy. It'll be of an adventure more than a threat.

Having been called plenty of names myself from early childhood through the present middle-aged day, I prefer not to call anybody anything, and I certainly would not use the derogatory term, &quot;breeder.&quot;

I can't tell if the original post was a put-on or not but I'll play along. Buzzy, did you know the Marais is also the Jewish area?

Just lose some weight and upgrade your wardrobe and you'll fit right in. ;^)

Much ado about nothing! I stayed over two weeks in the Marais and there are plenty of straight bars and restaurants and straight wealthy people who can afford to live there. Lots of writers, people in fashion, and artists.
This is an area of alot of gays but you don't see them holding hands like in P-Town.

We're staying in the 3rd Arrondisement in January, and I personally sought out an apartment in the Marais. As a resident in LA, near West Hollywood, I'm well aware that the &quot;gay&quot; areas of town offer some of the best dining, shopping, upscale bars, lovely well-kept homes and apartments, etc around. And the crime rates in those areas are lower. As a younger female, I always feel safer in a &quot;gay&quot; neighborhood when walking alone at night, etc.

I think it's quite a positive thing! And gay people- male or female- tend to be among the most sensitive, funny, kind, cultured and fun people I know. I prefer their company over most, quite frankly.

when I lived in Paris, the area right behind Notre Dame was a major gay strolling/pick up area...

Just what the OP wants to know.

I don't know about others, but my husband and I love,love,love the marais. They is nothing wrong with the area benind Notre Dame. In fact I love Notre Dame lit up at night, and the street preformers just add to the ambiance.

The Marais does have some of the most appealing apartments I've seen among Fodors recommendations and on Paris apt sites. But there are many all around central Paris.

You won't have an issue at all with stumbling into a gay bar - the first thing you'll notice is not that they are all men, but that they all seem to be in their 20s and 30s! And if you happen into a cafe that's popular with gay clientele, it may appeal to you anyway, as well as to other straight couples.

If you like antique shops, boutiques, would like to be near to Place des Voges and The Pompidou, close to Notre Dame etc, the Marias would be great. And lots of married couples posting here report staying in Marais apts and loving it.

Thanks for all your replies. I don't have a problem with gay people it's just that I'd like to ensure that there are a lot of neutral places to eat and drink in that area rather than ones dominated by gay culture. Despite our liberal views today I think a lot of &quot;straight&quot; people still feel awkward around multiple displays of affection between gay people at close hand. I'm really relating to my husband here. I think most women do not have a problem at all but straight men do so I'm making allowances for that.

Buzzy, nothing at all amiss in your sentiment. I'm gay and I can tell you that most people I know would not select a hotel or apt surrounded by nothing other than gay bars and cafes - a gay ghetto, as we call it. Nor would I choose a neighborhood or town &quot;unfriendly&quot; to gay people (or unfriendly to any good folks!)

But this is less an issue than it seems. Like New York's Chelsea neighborhood, the Marais is a gay center - and also a center for art, good restaurants, interesting shops, attractive blocks of old houses. The Marais is probably less gay-centric than Chelsea, for that matter.

But for some people it's all a little too much &quot;action&quot;, too much night life (continuing story in NYC is the growing number of night clubs and bars in specific neighborhoods, keeping the streets too noisy too late into the night and provided crowds long into the night.) So that might be an issue more stressful than the demographic of the neighborhood!

Please do not think that all gay people call all straight people &quot;breeders&quot; or that gay people are all &quot;sweet&quot;. That kind of perpetuation of a stereotype serves no one well.

Now I've just read that there is a road somewhere around there nick named Bacteria alley due to the amount of people getting ill having eaten there. I'm beginning to think I've picked the wrong location but when I walked past it before I just loved all those colourful displays of seafood etc in the restaurant windows. It's a shame if people get ill from their visits there.

Who told you that bull?

Buzzy- Seriously, why not stay somewhere else. Up in the 7th maybe?

The gay potential seems a problem, now the food??? I would never go forward with plans that I had so many misgivings about in advance (although I don't believe either to be true myself).

The first post pinged the troll alarm, now it is clanging.
Buzzy dearest, just don't allow your husband to consume any gay seafood. Have you not yet heard from your obviously impeccable sources that this is a major mode by which gays recruit? Be especially cautious if your husband has a wide stance, in which case he should absolutely never wear white trainers while traveling.

And don't let him go near Notre Dame Cathedral at night.

There are all sorts of rumors about every place. &quot;Rumore&quot; in Italian is &quot;noise,&quot; and that's what most rumors (and email alerts about spiders etc) amount to.