"I think most women do not have a problem at all but straight men do"

Well I think it is not "all" men but those who are not secure in their own sexuality who have a problem...hmmm

I am so glad I am not the only one who thinks the OP was some sort of a joke. Every tour book written in the last 30 years labels the Marais a gay district. So, is the OP lazy or is she merely using the post to express her homophobia? Either way, why are good, sensible fodor-folk taking this seriously and endorsing this bigotry?

I think I'm starting to get it now. On another thread Buzzy started she asked about the Via in Publicolis in Rome (the Jewish Quarter). She asked if it was safe to stay there. Now, she asks about the Marais -- the Jewish Quarter in Paris. Why is she attracted to yet repelled by Jewish districts in European cities?

That might be a stretch, but let's see if she asks about Antwerp.

Hey, OP referred to herself and her husband as "two middle aged old farts", so I won't cast stones. I think the median response is: it's not likely to be a problem, but there's no reason you must stay there, with so many other options."

Better to make this first trip in many years and check it out. There are worse things than discovering one was concerned for no reason. It's all part of the discovery - but everyone is entitled (for whatever reason) to decide, "I think I'll like it over there better."

My wife and I stayed at an apartment in the Marais for two weeks and I didn't notice any gays, but I really wasn't looking. How can you recognize one just by looking? And what harm would come to you if you actually met one?

Ask James Dobson. Apparently a lot of harm.

I have read the reference to bacteria alley, and it applied to the Greek restaurants around rue de la Huchette in the Latin Quarter. The idea was that these restaurants have displays of uncooked meat and seafood "ripening" in the windows.

This is not the same area as the Marais; it's on the other side of the Seine but also near Notre Dame.

You're right!! I looked it up. Here's a link to just one of the references:

http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowTopic...de_France.html

Maybe Buffy is right after all.

no, there's none of that in the Marais, displays of uncooked meat or seafood.

Sorry, in the Latin Quarter.

Hey, I keep trying to suggest other neighborhoods here. Mostly because I don't want Buzzy bothering all the nice gay men in the Marais.
:-)

It's a nice thought, Suze, but I think we need to let the nice gay men have a shot at her husband.

What IS the French translation for "Oh, Daddy"?

ok- now that just cracked me up, GaryCA!

<a lot of "straight" people still feel awkward around multiple displays of affection between gay people at close hand. I'm really relating to my husband here.>

Has the husband really ever been to a gay bar? Has the wife? I kind of doubt it! What the heck do they think gay people do in restaurants for gods sake?

Flanner, yes, helicopters with search lights come around frequently in different parts of DC, and they are looking for criminals. They also do the same thing in other major cities, not just in this country either. What of it?

As for the Marais, I think it's the most interesting place to stay in Paris- period.

You know, many of you posters here have been to Europe many times and are familiar with all the parts of the major cities. But there really are people that hear a comments that make them question their choices..

I have a good friend.He is retired from a fine career ,is well read,extremely intelligent,traveled a lot but never been to Paris .When I asked him why ,he said the they wouldn't enjoy a place where the people are so rude...I loL

Just to correct a few points made by earlier posters. This is a genuine post. I don't have the lifestyle and time where I would be bothered to come on here and generate questions for no reason.

So some of you know that the Marais is a gay quarter of Paris and think that I may be lazy because I do not. I think that there many be many parts of the world that you know little about but are you lazy because you don't or is it that you may have been to other places and been busy doing other things? I am just exploring Paris now so am learning about it. This is part of my learning curve. I was in Paris for about 2 hours one afternoon 4 years ago and walked around the area near Notre Damme.

Regarding my other post on the Jewish Ghetto in Rome. I refer to it purely in the way that it is referred to in most guide books and travel sites.If you look at that particular posting you will find that it contains no reference to safety in the Jewish quarter. In fact I am staying there next week.

Another post I created asks questions about safety in Rome generally and was related to comments I have read on sites like Trip Advisor about people being robbed. That post was about general safety and not anything to do with the Jewish quarter.

As another poster suggested I did read the Trip advisor report about a couple of streets being called Bacteria Alley due to people falling ill after eating in the restaurants there. These were the restsaurants that attracted me to the area when I first walked through it. I remember huge fish displays in the windows and the proprieters calling at passers by enticing them to come in. It was all very sumptuous and colourful. This was where I was aiming to go when we went there and partulary bearing in mind the dangers of eating badly prepared or cooked seafood I asked for other people's views and wanted to hear if they had heard of these restarants being labelled as "Bacteria Alley." Try putting in Bacteria Alley Paris into Google and you will se what I mean. Also read the Trip Advisor notes. As someone who knows very little about the area I don't want to make the mistake of eating somewhere and ending up with a bout of food poisoning abroad. I'm sure that's something we'd all want to avoid.

Now to the original issue about the gay quarter. Those that have looked at my other posts will see that we are visiting Rome next week. The main reason bing that my husband as a practising Catholic has wanted to go to the Vatican for most of his life. While he is not anti gay in an agressive way and believes that we should extend Gods love to all he is not going to be comfortable if he is stitting in a bar or restarant with men who are arm in arm etc. I can already feel the wrath of people who want to force the issue and say he is wrong but if a Muslim for instance would not feel comfortable in an envirmonment where women were shoeing cleavage etc then why should it be any different for my husband?

I was merely trying to find out if the area is sedately and respectully gay or ostentatiously so. If it's the latter then as much as I love the environment it would not be fair to my husband if he was feelign uncomfortable and as if her was compromising his deeply held religious views.

Please excuse my spelling above. I posted before I had spell checked.

Buzzy, I live in Paris, and the only time I've ever heard/seen the Marais referred to as the "gay quarter" is in guidebooks or on travel forums. It is one of the most charming, diverse parts of Paris.

As for Bacteria Alley (or anywhere else), I would avoid, no matter how sumptuous the displays, any restaurant in Paris where the owner or waiter is standing outside, trying to lure customers in. The good places just don't have to.

Buzzy
I think your original post was just fine and I understood your intent and concern. Forums are great at taking good intentions and spiraling them way out of control. Any time you ask questions about anything GAY you are setting yourself up for ridicule. Funny how some people who expect open mindedness from others are so terrible at it themselves (and note I said SOME).

Buzzy: We are only trying to help-no defense needed-remember, Paris is an eclectic city, no matter which bar or restaurant we visit, there, even just touring on the streets, your husband will see unusual from small-town-home-people. That's part of the fun. I can tell you, the gays will spot you & hubby as being 'straight', way before yous two do. Hubby will find more shows of affection being displayed in a young-hip,atmosphere bar or restaurant than in a gay bar.Trust me, they are not going to attempt to 'flirt' or pick up your husband. The conversation, should one ensue, will be a lot more interesting and informative in general than in a pub-type place. They like nice places, they dress well, majority are very intellagent, and they fit in any setting, most of the time without being fingered out as gay. So I hope you both lighten up a bit, and just enjoy where you are when your there.

Buzzy, as a gay man, I was totally supportive of you until your last post. I wouldn't want to spend my time in a gay ghetto either. So I thought I understood where you were coming from. However, the use of religion to sanction bigotry doesn't fly. Never has and never will. If your husband isn't going to feel comfortable in a bar or restaurant where men are arm in arm (you call this ostentatiously gay?!), he should stay home. He's likely to see that anywhere in Paris (or Rome or New York for that matter), not just the Marais.

One thing that I think hasn't been mentioned is that IME gays seem to find the best bars and restaurants before the mainstream does.

Is this not true in Paris, also?

((I))

Come on Cimbrone...this line in reference to this discussion is ridiculous.

"However, the use of religion to sanction bigotry doesn't fly. Never has and never will."

That doesn't even make sense here. NOWHERE is Buzzy pushing her or her husbands beliefs on us or are they condemning you as a gay man. I agree with her, while I could care less if a couple of men wander by me arm in arm I WOULD feel uncomfortable in a restaurant/bar with lots of male affection going on (even though I doubt that would really happen very often). If your idea of bigotry is someone honestly asking if what she's heard about a gay part of town is real then you have very thin skin.

Someone being uncomfortable in an environment and trying to avoid it is not called bigotry.

Buzzy, I don't think there's any way your husband can visit Paris without having his sensibilities bruised in SOME way. It's a pretty open city. Not quite like when I was young (the street prostitutes then were VERY aggressive!) But there is lots that may offend. You might be happier elsewhere, perhaps in the country or a small French town.

BTW: Lots of straight men walk arm-in-arm in Paris. Generally, these are older people - one doesn't see it so much among the young.

I've been to many gay bars and restaurants and they don't sit around arm in arm.Rediculous!

"NOWHERE is Buzzy pushing her or her husbands beliefs on us or are they condemning you as a gay man"
Wikevia - this is not what Cimbrone said. Reread the quote. It makes absolute sense.
Post the same OP on the US board about San Francisco or Key West and check the reaction.

Sorry, Wekiva, I stand by my post. Buzzy says her husband is not "anti-gay in an aggressive way." Oh. Okay. He's just anti-gay. Well, in my opinion that's like being anti-black or anti-Jewish. No difference. Except that, sadly, there are still folks who think it's acceptable. It's not.

And I never thought it was bigoted to ask just how gay the Marais is. But being uncomfortable with two men showing affection is bigotry.

OK...we'll agree to diagree. In my book bigotry is complete intolerance. To me being uncomfortable in an environment is different than being condeming of an environment. The idea that if one's uncomfortable around gay people then they are homophobic bigots is false in my opinion. Oh well...at least we all love to travel! :)

Drats...I sure miss the ability to be able to edit your own post to fix misspellings!

Hey C,

>..being uncomfortable with two men showing affection is bigotry. <

I think that you are being somewhat thin-skinned here.

I am uncomfortable with:

Public Displays of Affection

People who express their religious beliefs as if they were the only option

People who wear their pants well below the waist line

People who speak loudly in a foreign language

People who demand that the rest of us accomodate their particular desires to our detriment

People who play their boom boxes very loudly

People who insist on displaying Lee's battle flag

People who talk loudly on cell phones

Am I a religious, racial, ethnic and cultural bigot or just an old fogey?

((I))

Well, Ira, some of your dislikes impinge on your own peace and quiet (cellphones, etc.) Others promote bigotry themselves (Lee's battle flag). And none of them are biologically determined. Nor do they belong to a group that has faced tremendous discrimination.

I agree that we can agree to disagree. But it's definitely something for all of us to think about.

In none of my posts did I suggest that Buzzy and her husband HAD to like gay people or hang around them. I just found her original post somewhat naive and silly. If you don't want to be around them in an establishment, just leave. I does bother me, though, that just the mere sight of them on the streets would be so troubling. How can you live anywhere in the world and insulate yourself to that extent?

GaryCA
Did anyone actually say:
"the mere sight of them on the streets would be so troubling."

I would be bothered by that attitude as well. I certainly don't feel that way and I don't think the OP feels that way either.

But she wonders if she should even stay in a part of town known to have a gay concentration. I don't think she should stay in the Marais with so much anxiety over it.

Hey C,

>And none of them are biologically determined. Nor do they belong to a group that has faced tremendous discrimination.

Ummmm, the boom boxes, the droopy pants, the foreign language ....? :)

((I))

And while we're at it, they should probably avoid the Vatican if gay people would make her man nervous.

That did it. I can't stop laughing.

GaryCA you are my hero. Off to enjoy my day of middle-aged, middle American homemakerness. And laughing. Cute.