What? You mean that most of these people HAVEN'T been to New York?

icthecat: I'mstill trying to picture that..hmmm..bent over head in the car..as one who used to camp all the time and NOT in campgrounds and have used many a tree to "go" behind..I just can't figure out how that would work..hope she took her shoes off!!!!!!

We were laughing about that inevitable conclusion ourselves. Gravity will overcome, and the pants were ankle to ankle directly below.....
Any camper knows to squat well back.

When you're under 50 you do it because it makes you feel free and a bit of a rebel.

When you're over 50 you do it because if you don't attend to this NOW, there's worse to follow.

Well, has the situation improved since this very important travel discussion?

When a guest in a Parisian home, say for coctails and a lengthy dinner, it is considered bad form to use their bathroom. Thus the vision of a businessman etc reliving himself against an outside wall in a residential area can be somewhat understood, if not justified. And no, I don't know why this is a tradition...it is just one of those things you learn when doing business in France. BTW, the French do joke about the American lack of bladder control. They never, ever, leave a meeting for a "break".

Another good reason for not wearing flip flops in Paris. Yuck! I was out for an early morning walk and saw a guy peeing in a flower box at a cafe. Really made mme want to eat there.

I'm aghast! Can it really be true that in France it's considered bad form for a guest to use his host's bathroom?? You were kidding...right?? If so, don't believe I'd be accepting any French invitations to dinner.

Me neither. It's better to pee in a flower bed beside a cafe than use the host's bathroom?? Please!

Diane Johnson's novels about Americans in Paris allude to that same phenomenon of not using a host's bathroom. It really seems most uncomfortable and unpleasant.

If I need to use the bathroom, I ask. If they have a problem with that, they need never invite me over again. Anyone who considers the toilet off-limits to guests should not be receiving guests.

I don't know why French men choose to urinate in public, but it is a widespread habit. However, the prevalence of urine in the streets and on the Métro is very dramatically exaggerated in this thread; it's quite rare to come across it, actually. And judging by the overpowering smells of urine in some areas around tourist landmarks, people from other countries are just as prone to urinate outdoors as are French men.

As for disease, urine is sterile when it comes from a person in normal health, as previously pointed out by others. However, it contains organic compounds that make it a perfect growth medium for some microbes, and so it is not sterile for long once it leaves the body. The smell comes from the waste products of the microbes as they consume the organic ingredients of sterile urine and excrete compounds with vile smells (particularly ammonia).

French men not only urinate outdoors, but they rarely wash their hands after urinating, even in restrooms. And they love to shake hands at every opportunity. This is one reason why I carry hand disinfectant with me most of the time, and I try to avoid shaking hands, although the French are obsessed with it.

I hesitate to tell you this folks; it's their country. When there you play by their rules...period. Heaven forbid you run afoul of their criminal legal code which is based on the novel concept "Guilty until proven Innocent". Now you can learn about all the unwritten rules like I did, the hard way, or check out Polly Platt's French or Foe or Savoir Flair. These books are humorous, a quick read, and will give the magical phrase that turns the average Frenchman into a helpful friend.

Someone said public urination is illgal in Paris. Is that rule only enforced for the non Parisians? I really have seen alot of men peeing in Public. However, they did not appear to be average guys. They looked more like homeless guys. Why not build more free public facilities?

Yes, NYC has its subway and alley urine smells, but if you "google" public urination in paris, you will certainly find more hits. It's noted frequently in guide books and as a European history major, I even learned about it in college. It's not a slam on Paris to openly discuss it, and it does smell.
"...Regulations were made against public urination and defecation, but historian Ann F. La Berge writes,

Nineteenth-century Parisians were in the habit of using any area of the city as a latrine. Urinating and defecating in gutters, on sidewalks, in streets, on buildings, and off bridges into canals and the river were common practice, to the chagrin of many hygienists. In fact, there was little practical alternative when one was away from home, for public conveniences were few. The only mention of public latrines in Paris dates from an 1817 health council report…"

I don't understand you francophiles that get so sensitive about posters just mentioning the widely accepted quirks and notions about the country. Acknowleging the public pissing is kind of funny.

Anthony,

An American. born and bred, told me this joke:

Two acquaintances were using the urinals at the same time. One washed his hands, the other did not. The one who did expressed his shock at the lack of hygiene of the other. The other asked him what college he attended. "Harvard." "At my state school, they taught me to keep my hands out of the way."

Susanteach. Your are so right about some people getting in a snit if any type of perceived negatives are expressed about thier beloved city.

I too, love Paris, but I will acknowledge that not all is perfect there or anywhere else for that matter.

Now, shall we discuss the cat sized rats?

It's important to keep things in perspective. French men do like to urinate in public, for some reason, but creating the impression that the entire city of Paris reeks of urine is hyperbole.

I recall once reading a long travel article on Paris that placed huge emphasis on dogs and their doings on the sidewalks, creating the impression that anyone walking in Paris would slip constantly on doggy do-do. This, too, was exaggeration, and it represented the skewed perspective of only one person.

I find that different people visiting a place will emphasize different things in their reports. One must read many different sources in order to get an unbiased feel for a destination.

Thus, comments like "the stench of dried urine everywhere on the sidewalks," or "dark colored rivulets [of urine]," or "the walls of many buildings are caked up with dried urine" belong to the realm of fantasy, not reality. One might just as well say that people in New York City walk around with guns and that everyone is mugged every day. Or that one can expect to wave hello to the Queen when walking down any ordinary street in London.

I'm quite a hygiene freak and the first to complain when I see anything that endangers it, but I still must admit that it's relatively rare to see people urinating in public in Paris, although I suppose it's probably more common than in some other cities.

The real solution is to stop raising men to behave as if they were stray dogs, and teach them to use toilets like everyone else.

Oakglen,

The idea that in France people are considered guilty until proven innocent is a legend. Widespread in the USA and to some extent in the UK but a legend nevertheless.

Like in any western country, accused people are deemed innocent until proven guilty, and it has been so since 1789, when the declaration of human and citizen rights made it a constitutionnal principle. So,it's not exactly a novelty, and I've no clue why americans and brits believe otherwise.

Someone merely presenting publically an accused as guilty before he has been found so in court and sentenced (say, in a newspaper) can be prosecuted according to the article of the civil code concerning the protection of the presumption of innocence.

So, such a thing would breach civil law, criminal law and constitutionnal rights. In case it wouldn't be enough, it wouldn't fly in the European Court of Human Rights, either and would also contradict the UDHR.

So, please, forget about this urban legend.


I don't think this concept even exist in any country, including tinpot dictartorships (now, tinpot dictartorship might not care much about respecting the law, but it's likely not in the books even there). Besides, such a concept doesn't make any sense. If it existed, you would just have to arrest random persons in the nearest street until you find one who can't prove he didn't commit whatever crime you're investigating. Actually, if you found one person who can't prove what he was doing on, say, december 25, you could sentence him for all the crimes commited on this day.

Here's my mathematical formulation:

Time spent in Paris - 7 nights
Men observed publicly urinating - 2 (one right at the corner of the square where the Bastille monument is, and the other in a garden near St. Eustache church)

Time spent in the rest of the world - somewhat more than 10,000 nights
Men observed publicly urinating - 0

So I can see why people will think that such a practice is more widespread in Paris.

This thread brings to mind an old joke some of you may not have heard...

A Frenchman, recently arrived in the UK, was taken aside by an English acquaintence and informed, gently, that asking an English hostess "Where iz zee pissoir, madame?" was not considered, under English rules of social etiquette, an acceptable way of finding one's way to a bathroom. He was told that asking "Excuse me, where might I wash my hands?" was far more en bonne forme.

The next time the Frenchman arrived by invitation to an English home, the hostess, aware that the man's attendance had required a long car journey, asked brightly "Would you like to wash your hands?" He replied "Zank you, madame, but I 'ave just washed zem against zee tree in your front garden".