PalenQ

GOLDEN PASS UPDATE

The official Golden Pass train now offers Panoramic Cars in both classes, relfecting a move by the Glacier Express which did likewise - previously i believe first-class cars were the only Panoramic ones but i could be wrong.

So if anyone's buying a Swiss pass in first class just to ride in Panoramic Cars, at least on Golden Pass and Glacier Express that is nil.

LLindaC

They have been restoring the castle and its amazing Cathedral in Sion. It's definitely worth visiting!

altamiro

>Swiss passes seem to cover long funiculars, unlike gondolas, which they usually cover 50%

Actually, no.
The Swiss Pass covers every conveyance that connects two TOWNS (or villages or so). W/ other words anything that is really a public transport, anything that is used (or can be used) for commuting to/from workplace etc. - so for example the cable car between Betten station and Bettmeralp.

PalenQ

altamiro - makes sense now.

most gondolas don't connect towns but the Lauterbrunnen-Grutschalp-Murren cable/train does and is thus covered.

ditto Lauterbrunnen-bus-Stechelberg-Gimmelwald-Murren gondola.

thanks for clafifying that - is this something written in stone or just a generality that in fact is so?

thanks

altamiro

>thanks for clafifying that - is this something written in stone

I think it is the condition for the subsidies. Otherwise the company (municipality, etc.) running the cable car has to set prices covering the entire costs, and setting aside at least a buffer for emergencies (natural catastrophes in mountains are a fact of life, a costly one)

PalenqueBob

again thanks a.m.

Linda: Sion is a nice nice place that rarely registers on the average tourists agenda - no doubt because there are so many more fabulous and famous things in Switzerland for the first time tourist.

But it and the Rhone Valley are splendid.

I forgot about the Sion Cathedral!

Actually talking about scenic trains the train line down (and up) the Rhone Valley is great - all the way from Brig to Lake Geneva (aka Lac Leman)

For one thing it's a deep narrow valley most of the way and the rushing green-gray water of the Rhone adds to its charm.

As do the vineyards - certainly one of the densest grapevine carpets in Switzerland.

Though express trains blow through only stopping at key cities like Martigny, Sion, etc. I like to take the local 'omnibus' trains that stop at every little station - some of the sleepy stations are actually surrounded by a swirl of vineyards

and these trains move slow and at points there are vines right out the window - can almost grab some grapes.

Martigny is of course the gateway for one of Switzerland's most scenic trains - the MC Martingy-Chamonix narrow-gauge mountain-climbing train. (Whole route covered by Swiss Pass even French portion - glaciers near Chamonix and a hellacious climb from Rhone Valley all too close to the ledge steeply leaving the valley.

But thanks for reminding me that you too thought Sion nice.

PalenqueBob

Back to terms;

Gondolas, cableways, chairlifts

Gondolas and Aerial Cableways

To me the two terms mean the same but one could be a large vehicle - an aerial cable car could accommodate many more people, who stand up with a few seats around the edges and gondolas may be the 2- or 4-person typically cars that swing along a cable, with many gondolas spaced along the cableway. The cableway moves and the gondola is gripped to it and moves with it.

Thus with gondolas you board in 2s and 4s every few seconds

An aerial cablecar goes less frequent because it takes so many and is much heavier - but still moves gripped to a cable

A thrill is on either one when the vehicle passes under a support pole and makes a grinding noise and there is a slight up and down as the cable goes thru the support post (not sure of the technical aspect of this)

And though most small gondolas go in a steady line and you hop in them while they are slowly moving thru the station, some, like the infamous Mer de Glace gondolas near Chamonix, France that go over the Mer de Glace actually stop while people board and de-board - leaaving you dangling high above europe's largest glacier - an eerie feeling of thinking let's get this dang thing moving!

Anyway doing at least one thrilling gondola or cablecar ride in the Swiss Alps is a must.

My favorite cablecar is the Stechelberg-Gimmelwald one near Lauterbrunnen - this is like going up and down in an airplane!

Favorite gondola in Switzerland is the Murren-Schilthorn one, which is touted as the longest aerial cableway in the world i believe.

LLindaC

You, do, have to "get over the fear" and hop on and up! Two of my favorite chairlift rides were the descent from Alp Languard overlooking St. Moritz and the ascent/descent from Kandersteg to the Oesch....whatever...see.

enzian

Oeschinensee. The funny little chairlift that you ride sideways. But as my kids pointed out, despite the old wooden chairs, the thing moves by modern "high-speed" technology, slowing down while you board, and then speeding up.

PalenqueBob

thanks folks for more lifts to take - especially sideway sitting one and the Kandersteg Valley i have yet to explore, just drooled at it from Kandersteg and often from the train.

enzian

For a real thrill, ride the chairlift from Hohfluh down to Riederalp:

www.riederalp.ch

This puppy drops over a cliff, similar to the ride down from Gimmelwald to Stechelberg, only not as much vertical drop. Still, sitting in a chair and facing that drop, it's pretty exciting.

PalenqueBob

thanks Enzian - a chairlift like that must be far more thrilling than a gondola!

Riederalp is also one place i haven't been as hope to soon and looking forward to this chairlift.

PalenqueBob

Copying another thread where i asked about any Swiss funiculars anyone knew of and delighted to find out so many still running!

Author: PalenqueBob ([email protected])
Date: 09/07/2007, 11:19 am
On another post we were talking about the demise of funiculars in Switzerland and were wondering how many are left.

A funicular is something that runs on tracks but is pulled up by a cableand operates on the principal that there are two equal weight cabins, one on each end of the cable and as one climbs the other descends - an equilibrium or such - gravity or such (i'm not a scientist) helps move one up and the other down - and of course the cable is powered by motors.

Funiculars seem to be biting the dust in favor of aerial cableways - like the Lauterbrunnen-Grutschalp on in the Berner Oberland - the old funicular that ran for decades was decided to be unsafe because of soil settling so a spiffy new aerial cable car has replaced it

In Lausanne the funicular to Ouchy, lakeside, is now part of the town's metro system and a proper train, not funicular.

Ones in Lucerne have stopped running for whoever knows the reason

But Q - what funiculars do you know are still running.

1- the Sierre to Montana (Crans-Montana) one still runs - extremely long and in two stages i think.

2- In Lucerne up to the hilltop hotel/restaurant - is it still running as i think hotel folded its tent?

Sunnegg (?) Zermatt maybe has an underground funicular - or is it a train?

But i really can't think of any other funiculars - must be plenty in towns?

Any you know of?

Author: TuckH
Date: 09/07/2007
We rode the one that goes up San Salvatore above Lake Lugano.
Author: schuler
Date: 09/07/2007
I went up the Stoos funicular last year (near Schwyz) and the Ritom (in Tessin) funicular last month. The latter is one of the steepest I've ever been on.

http://www.bahn-bus-ch.de/bahnen/fpr/index.html

Author: gradyghost
Date: 09/07/2007
Actually there are three in Lugano if you count the funicular from the city centre to the train station.

Author: BTilke
Date: 09/07/2007
In Lugano, there's also a still working funicular to Monte Bre and a funicular to take your from the train station to the "ground" level of the city (and back).
http://www.montebre.ch/index_en.html

Plus when my husband's aunt and uncle lived in the hills outside Bellinzona, they had their own funicular that took them from their garage up to the house. It's still working for the current home owners. There are quite a few funiculars serving private residences in the area.

Author: enzian
Date: 09/07/2007
Sunnegga (in Zermatt) is definitely a funicular---the cars are "stepped" just like the old Lauterbrunnen to Grutschalp one. One track with a split to 2 tracks in the exact middle, where the two cars pass each other. It goes very fast! And since it is underground, it was not a fun ride for me---no views, nothing to see but the tunnel.

Author: Ingo
Date: 09/07/2007
I can think of some others.

- Fribourg, from lower to upper town,
- Bern (Marzili),
- Bern (Gurten, not sure, but it runs on the ground),
- Lac de Bienne, saw one from the boat, running up the vineyards,
- Neuchatel going up to Mt. Chaumont,
- Interlaken Harder Kulm (and what about Heimwehfluh?)
- Upper Engadin Muottas Muragl,
- Zürich Polybahn?

and I believe there are quite some more all over Switzerland ...

Ingo

Author: schuler
Date: 09/07/2007
Here's a map of all operating funiculars in Switzerland.
http://www.funimag.com/suisse/Funimag-Suisse.htm

Author: Albany1624
Date: 09/08/2007
Great website, Schuler. I'm going to print this out and take it with me when I travel on business. I often have a weekend or Sunday when I'm at "loose ends" and looking for something fun to do. My goal: Ride all the Swiss funiculars!

Author: beaupeep
Date: 09/08/2007
There is one in Vevey that goes up to Mont Pélerin - it's a very steep ride and the cars are especially designed for it - they are stepped inside. Great views on the way up too.


Author: PalenqueBob
Date: 09/10/2007
Schuler - merci for that wonderful web site - there are indeed many traditional funiculars running throughout Switzerland. thanks again!

PalenQ

LOTSCHBERG TUNNEL OPENS
Another update on the newly opened Lotschberg Tunnel from Fruitigen to Visp - 22 miles long - though tunnel has indeed opened to freight trains the 30 or so passenger trains to use it daily will only be from December 2007 on.
Thus until then passengers 'have' to take the much more scenic current routing via the much higher up and shorter old Lotschberg Tunnel - and the dramatically scenic line south of the old tunnel when the tracks drop to Brig and the Rhone Valley
Tant pis that after December passenger trains will burrow under all this beauty but they will also gain one hour between Bern and points south like Milan.

PalenQ

UPDAT: GOLDEN PASS VIP SEATS

The ballyhooed and incredibly exciting to me VIP seats on the portion of the Golden Pass scenic Swiss train (Montreux-Zweissimmen)

There are 8 seats per train and in Switzerland the charge is CHF 15 or about $14-15

These seats let you think you are driving the train, kind of

You are perched next to (or above, not sure) the drivers cabin and can see out the front much like you are driving the train.

These seats can of course be very hard to book but always try if in Switzerland they could be available of course. But either reserve thru www.sbb.ch or www.swisstravelsystem.com, if possible if you have a pass - not sure but think so. In the U.S. i asked the folks at BETS (800-441-2387) about these seats and they said yes unless booked weeks in advance they often are sold out. Not sure what they charge but for details call.
I would enjoy further reports by anyone who has ridden in these VIP seats. (First class only i believe)

PalenQ

GOLDEN PASS SEATING CHARTS
The Golden Pass specialty train runs between Lucerne and Interlaken-Ost and Zweisimmen and Montreux, but with two changes of trains mandated by difference in track gauge (width) and though nebulous plans are at some point to add a third rail on the wider-gauge Interlaken-Ost to Zweissimmen portion currently it's all change at Interlaken Ost and Zweisimmen, resulting in three different types of trains and three different seat reservations if doing the whole thing at once

Lucerne-Bruning Pass-Interlaken Ost (East) trains have usually five Golden Pass cars: 1 panoramic car in 1st cl; one 1st class car in 'Retro' style; one car Retro style with both 1st and 2nd class in it; 2 2nd class Retro cars. Plus there may be several other non-Golden Pass train cars attached to the train for local service that has nothing to do with Golden Pass.

INTERLAKEN OST-ZWEISIMMEN

Five cars: Goldenpass Club Car 1st class adjacent to kitchen and bar for service at seat

2 Goldenpass 2nd class cars

2 Goldenpass 1st class cars

Note this section is the least 'dramatic' scenic which may explain the lack of panoramic cars

ZWEISIMMEN-GSTAAD-MONTREUX

This is the classic section of the Golden Pass route (formerly called the Panoramic Express) and includes the most steady Alpine scenery and what to me is the highlight of the whole route - the dramatic descent thru vineyards down to Lake Geneva and Montreux.

8 Montreux Oberland Bahn GoldenPass cars

4 panoramic cars each in 1st and 2nd class thus all cars are panoramic and you can do 2nd class with panoramic now (not before)

the front car, 1st class panoramic includes the 8 Train-Pilot seats described in above post and IMO very worthwhile reserving far in advance to get these unique vantage seats - they are in car #10.

PalenQ

PAN GOTTARDO OBSERVATION CAR
Adding to the many observation cars - special cars with glass domed and extra large windows that ply rails thru the most scenic parts of Switzerland - is the Pan Gottardo Observation Car

The car goes over the St Gotthard rail route Zurich-Lugano - the line marks its 125th anniversary this year and is especially known for its spiral tunnels inside mountains and breathtaking Alpine scenery.
www.sbb.ch for details and possible booking or in U.S. i always recommend BETS 800-441-2387 for their expertise and lower fees.

PalenQ

SWISS PASS PRICES TO RISE?

Talking here about Swiss Pass prices in the U.S. where they are currently about 15-20% cheaper than the exact same pass bought at stations in Switzerland - because i think that unlike most other railpasses whose prices have been adjusted every few weeks it seems - up as the dollar declines, Swiss Passes prices are set in stone apparently until each Dec 31 and then readjusted for the next year.

Thus is suspect to catch up with the sag of the dollar versus Swiss franc the prices may increase significantly

Point - anyone considering using a Swiss Pass (or Swiss Card or Swiss Transfer Ticket) within six months of 12/31/07 can buy the pass before Jan 1 08 and be guaranteed the 2007 price for six months - travel on a flexipass could be as late as 7 months later as long as the one-month validity period is commenced at least six months from issuance.

I don't really know if prices will rise or how much just common sense seems to dictate so and considerable savings could be made by buying before end of year.

Call BETS 800-441-2387 and ask if pass prices will be going up - the price increase by RailEurope, part owned by Swiss railways, is usually made in early November - check to see how much the savings may be and whether it's worth it - keeping in mind that cancelling refund will cost you 15-20% if you don't use it. But will also guarantee against a further erosion of the value of the dollar.

where2

Good advice - I live in the UK but buy my Swiss rail passes from a US company and have them sent to my mom in the US because I save enough to upgrade to first class! I have done this for 2 years now.

PalenQ

SEASONAL MAINTENANCE WORK: PILATUS, SCHILTHORN, TITLUS, JUNGFRAUJOCH CONVEYANCES

Though a little late for this year i've just run across the list of seasonal, maintenance closures for the above conveyances.

Mt Pilatus: cogwheel train to from Alpnachstad stopped operating for a few weeks at the end of November (apparently chairlift from Krens remained open)

Schilthorn: cable way Stechelberg-Gimmelwald-Murren-Schilthorn (called Europe's longest cableway if not the world's) closed Nov 12- Dec 7

Note - the new cableway to Murren via Grutschalp and train from there remains open so Murren can be accessed - have to walk down to Gimmelwald i guess from Murren.

Titlus: cabe car Engleberg-Titlus Nov 12-23

Jungfraujoch cogwheel train only closes if there is a heavy snowfall, otherwise remains open all year

As this time of year is a slow in between season such closures are about annually and also tend to happen in May