Overnight train ideas gratefully received
Aug 21st, 2023, 02:02 AM
#21
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The other problems with Ryanair (and other low cost airlines) is also the add-ons to the price. The free carry on luggage size is now reduced to about the size of a handbag on Ryanair, so you need pre-book and pay for luggage, plus you have to allow for transfer times and costs, 2-3 hours to check in beforehand, etc. so if you add that to the cost of 1 night’s hotel accommodation, the gap in price closes noticeably.
Aug 21st, 2023, 02:44 AM
#22
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For me, at least, another factor is the experience. I think taking the night train is a unique and memorable experience -- I still remember taking a night train with my sister in 1968 from Switzerland to Spain, and again in the 1980s from Germany to Paris. For neither one did we have a private suite (well... of course not!), but I remember the chocolate we shared, the giggling, the reading, the talking, and watching the world roll by. Really so much more memorable than an airport, which could literally be anywhere in the world.
Yeah, I'd pay more for the experience.
s
Yeah, I'd pay more for the experience.
s
Aug 21st, 2023, 02:04 PM
#23
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I've traveled by Ryanair and know all the drawbacks and the extra costs. I myself enjoy train travel and have taken a fair number of overnight trains in my life. When I was young, I traveled in couchette carriages. In the 1980s, some couchette cars had no privacy at all, so you slept in your clothes. They also had no sheets or pillow cases, so I made myself a sleep sack with an attached pillowcase out of an old sheet. (I still have it, and use it for guests who end up sleeping on the sofa when we run out of beds.)
Now that I am old, and less penniless than I was 40 years ago, I get a private compartment, mainly because my husband wouldn't consider a couchette.
However, I really think that an all-luxury overnight train won't find a big enough market to stay afloat.The competition is budget airlines, and most people will choose will not pay hundreds of dollars for a train trip.
Now that I am old, and less penniless than I was 40 years ago, I get a private compartment, mainly because my husband wouldn't consider a couchette.
However, I really think that an all-luxury overnight train won't find a big enough market to stay afloat.The competition is budget airlines, and most people will choose will not pay hundreds of dollars for a train trip.
Aug 21st, 2023, 11:13 PM
#24
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This is a very interesting and helpful thread. I too am at the fortunate stage of life where we can splurge and it is the experience that is important. I am afraid of flying at the best of times, (such a long flight from New Zealand ), therefore another reason to use trains. I have many happy childhood memories of boarding the train in our pyjamas and after a packed supper, snuggling down on the most uncomfortable bunks but with so much thrill. Waking up the next morning to be met by our father who had driven overnight in our mini minor car packed up with our luggage was always exciting. After our holiday we would repeat the whole process for the return journey.
Aug 22nd, 2023, 06:30 AM
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One thing we are saw a month or so when we booked our Air France tickets using "miles" is that many of the options now have a partnership with the rail company. We typically have our final destination as either Bordeaux or somewhere in the south like Toulouse or Montpellier. So for Bordeaux in particular we can connect out of CDG either by plane or train with about the same arrival time at our final destination.
As many here know, France has an enacted a flight ban between cities that have a high-speed rail alternative that makes it possible to travel between the two cities in less than two-and-a-half hours. So I think that the partnerships between the major airlines and the rail systems will help support more low cost train travel and then hopefully some company like Midnight Trains can offer a more premium offering.
Here's a couple of links from May 2023 on the topic:
https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/p...een%20progress.
https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/f...lights-climate
As many here know, France has an enacted a flight ban between cities that have a high-speed rail alternative that makes it possible to travel between the two cities in less than two-and-a-half hours. So I think that the partnerships between the major airlines and the rail systems will help support more low cost train travel and then hopefully some company like Midnight Trains can offer a more premium offering.
Here's a couple of links from May 2023 on the topic:
https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/p...een%20progress.
https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/f...lights-climate
Aug 23rd, 2023, 01:37 AM
#26
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Earlier this year, I wanted to meet a friend in Paris and catch up with some former colleagues who I had not seen since Covid. My dates were flexible, so I started looking at so-called cheap flights and was surprised at the prices regardless of the London airports or the north east. I did a x-check with Eurostar and got a much better deal including the hotel…. Plus I felt great when I got off Paris in Gare du Nord.
Sep 4th, 2023, 11:29 AM
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My husband and I have just returned from our brief trip by NightJet from Le Marche, Italy, to Vienna. As promised I'm reporting back about the experience.
As I said above, this is a temporary route. This train usually travels between Rome and Vienna, but has been rerouted because of track work on the usual route.
In August we always have visiting friends and relatives who come to beautiful Le Marche to relax, and escape the city heat. Our calendar was full this year, so we could only go away for a few days. The trip was a last-minute decision; I reserved the train just two weeks in advance. There were not many places left on the trains, so I had to play around with the dates. This temporary routing ends on the 10th of September.
The NightJet is operated by the ÖBB, the Austrian railway. There are three classes of service: seats, couchettes, and private compartments. The couchettes can sleep either 4 or 6, in bunks, and the private compartments can sleep from 1 to 3. You can rent an entire couchette compartment for privacy.
We reserved an entire couchette compartment for the trip to Vienna, because that was our only option for the dates that worked for us. On the way back, we reserved a private compartment.
Couchette
One advantage of the couchette compartment is that we had two lower bunks, so no one needed to climb a ladder. This was the only advantage. I said in my earlier post that these couchette compartments were furnished with a toilet and sink, but that was a misunderstanding on my part. The website (in Italian) said that these were available, but it meant they were available in the hallway.There were also showers in the hallway.
At night the seats convert into two narrow "beds". The upper bunks are above them. We were in a four-person compartment. I'm not sure how it works with a six-person compartment.
Each person is furnished with a single worn-out sheet, a mini pillow, and a small blanket. There is no way to tuck the sheet in. I wrapped the sheet around me like a hot dog bun, but during the night I often found myself sleeping on the bare seat upholstery.
Each bunk had a night light and a little mesh bag on the wall where you could put things you needed to keep close at hand.
The bed sloped and had a hump in the middle. On my side, there was a metal hook on the wall that kept stabbing me in the back.
There were two bathrooms in the hallway, at each end of the car, but one wasn't working. Despite that, we never had to wait to use the one bathroom. It was clean and had a toilet and small sink. The water was not potable, so I would suggest using bottled water to brush your teeth.
Several bottles of water were provided in the compartment. In the morning, the attendant removed the bedding and turned the beds back into not-very-comfortable seats. A light breakfast was served: a choice of coffee or tea, two bread rolls, butter and jam.
The biggest problem is that the latch to lock the door from the inside was very difficult to close and even more difficult to open. We decided not to lock it, because in an emergency we might be trapped inside. The next day, my husband discovered all his cash, and a pair of sunglasses, were missing. We can't be sure it happened on the train, but that's our suspicion.
The train arrived in Vienna two hours late, so our plans for the morning were shot.
I recommend taking the couchette only if you enjoy wilderness camping. There were several families with small children on the train, and the kids seemed to be thrilled with the adventure.
Reserving an entire couchette compartment for two people costs a little more than a private compartment for two. Unless you really can't deal with a ladder, the private compartment is the hands-down best option.
Private compartment
On the way back, we had a private compartment, and the experience was decidedly better. The seats were comfortable, and when you were ready to turn in, the attendant came and converted the seats into beds. The three seats folded down flat, and a bed was lowered over them. The second bed, a bunk, folded down above that. There was a third bunk bed if you needed that.
Opposite the bunks was a little table, and in the corner, in a little cabinet, there was a washbasin and mirror, along with an electrical outlet (one of two in the compartment).
The door locked and unlocked easily from the inside, and a little electronic key was provided to lock and unlock it from outside.
There were two toilets, one at each end of the hallway, with a washbasin and a decent-sized shower. Both were working, and we never had to wait for a toilet.
There was a ladder to reach the second bunk, and a sort of screen to keep you from falling out of bed. I'm not as agile as I was 20 years ago, but I managed to get the screen attached to a bar above the bed.
The beds were already made up when they folded down, with a tucked-in sheet, a duvet, and a decent pillow. Each bed had a night light and a little pouch to hold belongings. They were quite comfortable, and we slept well.
Each of us got a hospitality bag, with slippers, a washcloth, eye mask, earplugs, and a pen. Plenty of water bottles were provided. We were given a menu to choose our breakfast. You could choose six items. I chose coffee, yogurt, a glass of milk (choice of hot or cold), two rolls (counts as one item), butter, and jam. Other possibilities included cold cuts and cheese.
All in all, pure luxury compared with the couchette compartment. The only criticism I could make is that it was a little crowded in the compartment. Changing in and out of pajamas required that one of us remain seated on the bed, well out of the way of the other.
I packed everything we needed for the night in a little backpack, so we wouldn't have to open our suitcase. I highly recommend this.
The Nightjet website mentions deluxe compartments, with en suite toilet and shower. I don't know if these are available on every route. It was not an option when I booked. Maybe they were already fully booked, or maybe they aren't available on this route.
As I said above, this is a temporary route. This train usually travels between Rome and Vienna, but has been rerouted because of track work on the usual route.
In August we always have visiting friends and relatives who come to beautiful Le Marche to relax, and escape the city heat. Our calendar was full this year, so we could only go away for a few days. The trip was a last-minute decision; I reserved the train just two weeks in advance. There were not many places left on the trains, so I had to play around with the dates. This temporary routing ends on the 10th of September.
The NightJet is operated by the ÖBB, the Austrian railway. There are three classes of service: seats, couchettes, and private compartments. The couchettes can sleep either 4 or 6, in bunks, and the private compartments can sleep from 1 to 3. You can rent an entire couchette compartment for privacy.
We reserved an entire couchette compartment for the trip to Vienna, because that was our only option for the dates that worked for us. On the way back, we reserved a private compartment.
Couchette
One advantage of the couchette compartment is that we had two lower bunks, so no one needed to climb a ladder. This was the only advantage. I said in my earlier post that these couchette compartments were furnished with a toilet and sink, but that was a misunderstanding on my part. The website (in Italian) said that these were available, but it meant they were available in the hallway.There were also showers in the hallway.
At night the seats convert into two narrow "beds". The upper bunks are above them. We were in a four-person compartment. I'm not sure how it works with a six-person compartment.
Each person is furnished with a single worn-out sheet, a mini pillow, and a small blanket. There is no way to tuck the sheet in. I wrapped the sheet around me like a hot dog bun, but during the night I often found myself sleeping on the bare seat upholstery.
Each bunk had a night light and a little mesh bag on the wall where you could put things you needed to keep close at hand.
The bed sloped and had a hump in the middle. On my side, there was a metal hook on the wall that kept stabbing me in the back.
There were two bathrooms in the hallway, at each end of the car, but one wasn't working. Despite that, we never had to wait to use the one bathroom. It was clean and had a toilet and small sink. The water was not potable, so I would suggest using bottled water to brush your teeth.
Several bottles of water were provided in the compartment. In the morning, the attendant removed the bedding and turned the beds back into not-very-comfortable seats. A light breakfast was served: a choice of coffee or tea, two bread rolls, butter and jam.
The biggest problem is that the latch to lock the door from the inside was very difficult to close and even more difficult to open. We decided not to lock it, because in an emergency we might be trapped inside. The next day, my husband discovered all his cash, and a pair of sunglasses, were missing. We can't be sure it happened on the train, but that's our suspicion.
The train arrived in Vienna two hours late, so our plans for the morning were shot.
I recommend taking the couchette only if you enjoy wilderness camping. There were several families with small children on the train, and the kids seemed to be thrilled with the adventure.
Reserving an entire couchette compartment for two people costs a little more than a private compartment for two. Unless you really can't deal with a ladder, the private compartment is the hands-down best option.
Private compartment
On the way back, we had a private compartment, and the experience was decidedly better. The seats were comfortable, and when you were ready to turn in, the attendant came and converted the seats into beds. The three seats folded down flat, and a bed was lowered over them. The second bed, a bunk, folded down above that. There was a third bunk bed if you needed that.
Opposite the bunks was a little table, and in the corner, in a little cabinet, there was a washbasin and mirror, along with an electrical outlet (one of two in the compartment).
The door locked and unlocked easily from the inside, and a little electronic key was provided to lock and unlock it from outside.
There were two toilets, one at each end of the hallway, with a washbasin and a decent-sized shower. Both were working, and we never had to wait for a toilet.
There was a ladder to reach the second bunk, and a sort of screen to keep you from falling out of bed. I'm not as agile as I was 20 years ago, but I managed to get the screen attached to a bar above the bed.
The beds were already made up when they folded down, with a tucked-in sheet, a duvet, and a decent pillow. Each bed had a night light and a little pouch to hold belongings. They were quite comfortable, and we slept well.
Each of us got a hospitality bag, with slippers, a washcloth, eye mask, earplugs, and a pen. Plenty of water bottles were provided. We were given a menu to choose our breakfast. You could choose six items. I chose coffee, yogurt, a glass of milk (choice of hot or cold), two rolls (counts as one item), butter, and jam. Other possibilities included cold cuts and cheese.
All in all, pure luxury compared with the couchette compartment. The only criticism I could make is that it was a little crowded in the compartment. Changing in and out of pajamas required that one of us remain seated on the bed, well out of the way of the other.
I packed everything we needed for the night in a little backpack, so we wouldn't have to open our suitcase. I highly recommend this.
The Nightjet website mentions deluxe compartments, with en suite toilet and shower. I don't know if these are available on every route. It was not an option when I booked. Maybe they were already fully booked, or maybe they aren't available on this route.
Last edited by bvlenci; Sep 4th, 2023 at 11:49 AM.
Sep 5th, 2023, 02:02 AM
#29
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As I said, I used to have a sleep sack that I used for overnight train travel. Actually, I had three, so that my daughters and I each had one. I only have one now, and we don't travel enough now to acquire more sleep sacks.
Sep 5th, 2023, 06:49 PM
#30
Photo of six berth couchette here: https://www.seat61.com/european-trai...htm#-Overnight
Sep 6th, 2023, 07:26 AM
#32
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Photo of six berth couchette here: https://www.seat61.com/european-train-travel.htm
vernight
vernightI was just wondering if the second berth was much lower in a six-berth compartment, and if it was still possible to sit beneath it, and, if not, could it be raised to allow seating on the bottom berth.
Sep 6th, 2023, 10:28 AM
#33
If you click on the link in page I posted you get more detailed info. Specifically:
"On many routes you get a choice of a couchette in a 6-berth compartment or a 4-berth compartment. The compartments are identical, but in 4-berth compartments the top two bunks remain folded away and the middle bunks are folded out in their alternative slightly higher position."
"On many routes you get a choice of a couchette in a 6-berth compartment or a 4-berth compartment. The compartments are identical, but in 4-berth compartments the top two bunks remain folded away and the middle bunks are folded out in their alternative slightly higher position."
Sep 7th, 2023, 05:38 AM
#37
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New overnight train, well back again I should say, Paris - Berlin, starting this winter. OBB Nightjet.
I think as it becomes more popular, and therefore earns the train companies more money they will improve the rolling stock. Currently much of it is quite old, coming from mothballed old night trains.
The private compartments with bathroom always sell out fast.
I think as it becomes more popular, and therefore earns the train companies more money they will improve the rolling stock. Currently much of it is quite old, coming from mothballed old night trains.
The private compartments with bathroom always sell out fast.
Sep 30th, 2023, 05:58 AM
#38
New overnight train, well back again I should say, Paris - Berlin, starting this winter. OBB Nightjet.
I think as it becomes more popular, and therefore earns the train companies more money they will improve the rolling stock. Currently much of it is quite old, coming from mothballed old night trains.
The private compartments with bathroom always sell out fast.
I think as it becomes more popular, and therefore earns the train companies more money they will improve the rolling stock. Currently much of it is quite old, coming from mothballed old night trains.
The private compartments with bathroom always sell out fast.
Oct 4th, 2023, 04:22 AM
#39
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The Nightjet website (part of the OBB or Austrian national railways) is a great place to begin planning for this kind of trip. They are really promoting overnight train travel so Vienna has lots of options and makes for a great base. I did Vienna to Venice and found it be truly magical, waking up in the middle of the night to look out of my window to see alpine villages whizzing by under moonlight. SO much better than flying and a welcome return to slow travel!
