Most halfway decent enotecas have a list of wines available by the glass - or indeed by part-bottle, as in this case - and any remaining wine will eventually be sold that way! Or perhaps be given, to get rid of it before it spoils, to someone asking simply for "wine".

Can be a good way to get a red that's had sufficient time to breathe - one of the reasons why you'll see the staff reach for such a bottle if having a drink themselves...

Peter

From my experience, the opened wine then becomes a wine that can be served by the glass, which many times gives regulars a special treat. Always ask what wine they have by the glass as you may be surprised at the offer of something not typically on the wine list.

That's good info, thanks!

<i>"What happens to the other half of the bottle of wine?"</i>

In kwren's case, she drank it, which is not uncommon. If you get a great bottle and you're loving the experience, who cares that your original plan was to only have a 1/2 liter. Drink up and enjoy. In Italy, good wine is delightfully affordable. My favorite Paolo Bea Sagrantino was $175 on a popular NYC restaurant's wine list. In Rome, I found the exact same bottle for €45.

<i>"Do they sell it to the people who've asked for a half-bottle?</i>

They certainly sell it and that's all that matters. The turnover in bottles is quite frequent. Half-bottle, 1/4 liter, single glass, it doesn't matter. The wine gets sold. Italy is a wine drinking country. <i>Enoteche</i> and restaurants that sell great wine by the glass keep track of their "open" inventory. That's part of the waiter's job. If a bottle or two or three is open at closing time, the staff will often be treated to an end of the day treat, depending on how much is left. 95% of red wine can last open (re-corked properly) for three days. I can assure you no one is throwing good wine down the drain because too many bottles are in circulation at once.

I don't regret finishing off the bottle , but I'm glad to know how it works now.

kwren-

Many Fodorites (myself included) don't take kindly to someone who throws Ugly-American-isms about with abandon. And if the unwarranted aspersions are cast upon purveyors/servers of Italian food or wines, there may be rumors of an angry mob forming.

You stumbled over this in your original post. Recognize these?

<i>'don't really believe it in any case - I feel sure that he would have had a different line for that'</i>

<i>'if he was just trying to get more money out of us by not bringing what we ordered'</i>

<i>'which obviously worked!'</i>

<i>'waiter gave us an entire bottle of wine when we only ordered 1/2 liter and when I tried to say that we only wanted what we ordered <u>he responded in Italian</u>.'</i>

Your words. Therein lies the...well, you know. You rubbed some people the wrong way with what you wrote. Lesson here is that it's better to simply ask the question, not make snarky accusations, if you're unfamiliar with the customs of the country you're in. (As for your last comment above, I know it's terribly rude of me, sorry, but I just have to say <i>duh-uh, you were in Italy after all</i>. My words. Well actually, it's something my children would say if I made a similar comment.)

Anyway, glad you had a wonderful trip!

Rumors of an angry mob? I'd say the angry mob is alive and well.

Julia - I certainly didn't mean he should have responded in English. Duh (to use your word), I was in Italy after all. I meant I didn't understand him. That was clear from what I wrote, even if you did misquote me. Whether you use my words or your personal version of my words, it sounds like I stated a fact and you made the snarky accusation.

My other lines? I was wrong. At the time, I didn't believe that we would only be charged only for what we drank, but after the helpful responses of this thread, I do believe it now. My bad.

And why do you think I'm American? Do you assume anything you interpret in a negative light is American? Maybe YOU are offending people right now.

How about this...my next new thread will be about the weather or what to pack!

Why don't we all agree to disagree about me and leave it at that.

Nope. Quoted exactly, word for word, from your post. Cut-and-paste. Not my personal version of your words. Your personal version. <i>'waiter gave us an entire bottle of wine when we only ordered 1/2 liter and when I tried to say that we only wanted what we ordered he responded in Italian.'</i> Check it out. (kwren on Jul 11, 11 at 2:33am) (Also cut-and-paste)

Well, aren't you American? I apologize if that offends you. You made the negative comments, I just read them, no need for me to interpret.

Actually my reference is to the 1958 novel and subsequent 1963 film, the title of which became a kind of shorthand for a particular form of behavior abroad, not an accusation of nationality. Perhaps you're not familiar with it.

I think that some people derive a certain arousal from being a more savvy traveler than others.

While OP might have found a more elaborate way to articulate her <i>questione</i> (thus wasting, horror of horrors, even more of those oh-so-precious <i>minuti</i> in <i>Italia</i, I don't see any <i>ragione</i> to blow this incident totally out of proportion.

There are tons of threads here that deal with scams of this or that kind. Not too surprising that OP was wondering if that "half bottle" was one of them - or if it was normal in Italy. But she even included the option that it was not a scam in her question.
So why make a big deal out of it, and weigh any syllable or comma for or against her - unless you have the desire to let loose your inner Signorina Maniere.

Here's what it says on my computer in my original post (cut and paste):
<<The waiter soon brought us a full bottle. I said, no no, mezzo liter, to which he responded...something in Italian.>>
I think that quite nicely sums up that I didn't expect English and didn't understand his Italian.

What a strange concept that I would be offended by being American, or any other nationality. I'm happy with my nationality of course. Weird.

Along another line, we have been caught up in restaurant scams as Cowboy points out (and thanks Cowboy )

On a trip to France, the waiter added an extra zero to our total. We paid, and then noticed it so I went into the restaurant to remedy the situation. I realized it was a scam when the guy at the bar laughed and said, oops we forgot we are not dealing in old francs anymore (it had been years and years since that conversion) and then everyone in the bar area had a good laugh for as long as it took the guy to cancel the credit card bill and rebill me. No apology, only glee that he had been discovered. I think of how many times that probably happened where people didn't notice.

That was the first time we were aware of people trying to take advantage of us as tourists. I wonder how many we may have missed.

On this vacation, we went to a restaurant near Piazza Navonna, had a nice meal, and when they brought us the credit card slip to sign, we were told service not included, please add it before we put the total into the machine. Now, I know that tips are more often than not included in Italy (yes, I did read up on many things before the trip), but also believe that it's not an absolute, hadn't noticed anything one way or the other on the menu, and we didn't want to create a scene in case it was legit. But wasn't it unusual that they would demand that we add it to the credit card slip instead of telling us it wasn't included and let us leave it on the table? Besides, the waiter and owner were staring at us, so we added a good tip to be done with it, but felt we were possibly being scammed. I forgot about it until Cowboy's post and became curious so decided to look this restaurant up on Tripadvisor. Lo and behold, the reviews were a long line of complaints about just this thing and other scam-type actions at this particular restaurant. We were luckier than many. We actually enjoyed our meal whereas many didn't, on top of the scams.

I've experienced a few others firsthand and heard of others, so yeah, I guess it did occur to me that it might been another scam as Cowboy pointed out. We don't make a big deal of these things at the time, but I do value this forum (usually) so I can ask about it to be a bit more savvy, or educated in the case of my original question, for the future. I would never intentionally offend anyone by my wording, but am going to be more careful in future posts. Can't promise that one won't slip by me from time to time though!

<i>"I think that some people derive a certain arousal from being a more savvy traveler than others."</i>

Laziness, sheer stupidity, or the word game of controversial manipulation on a useful travel board also sends up red flags that have nothing to do with one-upmanship. I'm not accusing the OP. I'm just offering some perspective.

<i>"thus wasting, horror of horrors, even more of those oh-so-precious minuti in Italia"</i>

For many of us, our travel moments are precious. A visit to Italy is just one example. I can understand someone needing immediate assistance and thinking of this board for a quick and smart answer. But to come here while on vacation and write, as Julia suggests, "unwarranted aspersions," makes many of us who really love to travel scratch our heads.

I gave kwren the benefit of the doubt. Like I said, everyone who travels experiences a first time for something. And, frankly, I found the lack of accurate information (and bad advice) in many of the replies (from veteran Fodorites) more appalling than anything kwren wrote. I responded with that in mind.

<i>"I don't see any (reason) to blow this incident totally out of proportion."</i>

Welcome to the internet. People blow things out of proportion every minute because they can.

<i>"There are tons of threads here that deal with scams of this or that kind."</i>

There's a simple way (OK, not that simple for some) to tell if a scam is real or not: learn the language. If you speak a little Italian, it's not so difficult to find out you will "pay for what you drink."

Also, cheap people tend to find a scam in every financial transaction. That's part of the reason why I have no patience for cheap people. If you are handed a full bottle of wine and you drink the full bottle, even though you only ordered a 1/2 liter, WHY ON EARTH WOULD YOU QUESTION BEING CHARGED FOR THE FULL BOTTLE? (I'm not calling the OP cheap. I'm just sayin'.)

Many people like to say there is no such thing as a dumb question. The truth is there are dumb questions. And a dumb question will often get a rise out of people in the same way that people who possess common sense react to people who don't have any.

Had Kwren written her query about Italian wine consumption with more careful thought, she would have received less criticism. Learning about culture differences is a purpose of this board. Words and the way you use them are important to many readers.

I'm optimistic. Kwren said she learned something here. That's a good thing.

<i>Welcome to the internet. People blow things out of proportion every minute because they can.</i>

Very true.
Many people also fart in elevators because they can.
Both does not really help to make bella figura.

LOL Cowboy. Best comment of the thread

Oh NYC, things were starting to go so well with us, but I just knew Julia would rile you up again as soon as I saw her unfortunate post. Please don't go blasting other Fodorites who are being caught in the cross fire. They were nice to give their thoughts. Don't rehash every thing which has already been ripped apart, chewed up and spit out. 51 posts later and you are still unsettled by my very first question. I'm sorry you can't get over it, but I've explained myself over and over. Luckily most people here are more forgiving.

For ALL of us our travel minutes are precious; they might be precious in different ways and we might spend those minutes according to our own needs, but they are precious nonetheless. That's why we are all part of this board and that's what trip reports and questions are all about - learning from each other. There would be no need for Fodors if everyone travelled the same way, became fluent in every foreign language before traveling to a new country, read the same books, watched the same movies, or had a lawyer scan every post for perfect wording written with more careful thought before hitting the submit button. Frankly, that would all be rather boring.

I'm definitely learning something new with every post at this point.

Kwren, your reading public wants to know which restaurant near the Piazza Navona employed this ripoff technique ??

I am happy to say that in 10 days in Rome and Naples, we were not scammed/overcharged/shortchanged once, as far as we know. But we did not chance taxis in Naples - our guidebook said that EVERY taxidriver in Naples is dishonest - a sweeping statement, but I took fright and the metro system is excellent as far as it reaches.

<i>"I just knew Julia would rile you up"</i>

Nothing and nobody on this board could ever "rile me up." But, like julia1, I'm in agreement about "someone who throws Ugly-American-isms about with abandon." (Not that I'm accusing you of doing that.) I don't often pay much attention to usernames (unless you call yourself Thingorjus) but when someone says what I'm thinking and spares me from writing it, I don't mind paying recognition.

<i>"Please don't go blasting other Fodorites...They were nice to give their thoughts."</i>

Popularity contests don't interest me. Nor do nice but empty-headed thoughts. My high school days are long over. Accurate information interests me.

<i>"51 posts later and you are still unsettled by my very first question. I'm sorry you can't get over it"</i>

Unsettled? You clearly don't know me, dear. I got "over it" long before you started posting on Fodor's.

<i>"Luckily most people here are more forgiving."</i>

What's to forgive?

<i>"...or had a lawyer scan every post for perfect wording written with more careful thought before hitting the submit button. Frankly, that would all be rather boring.</i>

What you call boring others might call efficient research or just good writing. Forget the lawyer. How about an editor, or a grade school writing teacher. Words have meaning, dear.

<i>"I'm definitely learning something new with every post at this point.</i>

The sit back and listen. No need to be defensive or take internet criticism personally. I think I said that already.

kwren, here's what it says on my computer in your second post (cut and paste): <i>'waiter gave us an entire bottle of wine when we only ordered 1/2 liter and when I tried to say that we only wanted what we ordered he responded in Italian'.</i> Your words. I agree with you, <i>'that quite nicely sums up'</i>...

And then,
kwren: <i>'What a strange concept that I would be offended by being American, or any other nationality. I'm happy with my nationality of course. Weird.'</i>

??? Hmmm...

Earlier,
kwren: <i>'And why do you think I'm American? Do you assume anything you interpret in a negative light is American? Maybe YOU are offending people right now.'</i>

Sorry, but it appears you did take offense...

In a (misguided) attempt to soothe your ruffled feathers I wrote, <i>'Well, aren't you American? I apologize if that offends you. You made the negative comments, I just read them, no need for me to interpret.'</i>

Actually, I didn't make any assumptions about your nationality, though you made assumptions that I did. I simply referred to your comments as similar to behaviors characterized in the novel and the film cited.

Surely I am not the only one who read your comments as negative complaints about being ripped off...

For example,
tarquin: <i>'Kwren, your reading public wants to know which restaurant near the Piazza Navona employed this ripoff technique ??'</i>

And so it goes...An innocent restaurant tarred by unwarranted aspersions...A good day's work...

hi Tarquin

here are the Tripadvisor reviews for Ecce Bombo

http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowUserR...o.html#REVIEWS

As I said though, we enjoyed our meal there.

I think most travellers are uninformed, or at least not totally informed, when they visit a place. I include myself amongst the uninformed.

So it came as a surprise in Venice when, after ordering a bottle of wine, the waiter said “if you don’t drink it all, we’ll just charge you for what you had”. Most civilised, and most unexpected – because in Aus, that never happens, and I’d never thought to ask anyone if this was a common practice in Italy..

We got taken in by the leather jacket scam in Rome. It’s mentioned in a humorous fashion in the trip report that I wrote – you have to laugh at some of these things off, and it was only 50 euro.

I got ripped off by a taxi driver at Centrale in Rome, and was grumpy for half an hour.

I was conned, but I could not say ripped off, by a “baggage handler” at Centrale, when boatding the Leonardo Express. But it was funny at the time.

I think that we got ripped off – or maybe it was a mistake, or maybe we got it wrong – when we paid with a 50 euro note (or I thought it was a fifty) and got change out of a twenty.

My wife’s handbag was stolen (also in Rome!).

I’ve left totally inadequate tips in Canada and the USA - we don’t tip much in Australia, you see. We’ll eat out tonight, and probably leave about a five dollar tip on a tab that comes to about $75.00.

The thing is, you don’t know what you don’t know. If something is not an issue in your home country, then you are less likely to research it when travelling somewhere else.

Travelling is about encountering different things, and you don’t know what different things you will encounter until you leave home.

As kwren has found out, and which is completely understandable.

Thanks, kwren, it sounds one to avoid, good meal or not.

<i>"If something is not an issue in your home country, then you are less likely to research it when travelling somewhere else.</i>

That's just ridiculous. Not very smart, too.

I'm sure there are many tourists who plan to rent a car in a foreign country and don't study maps, don't research local laws, and think all cars take "regular" gas. They suffer at their own peril as evidenced on this board. But smarter travelers do the research, especially where personal safety is concerned.

People have to eat when they travel. Menus are often in a foreign language, food items are often different from what you buy at home (if you can read the labels), and if you don't know the difference between <i>frizzante</i> and <i>naturale</i>, you may not like your water choice.

Sure, there are plenty of people who just get up and go, and have a perfectly wonderful time (or so they say). Then there are others who prepare, and don't mind the preparation process because, not only does it sweep them away sooner on their travels, it also enriches the experience as they're living it while away from home.