"Or Like in Europe Where Folks Share Tables to Save Space"
Oct 23rd, 2014, 11:20 AM
#43
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"not sure if this is a function of year, region, class or ???? - "
If you're literate enough to know about Nancy Mitford, you won't be shocked at the use of "napkin".
If you're a complete tosser (the standard word for anyone plain ignorant of how fellow-citizens behave) you will be shocked.
If you're under 60 or so, being shocked at the term "napkin" is a strong indicator of being plebeian, uneducated and functionally illiterate. Many poorer, but perfectly sensible older people are also unaware of the word.
If you're literate enough to know about Nancy Mitford, you won't be shocked at the use of "napkin".
If you're a complete tosser (the standard word for anyone plain ignorant of how fellow-citizens behave) you will be shocked.
If you're under 60 or so, being shocked at the term "napkin" is a strong indicator of being plebeian, uneducated and functionally illiterate. Many poorer, but perfectly sensible older people are also unaware of the word.
Oct 23rd, 2014, 12:00 PM
#44
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People use napkins when eating? Wow - maybe that way my shirt won't get food stains all over it?
I'll have to get some napkins or serviettes or paper towels - am learning a lot from this discussion.
I'll have to get some napkins or serviettes or paper towels - am learning a lot from this discussion.
Oct 23rd, 2014, 12:37 PM
#48
Pal, DH came back from his french lesson the other day saying that they had had a session on table manners. Mostly they were the same as ours, however it is bad manners to use your fingers to wipe the bread round your plate, you should manoeuvre it with your fork. You should also leave the bread on the table until the hors d'oeuvres arrive and not scoff it all as soon as it's provided, and don't start to eat until your hostess gives permission.
He didn't say what you should do with your napkin!
He didn't say what you should do with your napkin!
Oct 23rd, 2014, 01:44 PM
#49
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I've seen French household napkins that were better than the TP they used - those little pink one sheet at a time things.
Yes I've had a zillion French family meals and all is true of what your DH was told except IME of at home dining - they do indeed or some uncouth folks do - use their fingers to hold the baguette to wipe up the plate.
And they do use a knife and fork to eat corn on the cob! And utensils for everything else - no finger food in France IME. Sometimes they forgave me for being a clueless Yank what with corn on the cob but I followed scrupulously followed boss mi-mere (grandma) as to when to eat what and except for sweet corn, how!
Yes I've had a zillion French family meals and all is true of what your DH was told except IME of at home dining - they do indeed or some uncouth folks do - use their fingers to hold the baguette to wipe up the plate.
And they do use a knife and fork to eat corn on the cob! And utensils for everything else - no finger food in France IME. Sometimes they forgave me for being a clueless Yank what with corn on the cob but I followed scrupulously followed boss mi-mere (grandma) as to when to eat what and except for sweet corn, how!
Oct 23rd, 2014, 02:03 PM
#50
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littlejane, we have only done it in pubs in Ireland when music is playing and everyone is crowded in. Funny I remember this but I had a cheese plate once and didn't eat some of the stinky cheese and this lady finished my plate for me. Said it was to good to waste. I told her to go right ahead.
Oct 24th, 2014, 12:44 AM
#52
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I remember a TV or radio programme where the wives of French diplomats were learning about English table manners. Of course, they would have been going to posh dinners.
The only thing I remember was the one about tilting the soup bowl away from you when you're finishing the last bit of your soup, the French ladies thought it was a sensible idea.
I'm well over 60 and to me, using a French word where there is an English equivalent is pretentious. At one time, it was considered smart to use French expressions even if one got them wrong.
A good example is the American use of "entree" for main course.
When I spent time in France as a student, a serviette was a briefcase ;-)
The only thing I remember was the one about tilting the soup bowl away from you when you're finishing the last bit of your soup, the French ladies thought it was a sensible idea.
I'm well over 60 and to me, using a French word where there is an English equivalent is pretentious. At one time, it was considered smart to use French expressions even if one got them wrong.
A good example is the American use of "entree" for main course.
When I spent time in France as a student, a serviette was a briefcase ;-)
Oct 24th, 2014, 01:00 AM
#53
I'm well over 60 and to me, using a French word where there is an English equivalent is pretentious. At one time, it was considered smart to use French expressions even if one got them wrong>>
comme ça, peut-etre?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jet29TQv2uA
comme ça, peut-etre?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jet29TQv2uA
Oct 24th, 2014, 09:06 AM
#56
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At one time, it was considered smart to use French expressions even if one got them wrong.
A good example is the American use of "entree" for main course.>
other Brit French terms annhigh would take high dudgeon at being use in Britain no doubt would include:
Bureau de Change instead of Money Change or just Change used in say France
Buffet car on trains (ironically on French trains this is the "le snack bar"!
even the word queue sounds French to me.
A good example is the American use of "entree" for main course.>
other Brit French terms annhigh would take high dudgeon at being use in Britain no doubt would include:
Bureau de Change instead of Money Change or just Change used in say France
Buffet car on trains (ironically on French trains this is the "le snack bar"!
even the word queue sounds French to me.
Oct 24th, 2014, 09:27 AM
#57
off the top of my head, the following french phrases are now part of english:
buffet, matinee [an afternoon theatre performance] queue, entrepreneur, basinet, promenade, envelope, serviette, souvenir.. - I'm sure that there are loads more than that.
[I'm talking about ones where we have accepted the word wholesale rather than bastardising it] [oops, there's another one].
here's another interesting aspect of the cross-over from french to english - mostly our names for animals are "anglo-saxon" but those for the equivalent meat are french:
pig-pork
sheep - mutton
cow - beef
buffet, matinee [an afternoon theatre performance] queue, entrepreneur, basinet, promenade, envelope, serviette, souvenir.. - I'm sure that there are loads more than that.
[I'm talking about ones where we have accepted the word wholesale rather than bastardising it] [oops, there's another one].
here's another interesting aspect of the cross-over from french to english - mostly our names for animals are "anglo-saxon" but those for the equivalent meat are french:
pig-pork
sheep - mutton
cow - beef
Oct 24th, 2014, 11:51 AM
#58
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"civilised folks, such as flanner, don't lick the gravy off the plate or drink tea out of the saucer."
Who uses saucers for tea these days?
Decades ago, we had these sweet Elizabeth David blue and white cups and saucers, because we thought they'd look tres francaises. I think we sometimes use the saucers for giving milk to sickly flannerpeech or stray kittens. Otherwise...
Who uses saucers for tea these days?
Decades ago, we had these sweet Elizabeth David blue and white cups and saucers, because we thought they'd look tres francaises. I think we sometimes use the saucers for giving milk to sickly flannerpeech or stray kittens. Otherwise...
Oct 24th, 2014, 12:36 PM
#59
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Most words ending in tion have the same meaning in French and English, sometimes slightly different spellings and always different pronunciations. Faux amis include déception, disappointment in French and location, renting out in French, there are probably several others I can't think of at the moment. Motion doesn't exist at all in French.
I try not to use French expressions and words when speaking English but some times I can't remember a word in English, not that I am anywhere near fluent in French, most likely a senior moment.
Annig's list is interesting, some haven't "made" it to the States, serviette not at all and queue not used much, it's still in or on line, depending on where you live in the States.
Back to the original post, I remeber sharing tables in German beer halls and gardens, very occasionally large tables in pubs but that's about it. Tables in French cafés are so close together you might as well be sharing.
I try not to use French expressions and words when speaking English but some times I can't remember a word in English, not that I am anywhere near fluent in French, most likely a senior moment.
Annig's list is interesting, some haven't "made" it to the States, serviette not at all and queue not used much, it's still in or on line, depending on where you live in the States.
Back to the original post, I remeber sharing tables in German beer halls and gardens, very occasionally large tables in pubs but that's about it. Tables in French cafés are so close together you might as well be sharing.
