Blwetorch

I am still figuring out my estimated budget....but the details that I am arriving at, are as below:

*1*. Fight cost to and fro Mumbai for me/ my wife and daughter = *$ 1850*

*2*. Train costs between cities, including Eurail select pass( first class) + other trains = *$ 1875* ( for all 3 of us, 2 adults + one child)

*Note*-: I have not yet included Reservations + any extra costs in Swiss panoramic trains. I would appreciate if someone can come up with the lumpsum cost for this, following my itinerary. We shall travel from London to Bruges and onwards to Amsterdam and Paris in Eurostar , Thalys, etc. From Paris, I shall start utilizing the Eurail Select saver pass for 5 countries( France, Germany, Austria, Switzerland & Italy). I may have to pay extra supplementary costs in Switzerland in scenic trains, besides Reservations. Not sure of this though.

*3*. Schengen Visa + UK Visa fees + Insurance, etc, for all 3 = *$ 475*

_That is a total of *$ 4200/-* till now_.

Kindly help me with calculating the *Daily costs( average)* which shall include: *Lodging*( B& B/small apartments/medium hotels, etc), *Daily food* costs( Lunch+snack+dinner for all 3 of us), *Local transportation* including metros, *Entries* into museums, London eye, excursions like mt. Titlis, Jungfrau, etc.

The above shall give me a good budget figure and shall leave out only the expenditure for souvenirs/ gifts, etc.
Regards

KayF

Hi, you are not having that much time in Switzerland and either place you pick - Lucerne or Lauterbrunnen - will have lots of things to see and do. We've stayed in and enjoyed both but Lauterbrunnen just has something that made it more appealing. It's quite small and beautiful whereas Lucerne is a city, an attactive place, but still a city.

I'm not sure I know what you mean about London airport costs. If you mean the taxes and fees that are added on to your airfare, then London does have very high taxes. If you flew into another city, either in the UK, or in Europe you would pay less in taxes, but then you want to visit London so it's really unavoidable.

All the London airports have public transport available and it's easy and cheap to use unless you have loads of luggage. I would suggest travelling as lightly as possible, considering all your moving about. From Heathrow you have the tube, which is around £4 each into central London and it takes roughly an hour. This is the cheapest way to travel from the airport and it does get very crowded but we have done it numerous times, just do a bit of research so you know what to expect. All details, fares, maps etc on
www.tfl.gov.uk

There are also trains, the Heathrow Express which runs to Paddington and is pricey and the Heathrow Connect, a bit cheaper and more stops. Also taxis (expensive) and car transfers which you can book online and are door-to-door.

I am not as familiar with Rome but there is a train to the airport and we caught a hotel shuttle bus once. We bought tickets on arrival at Rome airport and the little bus dropped about six people at various hotels, ours included. If I went to Rome again I'd get the train.

The airport websites all have details about how to reach the city area.

Good luck with it.
Kay

PalenQ

, I shall start utilizing the Eurail Select saver pass for 5 countries( France, Germany, Austria, Switzerland & Italy). I may have to pay extra supplementary costs in Switzerland in scenic trains, besides Reservations. Not sure of this though.>

It varies on the exact Swiss specialty scenic trains - many such as the Golden Pass, Bernina Express, Heidi Express, etc charge nothing extra or at most a few buck seat reservation charge. Only the Glacier Express, between Zermatt and St Moritz/Davos does charge an imposing supplement of about $35 on top of the pass - but you may find that you are not required to spend a dime extra - most itineraries would not.

Now there are some mountain trains that are not covered by a Eurailpass - like going up to Zermatt from Visp/Brig and back - and into the Jungfrau above Interlaken - though there you do get a 25% discount and do not have to burn a day on a pass to get it.

Thus you will likely not be spending a significant extra amount of Swiss trains with a Eurailpass.

Blwetorch

If I keep an extra day in Paris...will it be possible to visit Amboise( in the Loire valley) and return back by the evening? I would love to experience the quaint churches and the medieval chateaux....may be just drive around and come back, without staying...........so that I can fly to Zurich/ Geneva/Basel the next day.
By the way, I am considering flying to Zurich/ Geneva/ Basel ...anyone one of them, from Paris. There is ofcourse the TGV service, which will take 4 hrs. Considering all the airport related hang-ups like check-in/ security, etc....it may ultimately take the same time and no time may be saved. How is the journey from Paris to Zurich? I expect it will be a scenic journey by train.
Your opinion please.

Blwetorch

My tour planning seems to be crystallizing around 3 legs.
The first leg is London-Brugge-Paris. London remains the most economical European station to fly in from the subcontinent...and so it is good place to start. I have allocated 9 days for this section.

The 2nd leg will involve Zurich or Geneva as the starting point and Lauterbrunnen as the destination in Switzerland( 5 -6 days). This leg also includes Innsbruck, Salzburg( incldg Halstatt), Mittenwald, Munich( incldg Neuschwanstein) and Vienna. I have allocated 14 days for this section.
I would be glad, if someone can help me work out my routing here in this 2nd leg.

The final leg will be Italy...including Venice, Florence, Pisa and Rome. This will be a rather short-changed leg, where I have allocated only 8 days...and then we fly back from Rome.

I am trying to restrict my tour to around 30 -31 days...considering the pace and also ofcourse the budget. Regards.

StCirq

So, now you have 14 destinations in 31 days. It still doesn't work.

Blwetorch

@ StCirq..........I know...but can't really help myself. First time visitors...that too from as far as the sub-continent...can't afford to take it easy.
In any case I have sacrificed a whole lot of my 'must-visit' list...like Berlin, Edinburgh, Prague, Heidelberg, Amsterdam, etc( these itself will make for a great Europe tour).
The truth is that a long and pacy trip is not great news..........one doesn't do justice with the destinations...........but I am hoping, that once we return back and unwind ourselves....we may start relishing the whole thing in leisure.

StCirq

<<we may start relishing the whole thing in leisure.>>

Once you're home and have unwound, my guess is you'll hardly remember much of it except train stations.

I understand the desire, especially coming from so far away, to cram as much in as possible, but just do the math - it's not even possible to do what you've planned.

And FWIW, I traveled to India a few years ago and had a fairly hectic pace myself, but nothing even remotely as fast as trying to see 14 places in 31 days. You simply can't do that from a practical, logistical standpoint. You're just throwing darts at a map, not taking into account times between places and all the myriad times you'll need/want to stop/diverge to see something that captures your fancy, etc.

But I've said enough. Good luck.

Sassafrass

Just my opinion, but, that is really, really short changing Italy. I hate to say it, but I would quickly give up Neuschwanstein, or even Brugge or Vienna, to add a couple more days to Italy. For medieval small town/city, it would be so much easier to add Lucca or Siena or Orvieto to your Italy travels, than to include Brugge.

KayF

I'm not trying to be negative but hoping to be helpful. As others have said, your trip is very rushed.

For example, you lose about a day each time you move cities. So the trip from London to Brugge will lose you a day, then the travel from Brugge to Paris loses a day. So you are back to 7 days for 3 cities. You could rush about Brugge in a day and see quite a bit but London and Paris are huge with an enormous amount of area to cover and things to see.

Do you think you will never have the chance to return? In that case I sympathise and see how you would want to see everything you possibly can. But if there is a chance for another trip, try to cut down on the places you are staying. All the checking in and out of hotels and getting on and off trains and planes really does eat into your time.

Kay

Sassafrass

Even if you never do another trip, or even if you do many, many trips, some places, while interesting or pretty, just aren't worth so much travel time when there are other places closer to your main bases that are just as interesting or historical or beautiful, and getting to them will not eat up so much of your precious time.

I fully appreciate it has much to do with personal interests: that some people would travel a long ways to tour a car factory and others wouldn't walk across the street to it; that some people would travel hours to see a museum that others would pass with a yawn; that some folks will hike every trail while others sit in a cafe and look out at the mountains.

You will never see everything you might like to see. Therefore, unless one thing has such huge appeal to you that you have dreamed about it your whole life or it is your life's passion, it makes for a better trip to use the time seeing things rather than traveling so much from place to place.

Sassafrass

One last bit: St Cirq, as usual, is so right, as is KayF. Their advice is absolutely spot on.

PalenQ

Less is often more, I agree!

Blwetorch

Thanks a lot friends...'Less is More'...a dictum made famous by the American Architect Mies van der Rohe.....a master that he was!
At the moment, for me it is still 'More is Less'...you guys are inspiring me....let's see, how I can ultimately manage to cut some more corners.

capxxx

Here is an itinerary for your second two legs to play around with. I couldn't fit everything in that you want, but it gives you an idea of what might be done.

Geneva, 3 nights
Drive around the lake to Lauterbrennan (why Lauterbrennan?), 1 night
Drive via Lucern to Zurich, 2 nights.

Innsbruck 2 nights
Drive to Fussen (Neuschwanstein Castle) then via Mittenwald (why Mittenwald?), arrive Munich that evening.
Munich 3 nights.
to Salzberg (incl Hallstat) 3 nights

(Skip Vienna, its just to far away.)

Venice 3 nights
Florence 3 nights (day trip to Pisa)
Rome 2 nights (significant shortchange), fly home.

nspotz

I think most people would consider Pisa an unneceassry stop, especially since you have such limited time. Not much to see there, except the leaning tower. 8 days is not enough to see the parts of Italy you want to so i would take a valuable day away from Pisa and add it to Rome, Florence or Venice.

nspotz

For Italy I would do:

Venice (2 nights)
Florence, with a day trip to surrounding Tuscany. Maybe a wine tasting tour.(3 nights)
Rome (3 nights)

This way you get a small sampling of Italy.

StCirq

I can't imagine including 3 nights in Geneva on such a trip. Or any trip, for that matter.

Blwetorch

@ capxxx and @ nspotz.........thanks for the effort.
Zurich to Fuessen.....on to Mittenwald.....then to Innsbruck > Salzburg > Hallstat.
I am thinking about giving Munich the miss altogether. I am just trying to cherry-pick the better destinations in the region and hence Mittenwald.
I included Vienna, because I wanted to see the Danube...if not anything else.
I liked your idea, with the exception of the Switzerland portion. You are suggesting Geneva(3)and Zurich (2). But I would like to spend this time in the quieter Bernese Oberland area. I am more interested in the smaller towns and villages, where the landscape/ scenery truly plays up. Even Lucerne is OK.........For Italy, I would like to add another day to Rome, from somewhere. Pisa is part of an architect's psyche. We are taught abt Pisa in our schools/ colleges, hence can't be missed. Your opinion plz. Regards

capxxx

Well, my idea was to give you something to start with, with based on your list, not on my preferences.

I also prefer the smaller towns to the big cities: Consider skipping Geneva and Innsbruck, Munich, and add Vienna and a couple more days in Italy. Lucerne is a very pretty small city on the lake, near Zurich and I remember Weggis (other side of the lake) as very scenic too. (I haven't been to Bernese Oberland. )

If you are an architect, read Kings ``Brunilleschi's Dome'' before visiting Florence. Besides the leaning tower, the Baptistry and the Dom in Pisa are also worth visiting; the arcaded university area is nice, too.