One Traveler's Opinion: Information Overload
Mar 17th, 2004, 06:45 AM
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One Traveler's Opinion: Information Overload
An otherwise perfectly wonderful hotel in London will not be getting our business in May. The reason? They have Edward Hopper prints in the breakfast room. My wife made the discovery while reading one of the roughly 75 London hotel guides available at our local Borders bookstore. She reasons that Edward Hopper prints are symptomatic of a deeper problem. A hotel that forces you to gaze at a reproduction of "Nighthawks" while buttering your morning croissant probably also plays atonal music at the honor bar and offers only Farsi-dubbed Hong Kong kung-fu DVDs in its video library.
Planning a vacation was not always like this. On my first trip to Europe 35 years ago this summer, my sole preparation consisted of the purchase of a dog-eared, second-hand copy of "Europe on $5 a Day" and a hopelessly out-of-date railway timetable. The former book served me adequately on that youthful sojourn, the latter was left behind on a platform in Rotterdam where it doubtlessly caused a succession of young travelers to believe that there was still a 23:30 through train to Munich.
Each vacation since then has cultivated additional planning resources: the purchase of a Fodors Guide, examination of articles clipped from the New York Times, that sort of thing. For years, an instinct for the unusual and the right 'code words' in a description were all we needed to send us to a particular property. We booked the Hotel Quisisana e Ponte Vecchio in Florence one year on the strength of a single mention in the Times, and found ourselves throwing open our window each morning to a stunning view of the Arno and Pitti Palace. In 1977, a one-sentence mention in Travel and Leisure caused us to book a room at a small, out-of-the-way resort in Hawaii. We would return to the Hotel Hana-Maui annually for fifteen years.
The arrival of the internet has been a mixed blessing. Expedia and Orbitz allow pricing to be known to the penny; no longer are there 'rates on request' or a surprise VAT/service/breakfast surcharge. But, what of the hotels themselves? Expedia is in the business of selling rooms and so room descriptions, and even the star ratings, are provided by the properties. All hotels are charming, all rooms spacious and filled with antiques.
Fodors' on-line mini-guides with reader ratings are a godsend, but several evenings ago an interesting-sounding property un-rated by Fodors sent us on a Google search that led us to tripadvisor.com. Now we were confronted with individual reviews that showed an alarming range of opinions. Should we trust the New Yorker who found the rooms cramped and the bathroom 'a converted coat closet', or the traveler from Malaysia who assured us this hotel had earned his perpetual business because of its charm and spaciousness? Reviews posted a week apart describe a hotel's décor as 'dated' and 'freshly renovated.'
Individual hotel web sites offer views of rooms, lobbies and even views from specific rooms, but in planning this trip, those photos have been used to weed out properties with too many swags or frou-frou in the bed chambers, or bathrooms with claw-foot tubs. Conversely, hotels without websites or photos are viewed with suspicion. What are they hiding? Will they not show us their king-bed triple because it is just two double beds pushed together with a tell-tale crease in the bedspread?
Last night, I found myself surrounded by an inch-thick folder filled with printouts of hotel information, and realized I was no closer to finding the right hotel room than I was two weeks ago. If possible, we are further away from that decision because we have ruled out all of the hotels in our price range. Clearly, I'm suffering from information overload.
I still have those yellowing clips from the New York Times. Perhaps it's time to pull them out and see what they have to say.
Planning a vacation was not always like this. On my first trip to Europe 35 years ago this summer, my sole preparation consisted of the purchase of a dog-eared, second-hand copy of "Europe on $5 a Day" and a hopelessly out-of-date railway timetable. The former book served me adequately on that youthful sojourn, the latter was left behind on a platform in Rotterdam where it doubtlessly caused a succession of young travelers to believe that there was still a 23:30 through train to Munich.
Each vacation since then has cultivated additional planning resources: the purchase of a Fodors Guide, examination of articles clipped from the New York Times, that sort of thing. For years, an instinct for the unusual and the right 'code words' in a description were all we needed to send us to a particular property. We booked the Hotel Quisisana e Ponte Vecchio in Florence one year on the strength of a single mention in the Times, and found ourselves throwing open our window each morning to a stunning view of the Arno and Pitti Palace. In 1977, a one-sentence mention in Travel and Leisure caused us to book a room at a small, out-of-the-way resort in Hawaii. We would return to the Hotel Hana-Maui annually for fifteen years.
The arrival of the internet has been a mixed blessing. Expedia and Orbitz allow pricing to be known to the penny; no longer are there 'rates on request' or a surprise VAT/service/breakfast surcharge. But, what of the hotels themselves? Expedia is in the business of selling rooms and so room descriptions, and even the star ratings, are provided by the properties. All hotels are charming, all rooms spacious and filled with antiques.
Fodors' on-line mini-guides with reader ratings are a godsend, but several evenings ago an interesting-sounding property un-rated by Fodors sent us on a Google search that led us to tripadvisor.com. Now we were confronted with individual reviews that showed an alarming range of opinions. Should we trust the New Yorker who found the rooms cramped and the bathroom 'a converted coat closet', or the traveler from Malaysia who assured us this hotel had earned his perpetual business because of its charm and spaciousness? Reviews posted a week apart describe a hotel's décor as 'dated' and 'freshly renovated.'
Individual hotel web sites offer views of rooms, lobbies and even views from specific rooms, but in planning this trip, those photos have been used to weed out properties with too many swags or frou-frou in the bed chambers, or bathrooms with claw-foot tubs. Conversely, hotels without websites or photos are viewed with suspicion. What are they hiding? Will they not show us their king-bed triple because it is just two double beds pushed together with a tell-tale crease in the bedspread?
Last night, I found myself surrounded by an inch-thick folder filled with printouts of hotel information, and realized I was no closer to finding the right hotel room than I was two weeks ago. If possible, we are further away from that decision because we have ruled out all of the hotels in our price range. Clearly, I'm suffering from information overload.
I still have those yellowing clips from the New York Times. Perhaps it's time to pull them out and see what they have to say.
Mar 17th, 2004, 07:06 AM
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How true, how true! I'm off to Capri with my son and daughter next month and had been worrying about our hotel since no one seemed to have stayed there, not even tripadvisor but then my son said "so what, we won't be in the room much", now I feel adventuresome! and will write a review upon my return.
Mar 17th, 2004, 07:09 AM
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In addition to all hotel rooms being spacious and charming, you left out the vendor's insistence that the hotel is close to absolutely everything, even though the city map shows absolutely everything to be scattered over a wide area. (This should prompt a search for hotels located in moveable trailers.....)
I loved your post. Please hearken back to your wedding, an event over which your wife probably also obsessed, but nonetheless she ultimately did make the only important decision: (she said, "I do."
I assure you her madness is completely curable, starting with the first day of your holiday.
Oh, and Edward Hopper prints are a sure sign that the lift doesn't work properly. Guaranteed.
I loved your post. Please hearken back to your wedding, an event over which your wife probably also obsessed, but nonetheless she ultimately did make the only important decision: (she said, "I do."
I assure you her madness is completely curable, starting with the first day of your holiday.
Oh, and Edward Hopper prints are a sure sign that the lift doesn't work properly. Guaranteed.
Mar 17th, 2004, 07:17 AM
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Oh so true, Mr Sanders! I remember our first trip to London, all we were told was to ask for a room on the courtyard, we did and the St James Hotel on Buckingham Gate is forever imprinted in my mind with that view of the flowers in the courtyard.
While I agree with everything you have said, (I usually do, you know) I also want to cheer you on for your refreshing and thoughtful posts. I wish you would post more often
Scarlett
Mar 17th, 2004, 07:32 AM
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Hey Neal,
You've done this to yourself, you know.
Start over again.
Send in a post headed "I am going to xxxx, where should I stay?" and take the first suggestion.
Regain that old sense of adventure.
Even if you are 35 years older and no longer think that sleeping upright on a train is fun.
You've done this to yourself, you know.
Start over again.
Send in a post headed "I am going to xxxx, where should I stay?" and take the first suggestion.
Regain that old sense of adventure.
Even if you are 35 years older and no longer think that sleeping upright on a train is fun.
Mar 17th, 2004, 09:08 AM
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Therealbobbie's son has it right. I don't travel to spend time in a hotel room. I have never spent more than 5 or 10 min looking at a guidebook to choose a place to stay. I have never had any bad experiences at any place I have stayed.
Tripadvisor.com has given me some great tips. In Washington, D.C. we ate at a great restaurant 2 blocks from the White House that has served several Presidents since 1856. The articles on London have provided me a wealth of information on my favorite city.
And, of course, our fellow Fodorites have come up with some great ideas on these boards.
I totally agree with Ira's comment about regaining that sense of adventure.
I am off to Iceland very soon and I am chomping at the bit. Travel is one of the joys of my life.
So, Neal, I would say your old methods worked well for you and led to some great discoveries. Many times in my travels I will not have any plans what to do for the day. I will open my guidebook, pick something out and go.
Enjoy your travels!
Tripadvisor.com has given me some great tips. In Washington, D.C. we ate at a great restaurant 2 blocks from the White House that has served several Presidents since 1856. The articles on London have provided me a wealth of information on my favorite city.
And, of course, our fellow Fodorites have come up with some great ideas on these boards.
I totally agree with Ira's comment about regaining that sense of adventure.
I am off to Iceland very soon and I am chomping at the bit. Travel is one of the joys of my life.
So, Neal, I would say your old methods worked well for you and led to some great discoveries. Many times in my travels I will not have any plans what to do for the day. I will open my guidebook, pick something out and go.
Enjoy your travels!
Mar 17th, 2004, 09:22 AM
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Sue, I should have known that Edward Hopper prints and a non-functioning lift are inextricably linked, and I am grateful to you for calling that oversight to my attention.
Scarlett, most of my posts (and responses to others' posts) have been on the U.S. board because this forthcoming trip will be my first to Europe in over two years. This post has been forming in my heard for the past few days and today's Nor'easter gave me the luxury of time to compose in peace.
Ira, sitting up all night on trains (or sleeping in the baggage car) in order to avoid paying for a hotel is an idea that held a certain appeal in 1969. Today, my aching body demands certain amenities at the end of a day of sightseeing that are best satisfied by a long, hot soaking bath and a snooze in a large bed equipped with duvet and down comforter.
Exactly such a room and bed are available at The Berkeley, where I stayed on my last visit to London. Unfortunately, while the price of a junior suite at the Berkeley has risen by only 15 GBP since that last stay, the dollar has withered in value against the pound, safely ensuring that Room 527 at the Berkeley will be occupied in May by someone toting a passport in a color other than blue.
I shall take under advisement your suggestion that I post a 'tell me where to stay in London' message on this board. With my luck, though, the first response will come from Mr. Hopper's heirs' solicitors.
Scarlett, most of my posts (and responses to others' posts) have been on the U.S. board because this forthcoming trip will be my first to Europe in over two years. This post has been forming in my heard for the past few days and today's Nor'easter gave me the luxury of time to compose in peace.
Ira, sitting up all night on trains (or sleeping in the baggage car) in order to avoid paying for a hotel is an idea that held a certain appeal in 1969. Today, my aching body demands certain amenities at the end of a day of sightseeing that are best satisfied by a long, hot soaking bath and a snooze in a large bed equipped with duvet and down comforter.
Exactly such a room and bed are available at The Berkeley, where I stayed on my last visit to London. Unfortunately, while the price of a junior suite at the Berkeley has risen by only 15 GBP since that last stay, the dollar has withered in value against the pound, safely ensuring that Room 527 at the Berkeley will be occupied in May by someone toting a passport in a color other than blue.
I shall take under advisement your suggestion that I post a 'tell me where to stay in London' message on this board. With my luck, though, the first response will come from Mr. Hopper's heirs' solicitors.
Mar 17th, 2004, 09:43 AM
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So true, but even worse, you have not mentioned the terrible guilt that afflicts us when we <i>don't</i> do all the research we feel we should!
I recently read a piece in the New Yorker that theorized two different types of consumption. In one, we find the item that "will do," and look no further. In the other, we feel we must find the "perfect and ultimate" item, so we must look at every possibility.
I think a lot of travel has slipped into the second category, partly because we are now able to do so much more research because of the internet, but also because travel has become so popular that there is a large market which drives the glut of books, magazines, newspaper articles, etc.
I recently read a piece in the New Yorker that theorized two different types of consumption. In one, we find the item that "will do," and look no further. In the other, we feel we must find the "perfect and ultimate" item, so we must look at every possibility.
I think a lot of travel has slipped into the second category, partly because we are now able to do so much more research because of the internet, but also because travel has become so popular that there is a large market which drives the glut of books, magazines, newspaper articles, etc.
Mar 17th, 2004, 10:28 AM
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Cigalechanta hit the nail on the head. It has led to many great experiences. I never have felt guilty about doing too little research. Every trip I have been on has been just great. There is a book called the Art of Travel where the author states that 50% of traveling is suffering. What nonsense.
Mar 17th, 2004, 10:29 AM
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I respond, by way of topping another recent thread, on which I had coincidentally made a comment apropos of this notion...
http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...p;tid=34482989
http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...p;tid=34482989
Mar 17th, 2004, 10:40 AM
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Have to keep this near the top, Neil's post is just too good to let drop.
I've been asking myself this very question lately: when do we decide that we've got a 'good enough' hotel room?
For example, how do you evaluate the asking price? (As a student, it was easy. You either had the money - or, more often than not, you didn't. )Now we have a little more money than when we were students. We are finding that a little more money breeds a lot more headaches in the decision making department.
As a student, the value-for-money was easily answered. You generally got lousy value, because the innkeeper knew darn well his was the lowest price in town, so he could give you a room even cockroaches would abandon if they had the choice (as a student, my cockroaches seemed to have no more alternatives than I did.)
If you let circumstances or chance decide for you, it's an easy decision. It's living with the decision that can be problematic.
I've been asking myself this very question lately: when do we decide that we've got a 'good enough' hotel room?
For example, how do you evaluate the asking price? (As a student, it was easy. You either had the money - or, more often than not, you didn't. )Now we have a little more money than when we were students. We are finding that a little more money breeds a lot more headaches in the decision making department.
As a student, the value-for-money was easily answered. You generally got lousy value, because the innkeeper knew darn well his was the lowest price in town, so he could give you a room even cockroaches would abandon if they had the choice (as a student, my cockroaches seemed to have no more alternatives than I did.)
If you let circumstances or chance decide for you, it's an easy decision. It's living with the decision that can be problematic.
Mar 18th, 2004, 06:08 AM
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The March 22 issue of Newsweek has an essay by Robert Samuelson titled "The Afflictions of Affluence" which references two recent books "The Paradox of Choice: Why More is Less" by Barry Schwartz and "The Progress Paradox: How Life Gets Better While People Feel Worse" by Gregg Easterbrook.
One comment from Samuelson's essay jumped out at me in respect to this thread: "some choices just don't matter that much".
One comment from Samuelson's essay jumped out at me in respect to this thread: "some choices just don't matter that much".
Mar 18th, 2004, 06:28 AM
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When I am faced with a wide range of contradictory opinions and no way to evaluate which ones I am likely to agree with, I tell myself to find another hotel (or restaurant or whatever.) Since my time and money are limited, I'm not often willing to gamble, though more so on one meal than on a week's stay. However, even a less-than-great hotel is unlikely to turn out to be actually dirty or located next to the landfill site, if I've done any research at all, so the downside is usually not that far down if I do take a chance.
The worst hotel I've ever stayed in was in downtown Los Angeles, in a Best Western, which I came to suspect rented rooms by the hour. I didn't want to touch any of the dirty furnishings, and we left the next morning with a bad case of the willies. I always use that place as my basis of comparison for a "bad" hotel.
There are SO many good hotels out there, we too often here ("here" being fodors.com, a seeming "enabler" for those of us who suffer from OverPlanning Syndrome) focus on finding the "best" hotel in a large city, as if there's only one.
I thank heaven every day that I am well past the age of having to write term papers or book reports these days. How DO the kids winnow down the information?
(I used to use card catalogs and took notes on index cards.) But I disgress.
Jsmith has it, some choices are just not that critical. Neal, perhaps we should start our own fund of peculiar information on hotels. For example, the Hotel Bristol in Vienna, an otherwise "grande dame" hotel, has an endless loop of Strauss waltzes tinnily (?)playing in the background every morning at breakfast. Don't recall any depressing art work though,and the kids said the hot chocolate was very good.
The worst hotel I've ever stayed in was in downtown Los Angeles, in a Best Western, which I came to suspect rented rooms by the hour. I didn't want to touch any of the dirty furnishings, and we left the next morning with a bad case of the willies. I always use that place as my basis of comparison for a "bad" hotel.
There are SO many good hotels out there, we too often here ("here" being fodors.com, a seeming "enabler" for those of us who suffer from OverPlanning Syndrome) focus on finding the "best" hotel in a large city, as if there's only one.
I thank heaven every day that I am well past the age of having to write term papers or book reports these days. How DO the kids winnow down the information?
(I used to use card catalogs and took notes on index cards.) But I disgress.
Jsmith has it, some choices are just not that critical. Neal, perhaps we should start our own fund of peculiar information on hotels. For example, the Hotel Bristol in Vienna, an otherwise "grande dame" hotel, has an endless loop of Strauss waltzes tinnily (?)playing in the background every morning at breakfast. Don't recall any depressing art work though,and the kids said the hot chocolate was very good.
Mar 18th, 2004, 06:39 AM
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Being an art historian, I've rarely found appropriate art in any hotel and/or restaurant. If I judged every place solely on the art, I'd have to stay home. But yes, the morass or opinions can stymie a traveler. Outside of travel, I like to visit epinions when I'm considering a purchase and the same thing is found there - this printer is great; no it's a piece of garbage...sometimes research can only get you so far and then you have to leap. Good luck with your plans!
But yes, the morass or opinions can stymie a traveler. Outside of travel, I like to visit epinions when I'm considering a purchase and the same thing is found there - this printer is great; no it's a piece of garbage...sometimes research can only get you so far and then you have to leap. Good luck with your plans!
Mar 18th, 2004, 08:45 AM
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Elaine, the idea of a central repository of quirky information about travel destinations is positively brilliant. Allow me to offer two in addition to yours: the Broadway Diner at Broadway and 77th Street in New York, for some inexplicable reason, plays a continuous loop of Beethoven's Sonata #1, "Appassionata", which is quote likely the least breakfast-friendly piece of music ever written. And, the otherwise elegant Hotel Tramontano in Sorrento insists on including in its music 'loop' in the lobby, Elvis Presley's 1961 clunker, "Surrender" (which undermines the integrity of "Sorrento", whose melody was stolen for the purpose).
And my thanks to all who chose to append their comments to my essay. It's nice to see such an erudite community in action!
And my thanks to all who chose to append their comments to my essay. It's nice to see such an erudite community in action!
Mar 18th, 2004, 09:19 AM
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Why not just "wing it". We have been touring Europe together for 17 years, the last 10 solo, no tour, on bikes. We make few reservations, the 1st and last night, but in between it's wherever we got to that day and after cycling for 30 miles you're not to choosy. By the by, I'm 66 my wife 57.
Quit buttering your croissants, your heart will thank you.
Quit buttering your croissants, your heart will thank you.
