travelgirl2

You're giving me the bug to go back to London. It's such a fabulous place. Glad you enjoyed your trip.

MissPrism

You might be interested in this
http://sylvia.photoblog.me.uk/p43127598.html

It's an extract from Paxton's diary in which he describes his first day at Chatsworth.
BTW, you quote that you are not "tired of life" I don't think that you mention visiting Dr. Johnson's house.
You must put that on your list for next time.
There is a little statue of Hodge outside enjoying his oysters.
I hope that your husband's blisters have healed.

texasbookworm

Yes, readers, VC is pretty amazing. I too am looking forward to the future with him. And what a memory we now have!

MissPrism—Johnson’s house was on the end of a day’s itinerary and we didn’t get to it –this trip! It goes back on my list of “next times!”

ElendilPickle—I looked for Green Dragon pubs but didn’t see any! I remember enjoying your report and pics—wasn’t your trip for an anniversary, too?

Anna—Yes, the 30 minute walk was from Baslow Nether End through the Chatsworth grounds to the House entrance. It’s an absolutely lovely walk; we were just already tired, DH’s feet especially, and it was a muggy morning and by the end of the day we just really didn’t care to walk another 2 miles. If I were doing this again, I’d look into being deposited at the door via another bus; maybe the one from Sheffield goes there. Chatsworth says on their website that they sometimes run a shuttle from this stop, but I didn’t see it. I think weekend connections might be a little more Chatsworth-accessible.

And yes it was worth all the effort and I’d go back again, the same way even, at the drop of a hat!

emily71

Thanks for the trip report. Missing London so it's nice to live vicariously through your report.

Re:Albert Hall. I've always wanted to see the Proms but have heard the Hall can be very hot. At least you can say you went.

Public transportation-wise, the Fates must have been with you. Either that, or I've had extremely bad luck!

texasbookworm

(Anna--yes, DH's blisters are better!)

I planned, we went, I (will) journal/scrapbook. Wonder how you say that in Latin?

Ok, here are a few (well, more than a few) perhaps final, random comments and details some might find amusing or helpful:

Maps: I can’t imagine planning a trip, much less traveling, without good maps. I know the AtoZed ones get touted here and other places but they seemed bulky to me. I got one by Borch before we left at a chain book store. It is laminated and folds to about 4x10” and has the tube lines indicated at the tube stops so no need to refer to the separate iconic Underground map. It is detailed and big enough to read easily. The other is Bensons Map Guide which I got in London in 2005 (and replaced with another this trip—they’re only about £2) and is a mini-map—but only mini in that it folds up to 3x5”; it is very detailed of most of London.

Planning: I probably spent more hours reading, staring at maps, on the Forum and planning and dreaming than we actually spent in England! But that’s part of the fun (and now I have hours ahead of me doing the journaling/scrapbooking that’s all part of the process of travel for us.) I started with 2 Frommers and one Fodors 2008 guides as general suggestion-makers and overlaid the info there with my preferences and our own limitations. Great guides both. When down to specifics, I used the internet extensively, as well as this Forum. I also got a used National Geographic Traveler London which has great pics and info. And I tore up an older used Rick Steves guide that had “tours” in it (like of St Pauls, Greenwich, Westminster Abbey, etc.), stapled them and took them along to refer to when at the sites.

Taking info with us: We took my DH’s laptop instead of mine, so I printed out info needed before we left. I took a file folder holder with about 16 pockets; for each “Day” I planned, I gathered all pertinent info, guide book info, tickets, etc., and dropped it into a separate pocket. At night I would toss out what ever I was through with from that day and drop in the paraphernalia we’d collected that day. So my scrapbooking will be somewhat easier eventually!

Also I can’t really imagine in these days not taking internet access with us; while there we used the internet a lot to double check on travel schedules, check TfL, look for addresses, etc.

Weather and clothes: You gotta pack for everything in summer in London. Weather from July 14-29 ranged from sprinkles with wind, temps in low 50’s to clear sunny skies with temps in mid 80’s. The only place we really missed AC, though, was in the Royal Albert Hall (and the tube gets stuffy but we expected that.)

Biggest surprise: I think it was the glitchlessness of the travel arrangements. We were blessed.

Biggest disappointment: Having to leave the Proms. And this wasn’t a great disappointment. This was actually a last minute idea (well, ok, if you look at when I ordered tickets like in March or whenever they went up for grabs, it wasn’t like last minute before we left, but it was the last thing I planned). And we got to see the inside of the gorgeous hall.

Most helpful public transport people: Every TfL agent we dealt with. Kudos to them for handling their jobs so well.

Rudest public transport person: An Oxford Tube bus driver who was pretty snide with us when we got, momentarily, on his bus by mistake; he was totally unhelpful in helping us confused tourists find the right place.

Most polite workers at a museum/site: Had to be the patient men at the Chatsworth House entrance.

Rudest worker at a museum: A guard in the Nelson room at the Maritime Museum. You can take pics in the museum. Except not in this room. We didn’t see the sign. The guard was downright sarcastic when telling DH that no photo signs were posted. We never did that pesky sign.

Biggest frustration: Had nothing to do with the city, the country, the weather, the expense, or the people. It was our camera acting weird! This of course was something completely unexpected and unpreventable but none-the-less stressful for us. We had packed a backup small camera. Always do that if pics are important to you.

Crowd comments: London in summer is crowded. Period. So be prepared. The vast majority of crowd situations were completely orderly, polite, and purposeful. In fact, crowds inside of any building or transportation were usually almost silent, which was kinda weird sometimes. Being who we are and the age we are, we did not opt to get into, at least much, the jam-packed situations in various Markets, but that’s just a personal preference. If I’d been with DD or SisterChicks, I’m sure we would have. The only crowds that were dismaying were at Greenwich where for some reason we encountered various shades of aggressive/cluelessness. Next trip, if I go to Greenwich, I think I’ll try a non-weekend day, even if that means skipping the Market.

Also, I forgot to mention at Dover Castle one reason we enjoyed it so much was that there was practically nobody there! Maybe it was because it was at the end of the day.

What I wish tourists would learn: Two things I noticed tourists, of all nationalities (although I only heard “American” spoken about 3 or 4 times), doing that were clueless: 1. Tried to enter the tube before disembarkers disembarked. CLUELESS! I never ride public transport here in my little city, but even I could figure this one out. 2. Walked 3-4-6-10 abreast down already crowded sidewalks. CLUELESS (and just rude). This is not a city where you stroll the sidewalks; go to a park; walk single or at most double file. I don’t know how many walls I scrubbed or curbsides I got shoved to by non-English speaking packs of all ages mindlessly walking through the crowd.

Random London notes: There was hardly any cigarette smoke anywhere! Go, London!
There were lots of trash bags everywhere; I don’t remember this from before. Is there less trash pickup now, or what? I aways felt safe, even though there wasn’t a strong presence from the police force. (Those I MET were extremely polite!)

Public transportation notes: I’m weird. I love the Underground. For visits. I’m sure it would get stale if I had to use it daily, and during both of my trips, I never experienced any delay or real problem, so I’ve seen it at its best. Which is pretty darn good.

I’ve long heard of how trains there are notoriously late. We did not find this so at all. Almost the opposite. The FlexPass was an absolute gem of a way for people like us to travel because of its total flexibility. The advice I got here to arrive at the station about 30 minutes before catching a train was about right for leaving London; coming back to London, at smaller stations, we didn’t need that much.

The Oyster Card is the way to go; I cannot think or find any reason if you’re there more than a day to not use it. It was easy to purchase, easy to use, easy to “top up,” and easy to turn in and get a refund. I just don’t know why anyone would buy travelcards, paper or on Oyster, except to get 2for1 voucher use and even then, you need to do your homework and decide which vouchers you’re going to use and see if the savings on them is offset by extra you’ll pay for travel cards over Oyster, plus need to travel to a train station to purchase. I know people have posted different experiences (like not needing to show travel cards, using other people’s vouchers, etc.) but I’m just telling my experiences.

Expenses: It’s one of the biggest cities in the world. It’s expensive. The dollar has tanked. It’s expensive. It’s tourist travel. It’s expensive. Those are the facts. But we cut costs a bit doing these things: Using the Oyster. Using public transport (I’m almost positive that trains and buses ended up being cheaper for our day trips than car rental plus gas would have been, and public transport within the city is, of course, less.) Using the tube from Heathrow (which is not always the most convenient or even doable, I realize). Eating at pubs, grabbing packaged foods, and shopping at a grocery store (I know Waitrose isn’t cheapest but it was certainly close). Using a few vouchers and discounts I’d found on-line. (I just remembered I’d found a 20% off coupon good at St. Paul’s, too. Google discountbritain.net)
I didn’t shop much. I didn’t buy many souvenirs (who needs souvenirs with 4000 pics!). We didn’t call home but used free wireless for emails. We got a discount from bandb for extended stay. (I think bandb’s and flats are always going to be less than similar accommodations in hotels.) We refilled water bottles and carried them with us.

I love London. “Weight and power, Power growing under weight,” said Wordsworth. It is old and modern, and huge and intimate, with dirty corners and bedazzling flowers, all within a few yards of each other. Thank you, London and Londoners, and England as a whole really, for two weeks that I will relive with delight the rest of my life. And for now I must remember to “not cry because it’s over but smile because it happened.”

carolyn

Beautiful, TBW. London is my favorite place to go, and I have enjoyed every word of your posts.

crckwc1

Thanks for such an informative and entertaining report. About taking the tube from Heathrow, did you have any trouble managing your luggage? Weren't there stairs involved, or did you encounter only escalators?

We have been reluctant to use the Oyster card because we figured one couldn't come out even, but you said refunds are given. Do you know about how much (percentage?) one could expect to have refunded?

So glad to hear you managed to see Chatsworth via public transportation. What a challenge to plan that! We'll be seeing it next month, but by car.

Happy anniversary, too. What a great way to celebrate! Thanks again for posting back with your trip details.

From another Texan (lived 16 years in Portland)

avalon

TBW< I've not enjoyed a report more than yours in ages.

And a big thanks for the discount Britain site. That's one I hadn't seen before

crccwc, if you are going to be in London for 4 or more days, a 7 day Oyster card is the way to go. Even for shorter periods , loading with some pounds will really save you money. A single tube ticket is 4 GBP

texasbookworm

crckwc1
We didn't encounter any stairs that I remember at Heathrow arriving and none for sure leaving. We did have a flight or two at the Knightsbridge stop, but we used the Hyde Park stop when we left and it has no stairs. I think many if not most stops will have stairs; you do know about the TfL website, right? google it, put in tube stops, you'll get info about stairs/lifts etc. at each stop. If you're going to be near a stop on the Picadilly line and you've got like one rolling bag with another or 2 to set on top, and if you're in at least fair health, you should be fine. Further away from Picadilly begins to get hairy,I'd say.

I don't have any idea about percentage of refund on Oyster, but it's really easy to keep tab of how much you have left on the card and easy to find a place to top up, so you don't have to keep too much on there. (What happened with us is that we topped up and then DH didn't go anywhere one day which probably cost me the max, like £6.80 I think, plus I think he may have gotten a free ride one day so his card just had a good bit more than we expected, £12 instead of the 2.50 on mine.) If you ask when you purchase, they'll tell you about limit. I didn't even know there was a limit until we'd exceeded it! I would just say that Oyster has to be the cheapest way; you will get the balance plus the £3 deposit back easily at last tube stop (like at Heathrow). And we didn't mess with 7 day thing, we just put some money on it. If you load a 4 day or 7 day (I think) you've paid for consecutive days no matter whether you use the tube that day or not. I ended up spending about £37 for the whole trip on my card, including the £7 for the ride to and from Heathrow and we traveled a lot at peak times.

texasbookworm

and I posted before I was done!
Portland? We were neighbors!

Enjoy Chatsworth, as if you have to be commanded!

janisj

crckwc1: &quot;<i>We have been reluctant to use the Oyster card because we figured one couldn't come out even, but you said refunds are given. Do you know about how much (percentage?) one could expect to have refunded?</i>&quot;

Maybe this will help. An Oyster doesn't cost a certain amount - you put whatever amount of money you want on it. That could be a 7-day travel card, or just an amount of money to pay-as-you-go. An Oyster is just a plastic card that holds your transit money like a pre-paid debit card. So you could put &pound;20 on it, or more, or less, or the amount of a weekly travel card. Whatever amount you want. Then you can add more if you use up that money. Your refund is whatever is left over, not a %

ElendilPickle

&gt;&gt;ElendilPickle—I looked for Green Dragon pubs but didn’t see any! I remember enjoying your report and pics—wasn’t your trip for an anniversary, too?&lt;&lt;

We saw several, but the picture on my Picasa page is from Ludlow.

You're right, we celebrated our 25th anniversary on this trip - just magical.

We didn't see any &quot;no photos&quot; signs in the Nelson's Navy section of the National Maritime Museum either. I guess it's a good thing no one caught us!

Lee Ann

mogsanova

This is a fantastic trip report that I enjoyed thoroughly! Great insights and I copied and pasted a bunch into my file for my whopping two days in London. Still - to be in England at all! I can't wait. Thank you for all the effort you put into your trip report. Definitely helpful and very entertaining. You're an excellent writer. Thanks for your reply as well to my &quot;2 days in London&quot; post. Very good advice. I appreciate it.

crckwc1

Thanks, TBW and janisj for the info on the Oyster card. Will use it next time!

sfgator

Thank you so much for a wonderful report. I've been to the UK 5 times in the past seven years and your report inspires another visit, and soon!

ChicagoDallasGirl

(sigh)

TBW I'm thoroughly filled with more inspriation for our visit to London after reading your report. I cannot wait to stand in the spray at Chatsworth, visit the Tower, view the Thames, etc.

I recall your post inquiring how to get to Chatsworth via public transport and now share your triumph in 'mission accomplished'! And, your introduction to the house, unlike many of us, I'd venture to say, was not through Matthew McFadyen's Mr. Darcy, (cute as he is) but through Mr. Paxton! How wonderful and distinct.

I loved your comment about breaking in the scarf for DD. Practical for you, but sweet for DD to possess a scarf her dear mama wore whilst celebrating her parents' 30th wedding anniversary in London. Little details like that are priceless.

Especially appreciate the tips following the report. Thank you so much for posting with such detail!
Tricia

noe847

I'm so glad to see your report, texasbookworm, and will be savoring it in the next few days.

Darnwright

Great trip report. We're leaving in 3 weeks and you're insights were spot on. Did you buy your tickets for the Oxford Express once you got to London or online? The website states that they'll send the tickets but I'm not sure how long that would take. We're also doing the Inspector Morse tour. Many thanks from a fellow Texan(The Woodlands.

noe847

Actually, I couldn't pace myself and just savored your entire report today! You did a great job!! Perfect balance of detail and summary. Your husband's note brought tears to my eyes. I'm around your age (married 27 years) and my DH loves the fruits of my Fodor's research.

I'm sure you have your ways of scrapbooking, but I've recently discovered online bookmaking sites and the books turn out beautifully. My favorite is blurb.com - you can use your trip report as the text and embellish with your photos and scans of things like tickets, etc. When you're done, you can order copies for your children, etc.

I did a 333-page book from my Romanian &quot;roots&quot; trip report + photos (we had 3600 pictures from 10 days!) and I've been able to print copies for my relatives. I've even had non-related acquaintances want to purchase the book (which certainly wasn't my intention when putting it together!)

texasbookworm

Darnwright,
Howdy, y'all! Enjoy enjoy enjoy! I hope your Morse tour is as unique as ours, even if you don't have Prof. Wagner as a guide.

We just bought tickets on the bus. I don't know where you plan on boarding; we walked to Marble Arch, where both the Tube and the Espress run some minutes apart, and took the first one that came by, which happened to be the Espress. I would think this would just be the best way.