Sparkchaser, a friend who lives in Wisconsin just texted me, worried about my upcoming visit to U.K....I don't think the irony was noted until I pointed it out.

The attacker was 52 ?
Not usual. He should not believe anymore in the cause or in the 99 virgins.

>>The trouble is that there seems to be an almost endless supply of gullible fools willing to do the bidding of those who manipulate them. They tend to spawn copycats too, though why anyone would want a death like that is a mystery to me. Certainly their faceless bosses don't. <<

I was reading an interesting piece pointing out that the stuff about endless virgins in heaven or whatever has a counterpoint in hell and damnation for a sinful life (not unheard of in other sorts of religious extremism, of course). If you're persuaded that there's a route to wiping out all your past crimes and misdemeanours (even if by a means that's criminal to anyone else), then you might well take it - plus it appeals to the perverted ambition for grandiosity that seems to rule certain sorts of criminal.

Wow, they are upping the rewards. I always thought it was 72 virgins that were the award for being a martyr. Now Wo says they are promising 99, and Patrick says the supply is endless. They must really behaving problems filling those positions!

Do not forget the attempted attack in Antwerp too.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/23/w...ar-attack.html

Without getting too political....

25,000 Americans die of gunshot wounds each year. About 67% of mass murderers in the US are white males, almost all have some sort of Christian affiliation.

The prevalence of this is never addressed but demonizing a small minority of another group is.

I was three blocks from the Trade Center on 9/11 and saw the second plane hit and my building was twice engulfed in debris and human remains. I vowed not to be cowed by politicians, demagogues, and terrorists and to think who is responsible and what can be done in a rational and useful way.

Patrick, my friend's seven year old was hit by a car last week crossing to their development from school. A fight her Mum had brought before the council two years ago in Derby. She was critical. The kids have no proper crossing. Sort of prophetic. Anyhow, I thought the man didn't fit the normal profile. Love how the mayor shut down 45's dumb arse son over his tweet. Please know most of us here don't support him.

Your data seemed high to me IMDonehere, so I checked online and you are even a bit low. The total for 2013 was around 33,000. I agree we do live in a violent nation but, to bring some perspective, the majority of those gun deaths were suicides with homicides being "only" some 11,000. Much too high, obviously, but I don't see the gun culture here changing anytime soon, do you?

Nukesafe-

First compare that number to other industrialized nations. It is stratospheric.

The numbers would be even higher for deaths from gunshots except for an ironic reason. ER docs and RN's are skilled from treating them experience starting from the Vietnam War all the way through Iraq and Afghanistan.

There's really no indication that what happened in Antwerp was anything else then a drunk criminal speeding. I thought that muslims didn't drink alcohol..

Nukesafe-

The NRA has ensured that America will retain its gun culture for at least the next 25 years. If the murder of children at schools did not change our culture, nothing will.

We were in London when the attack happened. We never felt unsafe. We felt safer in London than at home (Florida). Everyone was calm and went about their business. We went about our sightseeing. We had a lovely visit. We prayed for the victims and their families. Very tragic, but we kept on going. I plan to live my life to the fullest as long as I'm lucky enough to keep breathing.

I'm planning my fall Paris/London trip. I am not cavalier about any of it and I'm not booking Baghdad any time soon, but I can't just not do anything.

I'm so tired of those twerps, messing with people, killing people, screwing up their lives and to what purpose? The perpetrators usually aren't even around to "enjoy the fruits of their labor". I just want to say "what the hell is wrong with you?!!!!!)

I don't want the psycho babble, they are just miserable, disgusting excuses for being human. A beautiful day, people going about their business, work or play, and then wham, if you live through it your life is never the same, you get through it, you don't get over it.

"I thought that muslims didn't drink alcohol.."

Well I grew up with muslims and, well it depends, certainly about half my friends drink alcohol, what is interesting is how many radicalised muslims have a history of alcohol or drug abuse. But really most muslims would not see "radicalised" as muslims.

<i>Wow, they are upping the rewards. I always thought it was 72 virgins that were the award for being a martyr. Now Wo says they are promising 99, and Patrick says the supply is endless. </i>

According to a prominent scholar, they're going to get 72 white grapes instead of virgins.

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/04/op...apes.html?_r=0

I always wondered what those poor virgins had done to merit that punishment.

I heard Irshad Manji talk about that with Fareed Zakaria. If it wasn't about something so awful, I would have laughed thinking about them when they get to where ever they think they are going.

<i>what is interesting is how many radicalised muslims have a history of alcohol or drug abuse.</i>

Petty criminals, history of violence, estranged from family, not religious, many are bodybuilders so are taking steroids which cause their own problems ...

... also applies to the converted like last week's murderer.

They become born-again / converted as a coping mechanism but becoming a Muslim puts them further from their families, prior Muslims aren't accepted by their families, so the only people they have as "friends" are people like them, thus creating a positive feedback loop leading ultimately to violence

watch this UK TV series.
http://www.watchfree.to/watch-2a973e...ml#close-modal
filmed before the London attack.Make one think about what is happening to the youths of today and the situation of minorities who find the situation even worse. Having to fight against the stigma that a few of the same faith bring to the table. Plus we now have politicians adding to the stigma.

This all makes me feel so... I am loathe to use the word as it has been hijacked by a nefarious troll... sad .... and angry and helpless. I feel such sympathy for those affected by such events, both the victims of terrorism and those unjustly blamed for someone else's actions. The current political climate doesn't help either. I guess the best we can do is to continue with our lives, to try to broaden our horizons by putting a face to people we have never met, thereby making human connections and perhaps opening each other's minds about people we don't know, religions we don't practice, circumstances we have never faced, and places we have never been. I think fear-mongering makes us weaker and I plan to continue to travel and meet more of the world's people.

As soon as the label "terrorism" is attached to a violent crime, people get much more scared than if it were just a random act of violence. The mass shooting in Norway, the school massacre in Scotland, the many similar crimes in the US, all horrify us, but don't really scare us. We think the perpetrator was a "nut case", and we don't think we know anyone who would do something like that. However, when we hear of a case of Islamic terrorism, we think, "Wow, there are lots of Muslims around.", and we feel that we're at risk.

Actually, we all probably know lots of nut cases; we just don't realize it.