twk

When I went to Paris in 2004, the only places that had trouble with my US-issued swipe and sign credit cards were the Metro and the SNCF. Everywhere else, the card worked fine, including the airport shuttle which used one of those handheld machines.

logos999

>contract prices in Europe are much higher
On E-plus, I'm paying zero monthly plus 3ct/min to German fixed lines. No so bad

xyz123

Sorry logos I put this answer in the wrong thread...

I admit I don't know all the particulars everywhere but I think the statement was true in general..I know my British friends can't believe what I pay...they also can't believe it costs no more to call a US cellular number than a US mobile number and it costs no more to call a US mobile number on a different carrier than mine.....

Heimdall

logos999, I looked up the coverage maps for Canada on GSM World, and they are impressive. The Canadian GSM network seems to do what you say with regards to population coverage, but still leaves large geographic areas untouched. The maps in http://www.gsmworld.com/roaming/gsminfo/cou_ca.shtml show that most of the GSM coverage is in a narrow band along the US border, actually a smaller area than the US. The US population is scattered over a much larger area north to south than that of Canada, making it harder to provide universal coverage.

xyz123

Actually Heimdall I don't remember the exact percentage but I did read one time that a tremendous majority of Canadians live within that narrow band along the US border...look at it this way Vancouver is only an hour or two north of Seattle, Toronto is only an hour or two north of New York State, Montreal is about a half of an hour north of New York State and these are the three biggest cities in Canada...almost all Canadians get US television on their cable and satelite systems so it wouldn't be surprising that Canadian GSM coverage is concentrated along the US border.

AR

And all this prattle has got what exactly to do with chip and PIN?

xyz123

I don't see a battle going on...it's more the exchange of information. There have been far more heated exchanges on this forum over nonsense than this discussion of the way things are done differently such as chip and pin cards in other countries. All the exchanges have been pretty civil.

Heimdall

AR, I think the chip and pin question was pretty well answered, and another topic or two opened up. I have learned a lot on this thread, and have enjoyed the exchange of information. Think about your conversations with friends - do you doggedly stick to the same topic the whole time?

Tracey14

After reading the OP and the various responses, I called my credit card company and asked if I would be safe to use my CC in the UK. I was told that my card did have a chip (it's a fairly new AmEx - and I know that it won't be accepted very many places) and that the PIN was the four-digit security number on the card's front, the number that many websites use for further security. My question: is this true? From other posts, it sounds as if a PIN for a CC is just like a PIN for a debit card, and that it is different from this security number. Sorry if this is ignorant - I've never had a CC that required a PIN.

logos999

The interesting thing in Canada is that if there's coverage at all, GSM is there. Unlike in the US where many places are CDMA only. It seems all TDMA transmitters have been replaced by GSM. Coverage in northern Alberta is esp. impressive. Even in Sask. (ever been to Lac La Ronge? and Manitoba there's GSM.

kmflondon

Tracey14-
The chip and pin system has a pin just like your ATM card does. It works the same way as an ATM/Visa/Debit card does in the US at a grocery store - you have to enter the pin to use it. In the UK they issue a pin when the card is issued and you go to the bank ATM machine and change it to your own code. When I moved here, I thought the credit card pin was just for cash advances from ATM machines so I filed it away as I don't make cash advances - I learned right away that you need the pin for both the credit card and the debit card. As far as the AMEX pin goes, I have never heard of the pin being the # on the front of the card. Call them up and ask if you were to use your amex at a cash machine for a cash advance, is that the pin you would use? It seems extremely unsafe to me. The pin is used instead of a signature. If it is printed on the card, anyone could use your card. . .

Mucky

Ok there are 3 types of card.
1. Chip and pin
2.Chip
3. No chip

1.from Feb 13th all uk cards that are chip and pin will need a pin to be entered no overide no excuses.
2. Chip only cards do not need a pin the equipment in the shop will indicate signature only is needed.
3. Some cards like AMEX have no chip or pin yet they will take a while to issue them and issue will normally be at the normal new card re issue date, they are not re issueing everyones card just to have C&P.
Tourists will still be able to sign, as will disabled people if they have that arrangement with their bank.

C&P cards will take a couple of years to be fully introduced here in the UK this means pending the odd training issue with staff, no one should suffer.
Providing of course we all know the pin of our chip and pin card

Muck

wco81

It's not just technology per se.

Some of it is politics, economic and just cultural. After 9/11, there was talk about smart identity cards. The technology is no big deal, there would be plenty of American tech companies which would implement it.

But Americans were leery about another ID or national database system.

As for mobile technology, that is a political thing. Rather than adopt a European standard like GSM, the govt enouraged companies to compete in each market, resulting in redundant networks where not one network had good coverage. Then the inevitable consolidation occurred and now there is some migration to GSM.

But the surviving mobile companies are fanatic about controlling tech and not giving users choice. Like Verizon, the biggest one, disabling Bluetooth functionality on their phones, the same models which overseas don't have such restrictions. Is it a technological problem that companies like Verizon are backwards? No, it's that the govt. is accommodating these kinds of business models.

That is one reason why for instance the broadband situation in this country is so poor compared to Canada and especially Japan and still developing Asian countries. Those countries had no problem allowing competitive market for broadband or even in some cases, subsidizing the build out of fiber to push the envelope. Meanwhile, in the US, if a city wants to do Wifi, the telcos buy Congress and try to outlaw such efforts. Cheap and advanced broadband? How dare they!

BTW, Europe does the same kinds of things. Like they just had to do their own thing with PAL and 50Hz. But looks like they're adopting pretty much the same formats as ATSC for digital and HDTV. Still fooling with 50 Hz tho.

flanner2

Tracey:

It simply beggars belief that a number printed on your card could be its PIN. What would be its point?

Which in turn raises another question. How can anyone pay staff capable of coming out with such nonsense?

logos999

50Hz is based on standard of electricity. There was no other choice at the time. Not really needed for todays TVs. Most conventional (non flat screen TV) sold today double scan at 100Hz.

AR

xyz123 - I said "prattle", not "battle" (OED - Triffling talk).

Anyway, what will happen is that businesses who still allow customers to sign for purchases will be liable for credit-card fraud, according to APACS - the body that represents banks and CC companies. What they don't make clear is if that stands for overseas customers that don't have a C&P card in addition to the 10% of outlets that have not yet got the technology in place.

However, if your card has a chip then you'll have to use your PIN and not be allowed to sign, regardless of where the card was issued. PIN's are issued on demand anyway.

xyz123

For the record, I am currently in London and have been using my old fashioned magnetic stripe credit card all over the place with no problem whatsoever.....

gradyghost

For the record, this thread is exemplary of why I visit this forum less and less, and don't miss it! Gradyghost

Sue_xx_yy

Love the thread, I'm learning a lot.

First of all - Ben Haines, I haven't seen a post from you in a long while, good to see you're still around!

I just got a new VISA card and was hoping for a chip - nope. However, I did a google and supposedly the first chip cards will be coming out "in a year" in Canada according to a press release dated July 2005. They also say it will take 3 to 5 years to get all the new equipment into stores so as to have a fully functioning system.

I'm not optimistic about the projected dates. My new card doesn't even have the upgraded holographic logo on it.

Regarding the phone coverage in Canada, of course there are large geographic areas uncovered. This is due to the failure of the local inhabitants to pay their cellphone bills. To be fair, they complain that their antlers get in the way of using the devices properly....
Our own near-wilderness cabin has coverage, but only if we use an old style higher powered phone, add an antenna, and stand in just the right position.

AR

Just to add to this thread - here's something from that scare rag (or the spreadsheet for the worried well), the Daily Mail about fraud on chip and PIN.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/liv...=News&ct=5