No Starbucks in Italy?
 

I believe there are no Sgtarbucks coffee shops in Italy and got these reasons why:

https://answers.yahoo.com/question/i...9153437AA4oey1

and from ABC News 2011 posting:
Italians Protect Coffee Culture

In Italy — where one city has already formed an association to protect historic cafés — a battle lies ahead.

For Italians, drinking their coffee is as routine as breathing — a recent survey found that 70 million cups of espresso are drunk in Italy each year. That's 600 shots per person, consumed in any of Italy's 110,000 coffee bars. Milan, nexus of the fashion world, has some 600 cafés alone.

And Italians' cafés are a source of pride and joy. In this country where sidewalk cafés are firmly entrenched in the national psyche, Starbucks' announcement has caused an uproar.

"The Italian café is a culture that the Americans have repackaged," said a spokesman for one of Starbucks' European competitors. "They concentrate more on their image than the coffee."

Italy's La Stampa newspaper chided: "We thought we had everything in Italy, but it turns out we lacked one thing: American coffee,"

QUESTION - WHEN WILL ITALY GET CIVILIZED AND HAVE STARBUCKS COFFEE TO SIP?

And never say never!

The absence of Starbucks in Italy is a decision made by Starbucks, not Italy. Starbucks has feared opening outlets in Italy because if Italians reject Starbucks and the stores fail, it will pop a bubble for the "brand." A lot of non-Italians go to Starbucks believing they are getting an Italian-styled product and -- even more importantly -- an experience of Italian cafe life as well.

The reality is that Italians drink teeny cups of coffee standing up a e bar, in a rush, on the go -- they don't park themselves with electronic devices for hours at on end in a cafe nursing huge tubs of milk and sugar flavored stuff for hours on end. That is actually more typical of Vienna (but Teutonic sounding things don't sell as well in America as Italian sounding things do, even though Italy was on the wrong side of WW2).

A lot of young Italians love all things American and feel left out by the absence of Starbucks in Italy. They eat terrible hamburgers and drink terrible beer thinking it is cool to imitate American lifestyles, and they would probably patronize Starbucks. There have been persistent rumors in the past months that Starbucks was finally going to open an outlet in 2014 in Milan -- where it would make sense, since American hamburgers, fried chicken and bakeries selling cookies and bagels have been successful in proudly-global Milan -- followed by opening one in Rome. However, as of today, I don't think it has happened (maybe I missed a news story) and we are fast running out of 2014 days. Maybe 2015.

I am happy there are no Starbucks in Italy and hope there never will be. When in Rome...... (Eustachio and others). It was disconcerting to find a Dunkin' Donuts (my favorite brand) across the street from the Prado in Madrid.

I hope never. Why would you want yucky Starbucks in a country with delicious coffee?

Starbucks was a miserable failure in Australia which has a very strong Italian style coffee culture.
The only people I ever knew who went in one in Sydney were teens (for similar reasons as sandra pointed out), no Australian adult that we knew would have been caught dead in one.

Thank goodness no STARBUCKS. . Love my Coffee and have just been to Milan . Please no STARBUCKS in Italy .

too true citygirl-it has failed here . We couldn't believe when Starbucks opened in Lygon Street -(an Italian area with great coffee). any way the STARBUCKS is no longer there. Most Aussies drink coffee the Italian way.

Northie- a Starbucks in Lygon Street?? Wow, Starbucks didn't do their research very well now did they? lol.

My opinion on why there is no Starbucks in Italy is why would anyone buy weak, expensive coffee when there is an alternative. So what if Starbucks has a presence in Italy. Just because it's there doesn't mean anyone has to frequent it.

I like Starbucks Verona coffee but I would only make it at home when I control how much coffee goes into the pot.

Why do so many people go to Starbucks or Dunkin Donuts? I can't see the reason for it.

On a scale of 1 to 10, for me, Starbucks espresso is a 3.5 when it is good, and a 1.5 when you get a bad pull. They use a bean that lacks complexity, and they roast it heavily, hence the moniker "charbucks." It did improve starting about three years ago, when the chain realized that quality had really tumbled, and their baristas had such varying skills that they closed every Starbucks in the U.S. for a day and retrained everybody. Now, it is often decent espresso - - more than can be said for a lot of places serving espresso in the U.S. (particularly at airports) where you get an evil, bitter vetch (that most people drown in milk and sugar anyways). Even some boutique specialty coffee shops serve even, bitter vetch in the states, though many make superb espresso - - better than the average place in Italy, because they use better beans (sourced from individual farmers or producers, all high-altitude Arabica). If Starbucks does open in Italy, it will be for kids going for the frappy or ice-creamy things with loads of whipped cream on them and drizzled caramel, not for the espresso.

I have had really bad espresso in Italy, only once that I can distinctly remember. It was at a bar a block from Firenze S.M.N. station. Otherwise, wherever locals go regularly, the standard has to be high, or else they would go somewhere else.

"...they don't park themselves with electronic devices for hours at on end in a cafe nursing huge tubs of milk and sugar flavored stuff for hours on end. That is actually more typical of Vienna..."

Close, but mostly at Viennese Starbucks. Though the cafe culture here seems to be slowly drifting toward electronic device pacification (for hours on end), the only huge tubs of beverage to be found are at Starbucks. A melange at a Viennese cafe is around 6 oz.; at Starbucks it comes in three sizes (!), the smallest being close to "huge tub" size.

In all fairness, one should not forget that using the coffee house as your 2nd living room and workspace has a long-standing tradition in Vienna. Journalists, writers, even lawyers were famous to have "their" coffee houses where they would do business, and even get their mail delivered.
So the new generation of urbanites that install themselves for hours at the Vienna Starbucks outlets is actually more the real thing than the tourist popping in for just a Melange.

Also in Germany, local chains similar to Starbucks had started even before Starbucks set foot here. Nowadays, I could not even say how many chains there are as there are so many - plus individual, owner-operated coffee shops, plus Italian-style coffee bars where you can get your Illy or Lavazza espressi on the go.
In fact, one could say that the "invasion" of Starbucks has actually blazed the trail for any type of coffee shop - which had formerly been a declining or stagnant business that few younger people would care about.

Dunkin' Donuts has become an ubiquitious staple in Berlin over the last decade, but when they only recently opened their first outlet in Munich, people were lining up around the block.

I find it sometimes amusing that it seems to be much more the valued visitor from America from overseas than the locals who seems to have a problem with finding "their" chains over here.
It may come as a surprise but "we Europeans" actually LIKE that stuff.
While I happily admit that DD's coffee is hardly more than a basic brew, I must admit that I am (unfortunately) crazy about their frosted donuts.
Why you consider your home-grown chains as that inferior is a mystery to me, though.

I think the reason Starbucks is not yet present in Italy is two fold - quality and pricing.

I will not go into the question of quality but I just don't think Starbucks would cut it in Italy.

Pricing is very important. The cost of an espresso is generally about Euro 1 in the north of Italy (few break this pricepoint) but can be lower in the south.

Starbucks business model cannot compete with this.

What is Starbucks?

I get an idea of what Dunkin Donuts is, basically fat and sugar for people who cannot spell.

That does not explain, though, why Starbucks is present in Spain with many locations. Where the price, quality of a solo are same as for an espresso in Italy.

I was a bit (but not totally, since money and marketing are, well, MONEY and marketing) surprised to see at least two Starbucks outlets in Vienna earlier this week. And there were people IN them and I somehow doubt those people were all from the United States.

Anyone remember when "Mr. Coffee Snob from Seattle" Starbucks owner was dishing the Dunkin' Donuts and McDonalds coffee offerings as "that swill?" I guess at lot depends on taste and since I am one of those "star<B>burnt</B>" thinkers I never go in them or buy coffee from them.

In the Vienna cafe places we went past I mainly saw people outside actually taking to one another and smoking although I suppose some were on their phones or laptops or tablets.

I noticed at the Park Hyatt hotel the desk clerks are all using laptops rather than PCs.

I wasn't criticizing Vienna, or a caffe culture, and am quite aware of its history. It is typical of American culture to supersize just about everything. I was just pointing out that the upholstered interiors of Starbucks more resemble cafes in Vienna than what you typically see in Italy, plus the array of complicated coffee concoctions, or pastries and small sandwiches -- which exist in Italian cafes, but are not particularly interesting except a few select cities of northern Italy. Starbucks was marketed to Americans as having its roots in Italy, but I think that is a bit of corporate fluff. Even Paris has more of a tradition of hanging out in the cafe as your 2nd living room than Italy does. Italians have the piazza as their 2d living room, and generally prefer being outdoors. It is northern European cities that provided the model for Starbucks, not southern ones (although Italy and Greece does deserve some credit, I guess, for inspiring the "frappaccino.")

It is interesting to note that the "new" cafes of Vienna are making a big deal of having imported Italian-espresso making machines, or having Italian baristas. It is a very distinct style of producing a cup of coffee, as distinctive as Turkish coffee, and Starbucks just doesn't produce the same thing, and neither do most Viennese cafes even if you ask for the alleged equivalents of an espresso.

Although there is no coordinated conspiracy against Starbucks in Italy, it is true that Italy has not been an easy place for international corporate entry. You rarely see international brands of any sort in Italy, except at airports, although that is slowly changing in the cities. But Spain has always been more open to corporate entry and traditionally is just about everything an advocate of globalization could hope for.

I think if you can make Starbucks fashionable enough in Italy you can get people to pay the higher price, as a status"cool" thing, but in addition to the obstacles to acceptance nochblad cited, it is also the case that Italians do not consider a cafe a place to load up on sugar -- which is really how Starbucks is making its money (which is why they charge so much for a single shot of espresso and not much for huge frappaccino). Italians more typically eat gelato if they want sugar, and their concern about getting fat makes them tend to avoid the extra calories in the kinds of sugary drinks that Starbucks sells. If you eat a gelato in the evening (or for breakfast, as do the Sicilians), that fills you up as a meal.

In 18th century England, the coffee shop was often a literary salon. There were even exclusive clubs based in coffee shops, and I think that may have been the origin of British club culture.

It's also true that in Italy, especially in rural areas, the bar (our equivalent of the coffee shop) is a 2nd living room, although not a literary salon. You see lots of men of pensioner age spending half the day in the bar, playing cards, watching sports matches, gossipping, and even napping. I sometimes wonder if their wives have thrown them out so they can watch "Beautiful" (a soap opera, I believe imported from the USA) instead of the football match.

There are also groups of women who meet at the bar after mass and hang around (although not as long) to gossip and discuss what they're going to prepare for lunch. There's a group of women (mostly widows) in our town who go to mass every morning and meet later at a bar, where they mostly discuss their horoscopes. A melange of the Christian and the pagan.

Although I don't care for Starbucks at all, I don't see why they should be kept out of Italy. As Cowboy says, it seems to be foreign tourists that are shocked at the idea. Italy isn't a museum display under glass that has to be frozen in time to satisfy the daydreams of tourists.

The pastries at Starbucks are even worse than the coffee, and that's saying a lot. The things that are supposedly baked, like muffins and scones, taste like they've been cooked by steam. They're also overly sweet and pasty, and stick to the roof of your mouth.

Here are some pictures of Starbucks upholstery and interiors

http://www.carnegiefabrics.com/Carne...90862c4889.jpg

https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/21/329...087c4b36e3.jpg

http://1410cahnrs.archive.cahnrs.wsu...-sb-int-02.jpg


and here are pictures of Cafe Sperl, Cafe Landtmann and Cafe Hawelka in Vienna

https://chrisnsue.files.wordpress.co...fe-sperl-7.jpg

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Ud-7MKING7...+Landtmann.jpg

http://www.martinezfinecoffees.com/m...lka_inside.jpg

and the typical Starbucks order of coffee and pastry

http://prideinphotos.files.wordpress...bucks-post.jpg

and typical order of coffee and pastry in Vienna

http://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/med...fe-central.jpg

Finally, here's a typical cafe scene in Italy for coffee and pastry (totally different)

http://lh5.ggpht.com/-CltHHsVbjE8/Ur...-57-37-174.jpg

"The pastries at Starbucks are even worse than the coffee, and that's saying a lot."


The pastries at Starbucks are also worse than the pastries in Italian cafes, and that's rather an amazing feat too.

I meant to add that I don't see why it is wrong for tourists and Italians to lament globalization and the standardization of food and drink to a lower standard. It doesn't take much for people to forget what quality food tastes like if they get in the habit of eating canned corporate stuff. America is living proof of that. I am heartened that tourists and many Italians appreciate how valuable the coffee and food traditions are, and how much they are under threat, and I am glad they don't want to see them destroyed by corporations (who often don't pay taxes by the way!). Even in some small towns in America, locals resist the entry of Starbucks, knowing it will drive the local cafe or coffee shop out of business.

It will not be an improvement to Italy if there is Starbucks in Italy, and there is something offensive about accusing tourists of trying to hold Italy back by expressing their distaste and dismay at seeing Starbucks fake ripoff culture spreading everywhere.

Those are not "daydreams." It is people recognizing what a nightmare globalization has turned out to be for anybody with any taste. I don't eat at Rossopomodoro or other chains in Italy, and think it is nearly a crime that big corporations like Eataly export crap Italian chain products like Nutella and market it to the world as a "taste of Italy."

There is nothing wrong at all in opposing this. It has been a terrible cultural development.

I am going to add one more comment because I think some people really do need to hear and understand this:

People from all over the world travel to Italy because it is place where they can reconnect with many things of great value that have been destroyed in other places in the modern world. They come to Italy because Italy is a place where these valuable things are part of the everyday culture -- something so simple as an excellent cup of coffee for less than a euro, served in a neighborly way. They see that Italy supports this culture and they are forming ideas about how to support where they live. They are giving it appropriate value, and they are using their experiences in Italy to help resist the thoughtless and destructive patterns that are destroying things of value in other places.

People visiting Italy is largely responsible for improving food quality in other cultures, developing the notions of urban farms, the reintroduction of public space and multi-generaltional sociability as a true value in public planning, and just in life in general. When people see these things in Italy they are not "daydreaming." They are thinking, observing, and treasuring something of true worth.

To mock that is wrong, and self-destructive. Most people are not selfishly insisting on keeping Italy "in the past" for their own private pleasure. They are pointing to Italy as a future model for the world to adopt so there is more sharing. Of course tourists aren't as articulate as corporate slicksters in developing an alternative narrative. But to step in and try to strangle that emerging, anti-globalization rhetoric with mockery is the real stupidity.

I keep forgetting to add (need more coffee) is that the one thing Starbucks did borrow from Italy is the custom of paying for your coffee first, at the cash register, rather than sitting and giving your order to a waiter.

I love everything about Starbucks, apart from their coffee.

And I mean that. I collect their city mugs when I travel (including now a new Thailand addition to my collection) and have close to 40 mugs now. I have four books about Starbucks. I like their corporate culture and am happy that Howard Schultz appreciates his employees and treats them well. I like that any time I visit one overseas I can check my email and Facebook. Their stores are clean. And so on.

I'm not a huge fan of their coffee, though. It's just not that good. It's not horrible by any stretch - but it's not that good.

Every so often I will get a mocha, and now with the season a peppermint mocha - and it's a nice once in a while treat but it really is too sweet and cloying. I had a pumpkin spice latte once, and while the initial sips were tasty, I couldn't even finish a third of it - it was just too much. So that was it for the PSL. I would occasionally get their blonde roast, but I'd still have to put over an inch of half and half in it, as well as a packet of sugar.

I have had their espresso before, and asked for it in a real cup - which does make a difference. That was not bad, but still not like the espresso I have had in Rome which is just amazing.

"and here are pictures of Cafe Sperl, Cafe Landtmann and Cafe Hawelka in Vienna"

Cafe Sperl served some of the worst, burned-out coffee I've ever tasted. And the booth I sat in needed serious reupholstering. Lumpy and there were even springs (or some other kind of wiring) sticking out.

I'm rather happy Starbuck's is not in Italy. Italy is my happy place and we spend a month there every summer experiencing Italian things and not looking for American things. If I want to experience American things I would stay here all 12 months.

The ONLY reason we enter McDonald's in Italy is to use the bathrooms. If Starbuck's were to open in Italy that would also be the only reason to stop in.

They would, however, be easy to find...you could just follow the smell of burnt coffee.

Buon viaggio,

<i><font color=#555555>"I am going to add one more comment"</font></i>
<i><font color=#555555>"I keep forgetting to add"</font></i>

Good GRIEF, Hurricane Sandy! You're on a ROLL, why stop now?

What is Starbucks?>

Tis from Little Orphan Annie and means nothing in relation to the brew.

Forbidding Starbucks or McDonalds is a totally ineffective way to stop globalization. The only thing that will stop the phenomenon is not to patronize these globalized businesses. Why don't people try to stem the tide in their own countries instead of decrying it in other countries?

Italy hasn't forbidden the opening of a Starbucks, and there are already many other fast-food chains here. Starbucks will come here when they think they can make a profit.

The culture in Italy is changing rapidly. When I arrived over sixteen years ago, on summer evenings, there were always children playing in the streets, and adults sat outside their homes chatting and playing cards. This was something I had seen in the US in my childhood, but it had disappeared thirty years earlier. I had always assumed that television and air conditioning had been the death knell of community life. Air conditioning was rare in Italy sixteen years ago, and television was so bad that it was no competition for a game of briscola. Now, air conditioning is arriving, but television is, if anything, worse. There is cable, though.

The kids no longer play on the streets; they're indoors pursuing a digital social life or playing video games. The parents both work, often long hours, and the evening is devoted to catching up with household tasks. Families are picking up take out or eating out more often. Young families I see at the supermarket are buying lots of prepackaged heat-and-eat meals. I may deplore the trend, but I can't blame the people caught up in the maelstrom.

Several organizations we belong to have given up the social meals they used to have, laboriously prepared by volunteers. The people who know how to prepare ragù for 75 people are getting too old for the work, and the people who are young enough have neither the time nor the expertise.

Mom and pop shops are closing because the younger generation can't make a living from them. The little family farms are slowly disappearing for the same reason. Maybe if the younger generation didn't need smart phones and iPads and maxi-screen TVs, and two cars per family, and a separate bedroom for each child, and intercontinental holidays, they could live on what their parents lived on.

What could be done to stop all this? Send women back to the kitchen? Change the whole basis of the economy so that everyone has less money but more leisure? Make kilometer-zero foods as cheap as agribusiness foods? Legislate everyone back to an idyllic past? These remedies are either close to impossible or have ethical impediments.

Obliterating Starbucks won't stop globablization. A radical change in how we live and what we feel we need would be a first step. How many of you are willing to do without all the baubles? If not, there's no point in excoriating Starbucks.

Starbucks will come to Italia sooner or late - I remember the flap when MacDonalds (as many Europeans seem to call it) opened one by the Spanish Steps in Rome - many cities subsequently of the slow food movement insured no Golden Arches in them by simply zoning them out.

But the Mickey ds by the Spanish Steps was perpetually thronged with local youths from its opening - even though they served a buffet of Italian foods nearly all Italians or whoever the young folk were went straight for a Mig Mac and fries, etc.

McDonalds did an end around the virtual banning of their expansion I understand by simply buying a large Italian burger chain - Burghy I believe it were called - and instantly had a present in many Italian big cities (but still eschewed by the slow food Luddite movement) - now many Italians seem to love McDonalds and the thought of fast food not dealing with at times surly wait staff, etc.

But it seems there is no coffee house chain in Italy to buy - only traditional caffes featuring coffee and gelato and stale sandwiches (talk about food quality - the pastries and snack food I've had in cafes wasn't often fresh or really tasty - like something you get in first-class on many Italian trains.

But there must be a demand for a place where foslks can come and get free WI-FI or read or study - like around universities - maybe there are such places as it's been a couple of years since I've been to Italy but the demand must surely be there - never seen anyone plop down for hours in a caffe to study or use WI-FI.

So lament it or not Starbucks is on the way.

"What is Starbucks?

I get an idea of what Dunkin Donuts is, basically fat and sugar for people who cannot spell"

Priceless Bilbo.

Short witty posts : 1
Page after page of drivel : 0

Ta Dickie

Ta Ta for now! On Coronation Street they always say Ta Ta not just Ta it seems!

Ta : Lancashire speak for "thank you"
Ta Ta : Yorkshire speak for " good bye for now"

Pal do you learn anything on your travels?

The reason why there are no Starbucks in Italy is because they are shite.

Lowland Scots speak for the truth.

Pal do you learn anything on your travels?

Ta for the correcto and Ta Ta for now!

I'm Shanty Irish my dad said on his side - what's that mean to you? - ancestors from Threepwood (near Melrose - Hunter clan) - is that Lowland Scotland? If so I must speak the truth.

Ta Ta!

My father said that in Glasgow, when he was a wee boy,tbey said "Ta ta th' noo."

ta and tata are also used in Australia meaning thanks and bye . Most babies learn to say ta amongst their 1st words.

Lots of the coffee bars I've been in in Italy have free wi-fi, you don't need Starbucks for that. And I must have better luck at picking them than you Pal because I've had pretty good luck with the fresh sandwiches and pastries, if they look stale I move on to the next place where they aren't.
And Starbucks has the worst baked goods ever, hands down.

And as interesting as bvlenci's comments are on how things have changed in Italy I don't really see how Starbucks necessarily will fit into that whole time saving, people pressed for time thing when you can already get your coffee fix fast in Italy and the coffee actually tastes good.

I am not saying ban Starbucks but I think if it opened in Italy it would suffer the same fate it did in Australia. They did "stem the tide" there. Lots of us here in North America vote with our feet too as far as businesses we support or don't support. (for as much good as it does, lots of people in North America obviously love Starbucks which is fine, I don't hate it but really don't care for it's products much.)

I can't believe <b>this</b> hasn't been queried yet: [from the OP] - <I>" a recent survey found that 70 million cups of espresso are drunk in Italy each year. That's 600 shots per person,"</I>

Given that the population of Italy is pushing 61 million that's actually very little over one per capita per annum.

I suspect the 70 million figure is incorrect (600 p.a would equate to close on 36.5 <I>billion</I> espressos drunk annually - a figure I also have trouble reconciling). If ABC (or PQ) can't get this number, fundamental to the thrust of the argument, correct well, I for one, can't be bothered to read on.

Dr D.