Good catch, Doctor!

I don't believe the 600 shots per capita per annum, either. It would surely include only espresso consumed at the bars and restaurants, because it's not considered espresso if you make on your stovetop with the moka. Since a fair number of people don't drink coffee at all, and another fair number don't go to the bar for their coffee, I would have trouble believing more than about 100 cups of espresso per capita per annum.

According to this article, 3.4 billion cups of espresso are consumed annually in bars and restaurants in Italy.

http://espresso.repubblica.it/food/d...lacqua/2183995

That comes out to 106 cups per capita, and I swear I came up with the 100 figure before reading the article.

Also according to that article, Italy is only in 7th place world-wide for coffee consumption. The real champions are in Scandanavia and Holland. Having lived in Holland, I can believe that. People there tend to drink coffee all day long, while in Italy, it's usually just one cup at breakfast and one after lunch.

I just noticed this statement, with which I really don't agree:

"A lot of young Italians love all things American and feel left out by the absence of Starbucks in Italy. They eat terrible hamburgers and drink terrible beer thinking it is cool to imitate American lifestyles, "

The young Italians I know like certain American things, especially things like hip-hop music and video games. They don't like them because they're American, but because they appeal to them aesthetically. They also like Japanese animation and Icelandic music. I don't know a single young Italian who could be said to think it cool to imitate American lifestyles. I do know a middle-aged Italian or two who might fall into this category.

McDonalds is quite popular with some Italian kids, but not with all of them, and maybe not even with the majority. They like other things that are salty and fatty, and tend to eschew vegetables, so I think it's genuinely a taste preference. Many parents wouldn't darken the door of McDonalds, considering the food served there to be practically poison; however they cheerfully serve other things to their kids that may be even less salutary, such as Mulino Bianco breakfast bars.

The Starbucks Globalisation , in Europe at any rate, of probably the worst coffee around:


Austria
Bulgaria
Czech Republic
France
Germany
Greece
Hungary
Ireland
Netherlands
Norway
Poland
Portugal
Romania
Russia
Spain
Switzerland)
Turkey
United Kingdom

Looking at that list from the Starbucks website, there are some surprising omissions. No Belgium, Finland or Sweden. Can that be correct?

According to their FB site, they are only a few (7) Starbucks in Belgium. Of those I'd only know the one at the airport by own experience.

There used to be only one Starbucks in the Netherlands - at their own HQ. Then they opened in Schiphol, and are now in a few more places, but they aren't in most towns and cities, let alone on every street corner. When they opened in stations like Amsterdam CS and Utrecht they were popular to begin with - people wanting to try the fabled Starbucks I guess. But now they are less popular - there is better coffee cheaper at other outlets.
Starbucks has a very complicated tax avoidance business set up for Europe, (including the Netherlands, where the coffee is roasted and Switzerland which then buys the coffee from the Netherlands) which people are now aware of, and not happy about.

>> It is people recognizing what a nightmare globalization has turned out to be for anybody with any taste.<<

I'll take a skinny latte and one double-pomposity to go.

People Stateside don't go to Starbucks for coffee necessarily but a place to sit as long as you like and get free WI-FI or a nice place to study or read, etc. Kind of cool I think and Italy seems to lack these type of places where the coffee is not the attraction but the leisurely atmosphere and yes feee WI-FI.

Rubicund

We were in Stockholm and the archipeligo this summer.

They like strong coffee not lattes or cappuccino just straight strong.

They would laugh their pants off at Starbucks dish water.

The best coffee in the world is in Stockholm simply be because they serve them in tall, jar type mugs with no handles like you get from Ikea. The thick rims just seem to make the coffee taste better.

I would guess that that Swedish coffee costs about $5-6 a cup? that would drive me to MacDonalds for sure!

An urban myth Pal.

Some things were bonkers.

Eating out, wine, beer silly.

Everything else pretty reasonable. Fresh food cheaper than Britain, coffee about the same.

Norway is a different story. Apply for a remortgage prior to a visit.

MacD coffee would be expensive too, if the local coffee is.

When we tour the US we sometimes despair of getting a good espresso. Starbucks at least turns out a reasonable one, with a good crema. It's usually nearly cold, but it tastes OK and is an espresso. Many places say yes we have espresso - and serve us a smallish (but too big for espresso) cup of bitter brown liquid, and have the nerve to charge us more for it.
The best espresso we had during our last trip was on our final morning, at the café next to our hotel in San Francisco where we had breakfast before heading for the airport. It was so good we each had three cups of it.

I had an espresso at Schiphol Starbucks once, because they were positioned by the door my son was to exit through. I got it for free because they took too long over it. It was OK though.

I wouldn't seek out a Starbucks normally in Europe.

While Sweden may have had its traditions and appreciation for good coffee even before there was the first Starbucks outlet in the US, one should also not forget that it is a small market.
From a corporate perspective, both factors may lead to the assessment that it is not worth the effort to invest in a nationwide roll-out - aside from the 3 or 4 Starbucks outlets that do exist in Sweden.

In Switzerland, I do go to Starbucks regularly - one of the cheapo places to have a coffee and something filling like a banana bread. And, in Geneva, it was also a Starbucks where the staff at the counter did not not even blink when I paid for my CHF 10 or 15 order with a 200 CHF bill...

"Starbucks has a very complicated tax avoidance business set up for Europe, (including the Netherlands, where the coffee is roasted and Switzerland which then buys the coffee from the Netherlands) which people are now aware of," Double-dutch and an Irish I think.

The list of tax avoiders is getting longer, and includes Ikea, Costa Nero etc. Don't get me started on Luxembourg

I seem to remember that the Coffe shack's largest scam was franchising its own brand rights between EU countries with the head office based in any country which would offer it a great tax rate.

The tax scheme is actually a double Irish with Dutch sandwich ;-)
You don't have to to ship goods, just invoice costs for patents or trademarks back and forth.

When I was a lad.

That was fraud.

Well, the Neapolitan writer De Crescenzo has written some things about the coffee culture in Italy, and the kernel of it is that espresso is an easy and inexpensive drink that makes you socialize. When you pay a coffee to your colleagues, it is a way to tell them you like them. In Neaples they have also the "suspended coffee": you drink a coffee but you pay two, the next customer - you do not even know him/her, or maybe some poor people - will get one free. It is a small way to tell you like the whole world. I think Starbucks is way behind the local Italian bar in this respect, no matter the quality of the drinks.

I guess MacDonalds will serve as the place for folks to go and read, study, get free WI-FI - too bad Starbucks can get a foothold because like the Golden Arches I think it would be popular for what it is - not for its coffee.

>>>>> In Neaples they have also the "suspended coffee": you drink a coffee but you pay two, the next customer

Starbucks has been encouraging the same thing in the States, called "pay forward." You get your espresso macchiato (in Italy its one Euro, maybe 1.10), and at Starbucks instead of paying $2.16 for your little swill, you instead pay for the order of the NEXT person, which is one venti caramel frappucreamy, a grande mocha creamaholic, and a doppio-molto-vente-sugar-frappe-piss-o-chino, grand total thirty-seven dollars.

PalenQ I'm not sure where you get the idea people in Italy have nowhere to read, study get free wi-fi etc. On our recent trip I saw people hanging out in coffee bars, gelato places, piazzas, etc etc. There was free wi-fi all over the place.

dfourh, LOL. Sugar producers must love Starbucks.

raincitygal - thanks for that update - it's been a few years since I've been there and don't recall those type of places - at least on par with Starbucks where everyone it seems is there for the duration and no one cares if they buy anything - I've sat in caffe waiting trains and at times have been told I must buy something or vamoose.

<<What is Starbucks?>

Tis from Little Orphan Annie and means nothing in relation to the brew.>>

It has nothing to do with Little Orphan Annie. You are thinking of Daddy Warbucks.

Starbuck, after whom the chain was named, was the first mate on the Pequod in Moby Dick.

I know that we're all aware of the tax avoidance schemes that places like Starbucks use, but it never hurts to be reminded that Dickie_Gr may be right about fraud, it's just proving it:

http://www.express.co.uk/comment/exp...tumn-statement

OK, now that, that, I don't like about Starbucks.

Starbcks HQs is in Amsterdam I believe for tax reasons (European operations) and I blame the Dutch government as much for that as I do Starbucks taking advantage of a tax policy the Dutch government has put in place to snare the likes of Starbucks and many other international giants hedquarters.

These retailers expect a well educated, healthy workforce and clean safe streets but are not prepared to contribute a penny towards these goals.

Most listed companies are motivated by annual gains not long term goals. Tax should be seen as a long term investment not a cost to avoid.

hmmmm... I have the Starbcuks city mug for Florence and the Italia one so there had to be at least one there in the early 2000s. The city mugs aren't sold outside of the city they're touting. I've not been to Italy since 2007 so maybe they pulled out of the market since then?

Personally I like the coffee. In Boston the choices are sbux or dunkin donuts which is shite. Sbux never purported to be better than what is hand crafted for you in a coffee shop in places like Vienna or Rome. To even attempt to make that comparison is naive.

There is a Starbucks in Antwerp Central Station. A tall cappucino costs 3,75 euros. It's always packed.
You can get good coffee from local cafes, but can be pretty bad too. Coffee to take away was pretty much unheard of before Starbucks.

You can complain about the quality of Starbucks, but I lived in Atlanta in the 80s, when the coffee at most restaurants was awful; large mugs of very weak coffee. There was no coffee culture, you could not get a decent espresso or cappucino. Starbucks was a huge improvement on that.

When I travel in the U.S. for business and I see a Starbucks, I'm relieved. At least I know what to expect. For $1.65, I will get a strong cup of full-bodied coffee that often hits the spot. If I had a choice of Starbucks, Dunkin Donuts, and McDonalds, I'd pick Starbucks.

The regular coffee at Starbucks is different at every location and I think the bean choice changes daily. Sometimes it can taste burnt, often not. I drink coffee with milk and sugar, which alters the true flavor of a naked brew.

In Europe, I would ignore Starbucks if a local cafe is nearby.

, Dunkin Donuts, and McDonalds, I'd pick Starbucks.>

Actually in blind taste tests Dunkin; Donuts and McDs do as well as Starbucks - Mc's gourmet coffees - espresso, etc come from I understand Italian machines order thru their Italian operations and are state of the art.

Italy is actually way behind other European countries in providing free WiFi. Until very recently, you had to register all users of public WiFi (out of a fear that terrorists would use it anonymously). The law has been loosened somewhat, but many places still require that you have an Italian cell phone, to which they send the password by SMS.

I've never had a McDonalds espresso but someone from theshot.coffeeratings.com braved a review. Given their "superautomated machines" and purchase of beans in huge lots "to blend out the flavor profile to a single, consistent stew spread across entire nations," the conclusion was: "the espresso here may not be good, but it isn’t outright awful."

http://theshot.coffeeratings.com/200...alds-espresso/

>>>>>There is a Starbucks in Antwerp Central Station. A tall cappucino costs 3,75 euros. It's always packed.

Location, location, location. I had an espresso there, and it gave me what I needed, but a little checking around found this place for the next day - - had a quiet table on the quiet street - - and you can see by the picture just how rich that cafe' macchiato is - - carefully sculpted by somebody who cares about the beans, the product, and the presentation.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/dougla...57634520511799

Kolonel Koffie "The owner of this brand new bar, Kobe, is a charming young barista with a true passion for coffee ... started experimenting with coffee in his own living room ... soon discovered he had a knack for brewing black gold ... selects the beans himself and makes every café latte into a little piece of art. ... be greeted by one of the best barista’s in Antwerp and enjoy a great coffee."
http://thisisantwerp.be/blog/hotspot...kolonel-koffie

There's an article in the local paper here in Belgium today about coffee bars, with a mention of Kolonel Koffie.
Cafenation is good too.

The article is about 'koffiekrakers' - 'coffee squatters'; people who sit in a cafe with a laptop all day, while ordering just one coffee. Coffeeshop Panorama in Gent has banned laptops.

Great tips Tulips. I have a friend who is a translator - - and he literally sits in coffee shops all day long to do his work. You cannot imagine how many Facebook pix from him I have with latte's in them.

The owner of Kolonel Koffie got his inspiration in Australia (where, as noted above, there is a great Italian-based coffee culture).

Here's hoping for plenty more of the good stuff for you and all here on Fodors!

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/05/bu...hain.html?_r=0

Starbucks has apparently heard the plea for more exoctic coffee - maybe one that can compete in an Italy known for good coffee but IMO not great - pretty much all the same with tons of sugar.

PalenQ - to me, that's part of why I am not super crazy about their coffee. One packet of raw sugar and a good dose of H&H is as much as I would prefer to add, calorie wise, to my morning coffee. But it's still too bitter.

Vanilla Lattes or Peppermint Mochas taste good but you're talking dessert at that point and not something you should be drinking every single day (or, if I'm going to add that kind of calorie count, I want an actual rich chocolate cupcake)

That said, I was at the beach over Thanksgiving and twice had their espresso, in a real ceramic cup, and did just that - one packet of raw sugar and some half and half. It was not half bad.

Ad an American, of 100% Italian blood, living in Italy, and after having read the posts below, I have a rather different take on things. There is a rumor here that it is, indeed, Italy and the restaurant 'lobby' that will not allow Starbucks into Italy. Whether it be true, I know not. I do know that there are Starbucks pretenders, though, that are around regardless of province and that even the most snobbish of Italian coffee drinkers have become clients of these coffee joints. Primarily Arnold Coffee. My partner, a most haughty Neapolitan raised doctor and coffee connoisseur is quite in the habit now of stopping there when he is nearby, in Florence, where we live. However, neither he nor anyone else I know, Italian or foreigner, goes to this Starbucks influenced bar for espresso. Never seen it. They go there for the frapucino, cheese cake, carrot cake (which is, I must say, amazing), bagels and lox, etc. The market is there for American style coffee concoctions. No one would ever go there for an Italian style coffee. The cafes that I refer to might as well be called, Starbucks, because the menu is the same, just letters altered to avoid law suits, as is the atmosphere. Usually, I see Italians sitting outside, along with myself and tourists, drinking a Coffee Caramel Shake which is smothered in whipped cream and iced. It is identical to a frapucino. Again, the market is there. People will always go to their local bar for an espresso, on the run or in my case, a normal, if not a stronger "American coffee" which is two shots of espresso with a shot of hot water and costs €1.50. A frapucino costs €5.00. So, a frapucino is a treat and not to be confused with the morning, mid morning, after lunch, mid afternoon......espresso. My husband is attached to the large coffee and cinnamon, combo, hot. I, always American, go for the more fattening caramel and cream concoction. On Sunday's, we go for breakfast and have coffee and bagels and bring carrot cake hone for dessert or a treat in the afternoon. Passed by just today, at about 2PM, and the lube was out the door and all I heard was Italian being spoken. The conclusion is that Starbucks would succeed remembering that it is not espresso that would ever be their big seller but, instead, the Starbucks based coffee concoctions that it is more known for. Sorry for writing so much. Auguri a tutti!