Hey Folks

I am new to this board but I have been impressed by the quality of discussion so I thought I'll ask for some advice. I am traveling to France, Italy and Spain in mid Sep. with my 13 year old son ( he has special needs). We'll be there for two weeks. We are planning to go to Paris, where we had a lot of fun last year, and stay for 2 days, then drive to Cote D'Azur, stay there for couple of nights, then drive to Italian Riviera. This is where I am needing my first help. I like to spend some time in Tuscany ( a short day is enough and doesn't have to be Florance - I have been there, and although I like to go back again and again, I think my son will enjoy other places more). I also like to take him to Venice and then to Rome, spending about two days in each city. From Rom, we are going to Fly to Spain and I am thinking of Barcelona with a possible trip to Seville, if we have time.

Questions for anyone who could help are:

France: ------- Any interesting towns that we should definitely see in our way - We'll probably go through Dijon and Lyon or through Bourges, Clermont and Vichy, and the small towns in between.

We stayed in Nice last year and I liked it, despite the crowd and the big hotels, but the beaches were not sandy. We may try Monte Carlo or St. Tropez. Any suggestions?


Italy ----- How long will it take to drive from Cote D'Azur to the, say, midpoint or so of Italian Riviera and can we then drive to Tuscany the same day, stay there that night and take a train to Venice, or should we forget Tuscany in this trip? ( I think seeing Venice and Rome is really good for my son). Any suggestion for the best places to spend the night either in Italian Riviera or in Tuscany?


Spain ------ I am thorn between Madrid and Barcelona and we won;t have time to do both - we'll have at most three days in Spain. I am leaning towards Barcelona because it is by the sea and we can also make day trips down the coast. I like to also see Seville, or some other traditional city. What's the best way to get from Barcelona to Seville - I imagine flying would be best because of the distance. Any suggestions?

Thanks much in advance for your replies.

Welcome on board Safa!
As you can read my screen name I will obviously tell you to stop in the center of Dijon to enjoy it. Go to the tourist office and ask for "the owl's trail "brochure (2&euro. If you have at least a couple of hours, follow the owl's steps which will show you most of the nicest sites in Dijon.
http://www.dijon-tourism.com/uk/dijo...th_knowing.htm

happy travels!
coco

ttt

the leaning tower of pisa might be fun for your son to see. There are also many castles in northern Tuscany. He might also like the boat rides along the Ligurian coast and/or the aquarium in Genoa.

For a two week trip, it appears to me you are trying to cram in far too much driving and sightseeing.

Even if you don't encounter traffic, it would take you all day to drive from the Cote D'Azur to Tuscany (you'd arrive when it is dark) --- and then what would be the point of then turning around to take a train to Venice? Why not Rome, which is only 1.5 hours away? And from there you could fly to Venice.

With only 3 days to "see" Spain, you are hardly going to have time for trips down the coast from Barcelona if you also plan to visit Sevilla. (Yes, you'd have to fly).

For a two week vacation it sound like you are taking your son on a tour of airports, train stations, car rental offices and hotel reception desks. Might he enjoy revisiting Paris, then seeing some castles in the South of France for several days, then a flight to Venice (from Nice) with several days there, and then a drive through Italy to Rome -- and then home?

That sounds more manageable.

If you would prefer Spain, start there (Madrid) and work your way up to Paris. There are many castles and coasts you could visit.

Thank you all for your great suggestions. I really apprecaite you taking time for this.

I should have explained that more than seeing the museums and historical sites, I am interested to have my son be exposed to the way of life in the countries we visit. His special needs probably limit his ability to gain as much from a detailed visit but we had a lot of fun driving through southern France last year and just passing by different cities, small restaurants, fields, etc. It was a special time for us. I want to do the same in Italy this year, driving from the Italian Riviera to Rome and then taking the train to Venice. I decided to cancel Seville and instead spend more time in Rome/Venice/Barcelona ( I thought Venice will be more interesting for him than Seville, although I would have preferred Seville myself!).

So my questions to you seasoned travelers are as follows:

I was torn between driving from Italian Riviera (say around La Spezia) to Venice vs. driving to Rome - The thought of going through Parma and Bologna was enticing but I also wanted to drive through Tuscany so even though it takes a bit longer to drive to Rome, I though that's better. I am a bit concerned especially since we are likely to arrive late night and I hope we don’t; get lost in the highways around Rome! Any convincing reason why we should go to Venice and then take the train to Rome? Or any suggestions on how to make the trip to Rome safe and sound?

Second, I am planning to stay in St. Tropez vs. Nice where we stayed last year (and I did enjoy it there but I like to try a new place this time and also have sandy beaches). Any suggestion on if that's a good idea and any good hotels?

Here is my itinerary - any suggestions or pointing of obvious problem areas is much appreciated:


Saturday, Sep. 16 Paris
Sunday, 17 Paris
Monday, 18 Leave to Cote D'Azur
Monday, 18 - night Cote D'Azur
Tuesday, 19 Cote D'Azur
Wednesday, 20 Cote D'Azur
Thursday, 21 Drive to Italy
Thursday 21, night Italian Riviera/- Stay in Cinque Terre

Friday, 22 Leave to Rome
Friday, 22 night Rome
Saturday, 23 Rome
Sunday, 24 Rome
Monday 25 Train to Venice
Tuesday 26, Venice
Wednesday, 27 Flight to Barcelona
Thursday 28 Barcelona
Friday 29 Barcelona
Saturday 30 Flight back to Paris


Thanks to all of you again.

It looks to me like you are picking up your car in France and dropping it off in Rome -- which will probably cost you hefty "drop-off" fees.

To avoid that, I'm going to suggest the possibility that you take a fast train from Paris to Marseilles, take another train to Nice (or rent a car and do a little exploring), take a train from Nice (or Lyon) to Torino in Italy, spend at least one night there, and then pick up a car in Torino to head for Cinque Terre.

I've never plotted this train route, but I think it works.

Another reason I'm suggseting you route through Torino is because I'm wondering if your son might like either the Auto Museum there, the movie museum or the Egyptian museum. (The last is quite a conventional museum). If not, might he enjoy the aquarium in Genoa? If so, switch from taking the train to Torino and renting a car to taking the train to Genoa and renting a car.

I am tempted to suggest to you also that you skip Rome and cut across Italy from Cinque Terre to spend time in Lucca or other smaller towns like Verona (which has a great Roman amphitheater), before reaching Venice. I am thinking that these smaller historic towns are less abrasive and traffic-clogged than the big cities. You might be able to include a trip to the lakes, with boat rides to islands or even an amusement park (Gardaland on Lago di Garda).

It's a toss up between BIG famous sights and being overawed and what I think might be more freedom of movement in some of the smaller towns where there is no car traffic and fewer tourists, but lots of delights.

Just some thoughts.

PS, Safa1:

Having read your post again, I didn't mean to once again suggest museums and monuments as destinations. Would you perhaps prefer to stay mainly in small towns where you can interact with the locals and enjoy some outdoor life? It's not really hard to do such a trip, but perhaps you are more keen to see Rome and Venice.

nessundorma, cocofromdijon

(cocofromdijon - Thanks for the Dijon suggestion - I'll try to stop there)


Thanks for your suggestions - they are very helpful. And yes, I do intend to bite the bullet and rent the car in France and drop off in Italy, unless it is just absurdly expensive. I found that going by car is a real pleasure in Europe and you learn a lot and see a lot. It’s also easier to manage the time and logistics - even when you get lost, you are on your own schedule! Last year, we took the TGV from Paris to Bordeaux where we spent a night in a château and then drove from there to Nice - it was fun, even though it took longer than I thought, it was VERY HOT, and we spent the night in Montpelier (hadn't planned that but it was getting too late). So this year I thought we'll cut through the middle of France and also do some driving in Italy down Tuscany, and then take the train from Rome to Venice. I like to give my son a balance of big city stuff ( even though it seems overwhelming to him sometimes, some level stimulation actually is good for him) and small towns, but mostly big cities. We live in fairly quiet area in Palo Alto, California so I think some excitement is good for him. Thanks again and I'll keep you posted.