hlrsr

Hi all,

I will be embarking on a lil tour of Europe for about a month in August and I need some help planning the transportation. These are the stops as of now:

Frankfurt (entry/exit point)
Prague
Brno
Vienna
Bratislava
Budapest
Cluj-Napoca
Milan
Ibiza
Barcelona

The main cities of the trip are Prague/Brno, Budapest, Ibiza, and Barcelona.. I guess Cluj as well. Places like Vienna and Bratislava may just be a 1 day stop off kind of thing.

It seems like to us that a Eurail pass will not suit us. They are expensive already and coupled with the reservation costs they will only cost more. Seeing as how we have a bunch of stops in Eastern Europe where the trains are already cheap, we felt the rail pass wouldn't be worth it.

Getting to Cluj from Frankfurt with all the stops previously mentioned seems like it will be cheap and easy, however it's when we head Westward that we are clueless at this point.

What would be the best/cheapest way for us to get to Ibiza/Barcelona from Cluj? Looking at flights, we can catch a Ryanair flight from Bratislava to Bergamo, then another flight from Malpensa (I realize it's a different airport) to Ibiza. The cost of that ends up about 65 Euro or so. However, the issue with this is that we have to book these flights very soon which eliminates any sort of flexibility we might want.

Can anyone shed some light on say how much it would cost to maybe train all the way over there? It seems extremely difficult or even impossible to find the prices of these trains online.. any help would be appreciated.

Sue_xx_yy

To take the train from Cluj-Napona to Barcelona takes over 40 hours with up to 9 changes of train on a trip spanning 7 countries. This could be an epic train journey if you really enjoy trains, but it would need a heckuva lot more planning (not to mention money) than I suspect you are willing or able to do, especially given that you are almost about to leave. It would also ideally call for different air gateways than what it seems you have already booked and paid for.

I'll take your reassurance that any help would be appreciated at face value, and say that you should forget about Milan, Ibiza, and Barcelona and stick to Germany-eastern Europe. Head out and after 14 days, start heading back to Frankfurt. Believe me, a month will go by quickly - especially if you want to have some flexibility. Bon voyage.

janisj

100% agree w/ sue . . . .

"about a month" is not nearly long enough for all those places spread across most of Europe.

hlrsr

Yeah, I figured it would be one hell of a voyage, but I guess what I was looking for is confirmation that it would also be quite expensive, and that extra cost is likely not worth the flexibility of taking the train.

If you had to venture a guess, or maybe you know, how much would it most likely cost to take a train from say Budapest to Milan, including any stops which are probably neccesary. Just a rough estimate would be fine so I can compare it directly to flying.

I appreciate the advice on eliminating Western Europe entirely; it's something I have considered heavily. However, it seems the most consistent piece of advice given to me by friends of mine who have gone in similar tours of Europe is GO TO IBIZA. Being 21, it's just something I absolutely have to see. Despite reading advice on not having the mentality that this is the only time you will ever go to Europe, I simply cannot wait to go to a place like that.

I originally wanted to go to Milan for a few days but have since scrapped that idea in the interest of more time in other cities, now it just seems it is the best place to stop off for a day enroute to Ibiza via cheap flights. There is also a cheap flight (45 Euro) from Barcelona to Frankfurt so that works out well for us.

Thanks for the help

alanRow

I'd love to know why Brno is a main city whilst Vienna & Milan are "one day stop off type of thing"

Frankly you've left your planning extremely late otherwise I'd suggest you check the likes of www.skyscanner.net & www.whichbudget.com for low costs airlines (note not low cost flights, not at this date), but it's going to be the only way you can do this without spending most of your time travelling

janisj

if Ibiza is a "must" (why is beyond me - but I guess 21 yo explains it) - then stick to Italy, Spain and maybe one other place.

If Ibiza be expendable - then stick to Frankfurt, Prague, Vienna, Budapest and that area.

hlrsr

d

hlrsr

I am not sure what's going on with my posts right now, but I'll try it one more time:

I am travelling with two other people who have some specific agendas in Europe. They have friends to meet in certain cities and whatnot, Brno is one of those cities. Also included is Prague and Cluj, I did try to get Cluj eliminated but to no avail. Budapest would be enroute to Cluj and the reason I have stated that Vienna is maybe a one day thing is because we have decided we would rather have more time allocated for Budapest. If we are close-by to Vienna and Brno is lame then we can go check it out for a day, but it's not really a priority like say Prague, Cluj, or Ibiza. One of the people on the trip has been to Vienna already and I am willing to sacrifice it to spend more time in other cities.

I have been keeping a very close eye on skyscanner.net for a long time, and I have been trying to push my friends to start booking these tickets. They still seem cheap to me, the path to Ibiza would be as follows: Bratislava -> Bergamo (35 Euro) Milan Malpensa -> Ibiza (32 Euro, 15 the day before) still undecided at this point how we'll get to Barcelona, but then Barcelona to Frankfurt is another 45 Euro. This is why I say Milan is a stop-off, I would love to spend some time in Milan, but because a friend of mine is hell-bent on going to Romania, I would rather spend more time there instead of somehow splitting 3-4 days between Romania and Milan.

I should add that we don't really have an interest in seeing much of Frankfurt, from all accounts we've heard it's actually quite a dry city. Again, this isn't to say we hate Germany or whatever, but we have other priorities which are ahead of it for this particular trip. We will likely only spend one day there and then take off to Prague.

Also, while I understand the notion of spending most of your time in a concentrated area (say Spain and Italy) my feeling is that with these cheap flights it isn't so much of an issue to travel those long distances in Europe, I mean, total flying time in our path from Bratislava all the way to Ibiza would be about 3 hours or something.

Thanks for the advice, keep it coming if you have more. I will likely be booking these flights within the next few days.

ira

Hi H,

As Winston Churchill once said, "This pudding has no theme".

Here it is July 23 and you are still planning a visit in August.

Ibiza is known for thousands of people coming to party. I take it that you plan to sleep on the beach?

Because your friends have friends that they think they would like to visit you are going to odd and/or out-of-the-way places.

Why are you flying RT from Frankfurt instead of into Prague and out of Barcelona?

You will spend a month in Europe without seeing London, Paris, Rome or Berlin?

I look forward to your trip report.

Sue_xx_yy

Hlsr

I doubt anyone other than a rail agent can give you a price for a rail journey that complex. It is actually one of the few trips for which, say, a pan-European flexipass might actually pay.

You are looking at your itinerary one 'tree' at a time, instead of trying to see the forest and whether it is manageable. It isn't.

It isn't because you state two contradictory objectives: you want to have flexibility and yet you have devised an itinerary that is chock-full of constraints. You are attempting to cover a geographic area so large, that even budget bus tours ("if this is Tuesday, this must be Belgium&quot don't attempt it, which should tell you something. You have friends with specific agendas....they wish to meet friends who will, in turn, have schedules and agendas of their own.You are travelling during August, the traditional European holiday period, which could give you a break on price in some places but send prices through the ceiling in others. On that note, I strongly, strongly advise you not book your way to Ibiza in August, without knowing how the heck you are going to get back from that island to the mainland.)

Regarding the territory you want to cover: It is true that flying can be cheaper and faster. However, the actual time one spends in the air is the least of your worries. The cheaper the airline, the more stringent the regulations on check-in times - you will need to be at the airport well ahead of time, up to 3 hours. You also need to figure out how to get to the airport in question, which for cheap airlines won't likely be a major one. Then there are baggage restrictions (a real headache in these security-conscious days, especially the restrictions on gels and liquids) and baggage surcharges. Both of these things can throw a wrench in plans and budgets.

Yes, trains in eastern Europe are cheaper. There is often a reason for this. You might not like Germany (or think you don’t) but after riding the rails in Romania, you may well develop an increased appreciation for the German train system (that is, when it's not on strike - German rail has recently had serious labour issues. Hopefully there is someone here who is up on the latest news who can fill you in.) Labour issues also have a way of cropping up in airports, as well (especially in Italy) and you will need time and energy to figure out ways around them if and when they crop up.

I know that you are so far getting mainly negative responses, but truly it is best to accept and plan for life's nasty realities at the start.

hlrsr

I don't mind the negative responses at all, just makes me more aware

Personally, I have been pressing to have the Ibiza section of the trip planned for about the past month. The problem I have is it is my friends who keep harping on how they want flexibility and just want to take the train. I have been trying to convince them by saying it's much more likely that we will just not end up going if we plan to "wing it" via train all the way to Barcelona/Ibiza. The point of this thread was to confirm that it's likely ridiculously expensive, but you've also shown me that it's just plain unreasonable.

I am not so hell-bent on the flexibility.. yes, we have these set destinations, but the extent of the flexibility is simply, "oh, Budapest isn't really our thing, let's move on to Cluj."

My vision of the trip is somewhat similar to what you suggested earlier; you say that we should head out from Frankfurt for 14 days, then start making our way back. What I've suggested is that we head out for a similar amount of time, but then our constraint is we have to be in Bratislava by the 23rd (we land in Frankfurt on the 6th) to begin our tightly-planned section of the trip and catch a flight to starting making our way to Ibiza. Regarding flying back from the island, the cheapest flight for the day we'd leave is 42Euro, from what I've been told, the ferry is 40 Euro and we'd have that to fall back on. If you are suggesting we should just book that 42 Euro ticket then I will consider that option heavily. Does this plan of mine seem more reasonable or are we still reaching too far?


ira:

Trust me, I have been pushing confirming these plans for months, I am dealing with some stubborn folk (although I'm being quite stubborn myself) I would love to go to those places you mentioned (though I've been to London) but that just isn't this trip. I actually joined onto this trip so it isn't really my place to really push to eliminate Brno and Cluj so we can go to Rome etc. As I've read numerous times online, I can't have that mentality that this is the only time I'll be touring Europe and need to see everything, we have places we need to go and I'd rather spend some more time there to really get to know them.

Oh and as for Frankfurt, the simple answer is cost. It was far and away, and I mean FAR AND AWAY cheaper than any sort of open-jaw trip we could come up with. And yes, I did factor in how much it would cost to get in/out of Frankfurt.

Sue_xx_yy

First of all, your 'cheap flights' to Ibiza from eastern Europe aren't that cheap once you add them all up:
E35 Bratislava to Bergamo
E15 or so to commute from the airport in Bergamo to Milan and then to Malpensa airport; you might end up having to overnight in Milan as all of this shuffling plus check-in time, etc. will take you at least 5 or 6 hours, and you have to meet the airline schedule;
E32 to fly Milan to Ibiza
E40 ferry to Barcelona
E42 air Barcelona to Frankfurt
TOTAL E164 plus overnight in Milan, which hardly looks like a bargain to me.

Personally, I'd look for a different place for a beach scene, one that fits in with your friends' reluctance to go the air route and their preference to stick to ground transportation. Head to Trieste,Italy on an 8 hour rail from Vienna, you are now on the Adriatic. Where there is sea, there is bound to be seaside. For example, you could continue to Venice in just another hour; the beach there (Lido) is not the standout attraction but it is a beach and hey, it's Venice! (From Venice you head to Verona, and thence up to Munich and then back to Frankfurt.) If you weren't already heading to Prague, Budapest, et al I'd have suggested going to the beach resorts in Croatia but I think this would be a bit of a stretch (although there is a 2.5 hour bus from Trieste to Rijeka, Croatia with local ferries to nearby islands with beaches, or an overnight ferry from Rijeka to Split, with another overnight ferry back from Split to Rijeka. )

But really, Ibiza is just not a good plan, not at this time of year and not at this late booking date. I'd forget about stringing together cheap flights in high season, too many 'moving parts' to that idea, too much to go wrong.

robertino

Ibiza is not going to work. Logistical nightmares aside, it's just too late.

Save it for next year. 22 isn't so old. And enjoy Central Europe!

janisj

I think you said there are three of you - right? Do the other two insist on Ibiza and you not so much??

If so, and if it were me, I'd just tell them "bye, I'll meet you back at the airport in Frankfurt when we fly home" and leave them to figure out their own logistics.

Then you go somewhere that makes more sense . . . .

hlrsr

sue, could you estimate how much those trains you suggested could cost?

164E doesn't look like a great bargain, you're right, but I'm gauging it against my friends who went on a previous trip to Europe (one of whom is with me on this trip) who spent $500 on a rail pass PLUS a couple hundred in reservation fees and what not. I look at that 164E and think, "~$230 for transportation for half of the trip where the other half is mostly in central/eastern Europe can't be so bad"

hlrsr

It seems we are all wanting to go to Ibiza by the way.. we would prefer not to split up. It'll happen, of course, but to split up for half of the trip isn't something we really want to do.

PalenQ

I need some help planning the transportation

for these type questions i always refer two great sources: www.ricksteves.com as it has lots on trains, buses, cheap flights, passes, etc. and www.budgeteuropetravel.com to get their free European Planning & Rail Guide which is a great primer on using trains as well as lots other info.

and about that extra $200 on reservation fees with a pass - except in Italy and Spain no countries on your list require reservations. And anyway it would be impossible to spend $200 on reservations - night train sleeping charges yes but $200 on reservations, which typically cost $5 (but on some Italian and Spanish trains and Thalys much more) means 40 train trips - hogwash IMO

hlrsr

those lying sons of! Well, that's what they told me, I'll try to confirm the details of that.

Basically they felt the rail pass they bought was one of the bigger mistakes of their trip. Might I add, they took an 80 euro ferry to Ibiza, so tack on another ~$110 to their transportation costs.

Thanks for the resources.

PalenQ

Well if they paid $200 or more on reservations at am average of $5 apiece that's at least 30 train trips - figuring in the few that cost more than $5 then by any rocking the pass was a great great deal. 30 trains at $520 ia less than $20 a train trip - hell you can't go very far in Europe for $20 $ - even a one-hour trip in today's Euro skyrocketing Europe at that price.

hlrsr

Ok so I have asked them about their claim of the reservation fees.

Their estimation is that it cost an extra $200-300 per person extra in those fees. I asked about reservation fees being $5, to which he replied that there was only ONE small train in their train-a-thon from Rome to Barcelona where the fee was $5. Vienna to Rome was 45 Euro (per person!), and Rome to Geneva was a similar price.

He also mentioned that they were not neccesarily sleeper trains when these large reservation fees came into play.