Need advice on Swiss trip for 7/8 days
May 2nd, 2014, 12:06 PM
#22
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I'd have to disagree with the prescriptive four nights / three day thing>
me too! Yeh for cities like Rome, Paris, London at least but Salzburg and smaller gems no - unless you use them as a base.
Not all cities are equal.
me too! Yeh for cities like Rome, Paris, London at least but Salzburg and smaller gems no - unless you use them as a base.
Not all cities are equal.
May 3rd, 2014, 07:28 AM
#23
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Here we go, people taking something out of context and assigning an absolute to it.
The 3 days/4 nights that I talk about is a PLANNING TOOL for those who feel the need to pre-plan their travel. It is intended to stop people from making the commonest mistake made by tourists which is trying to see/do too much in too little time. But it is a tool and like any tool you have to use it correctly.
I actually find it ridiculous that anyone thinks they can decide beforehand how much time they will need in a place they have never visited before. I have gone to places and left without even staying a night. I have gone to places thinking 'umm probably stay 3 or 4 days' and stayed for weeks or in one case, literally for years.
When you use a general rule for something, it is a general rule, not an absolute rule. The 3/4 rule simply gives you a way to limit travel days to no more than 25% of your total time. Does anyone really think that spending more of your days moving from place to place is best use of time? I think not. So if you insist on pre-planning it simply makes sense to start from somewhere.
I don't use the 3/4 rule myself. Travel can be as simple or as complicated as you choose to make it. Those who pre-plan their travel in fact choose to make it complicated.
If it were my first trip to Switzerland and I only had 7/8 days how I would go about it is no different than I would for anywhere else. I would fly to A and if it were a late evening arrival I would pre-book that ONE night at a hotel. But that is all I would pre-book.
I would stay in A until I was ready to leave and then decide where I was going next. I MIGHT end up spending my entire 7/8 days in A or I MIGHT leave the very next morning. I have no way of knowing how long I want to stay in A. Nor does anyone else.
The problem lies in pre-booking. It forces you to pick a number for each place without knowing in fact what the right number for YOU really is. Stop pre-booking and the issue goes away.
For most people that represents a paradign shift they cannot even see.
The 3 days/4 nights that I talk about is a PLANNING TOOL for those who feel the need to pre-plan their travel. It is intended to stop people from making the commonest mistake made by tourists which is trying to see/do too much in too little time. But it is a tool and like any tool you have to use it correctly.
I actually find it ridiculous that anyone thinks they can decide beforehand how much time they will need in a place they have never visited before. I have gone to places and left without even staying a night. I have gone to places thinking 'umm probably stay 3 or 4 days' and stayed for weeks or in one case, literally for years.
When you use a general rule for something, it is a general rule, not an absolute rule. The 3/4 rule simply gives you a way to limit travel days to no more than 25% of your total time. Does anyone really think that spending more of your days moving from place to place is best use of time? I think not. So if you insist on pre-planning it simply makes sense to start from somewhere.
I don't use the 3/4 rule myself. Travel can be as simple or as complicated as you choose to make it. Those who pre-plan their travel in fact choose to make it complicated.
If it were my first trip to Switzerland and I only had 7/8 days how I would go about it is no different than I would for anywhere else. I would fly to A and if it were a late evening arrival I would pre-book that ONE night at a hotel. But that is all I would pre-book.
I would stay in A until I was ready to leave and then decide where I was going next. I MIGHT end up spending my entire 7/8 days in A or I MIGHT leave the very next morning. I have no way of knowing how long I want to stay in A. Nor does anyone else.
The problem lies in pre-booking. It forces you to pick a number for each place without knowing in fact what the right number for YOU really is. Stop pre-booking and the issue goes away.
For most people that represents a paradign shift they cannot even see.
May 4th, 2014, 08:18 AM
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Suze, everyone who pre-books drags out the same old excuses for why they pre-book and try to say they are reasons for doing so.
That sounds fine at first glance but does not take into account anything else. Let's suppose you visit France and the following is a day on your trip.
You are driving through the countryside, exploring back roads on your way from A to B and you come to a nice little village with a river running through it and a nice little restaurant with a terrace overlooking the river. Looks great, you decide to stop for lunch. So far so good suze?
You enjoy a lunch, watch the ducks and swans on the river, the sun is shining, you decide to have a second glass of wine after your meal and just enjoy the view. After a while you say to yourself, this is a nice little village and I'd like to stay here for the night. Stroll around the village, visit that little church I can see the steeple of from this terrace, etc. B will still be there tomorrow.
Now comes the 'pre-booked' problem. If you have a reservation at a hotel in B, what do you do suze?
Here's what I DID. I asked the restaurant owner if he could recommend a hotel in town. He told me there were two but he would only suggest one. He gave me the hotel name and directions. We drove over for a look.
The hotel looked fine from outside. Small(around 15 rooms) but surprise, surprise, the door was locked and no one to be found. Funny way to run a hotel I thought. So I drove back to the restaurant, spoke to the restaurant owner again and he laughed. 'Oh, I didn't think' he said, 'It's Sunday, Pierre will be at home, I'll call him for you'.
So we sat with another glass of wine and after about 10-15 minutes Pierre showed up. We introduced ourselves, I ordered a glass of wine for Pierre and we had a chat.
Regarding the hotel being closed, Pierre said, 'It's Sunday, I like to spend Sunday at home with my family just like anyone else. I realize someone might show up looking for a room but the money is not more important than my family.'
He told us the price of a room, gave us the entry code for the front door of the hotel, told us to pick any room with the key in the room door (which meant it was vacant and available) and he would see us in the morning at breakfast which was included. We chatted a bit more, he finished his wine and went back to his family.
We spent a lovely afternoon and evening in the village, had a great dinner back at the restaurant where the owner was by then speaking to us by name and had a good nights sleep in the hotel. The following morning, after breakfast we went to reception annd paid Pierre for the room.
Pierre had not had any ID from us, credit card info, etc. before giving us the entry code to his hotel. He had no way of knowing if we would steal, leave at 5am without paying our bill, etc. He simply met us, judged us worth trusting and that was that.
Sometimes, renting a room can be an actual memorable experience. People often say they want to experience the culture of a place, meet the people, get off the beaten path, etc. but do nothing that will make that happen. Nor is this example a one of. I can give you many more examples of where renting a room was part of the whole experience of travel.
But if your thinking is that 'you don't want to spend time looking for a place to sleep' as if it were a chore, what can I say? I can't think of more than a handful of times in thousands of nights of travel that finding a room was a chore. Most times it is a simple thing, a neutral if you will. But I can think of many times where it was actually a very worthwhile experience.
There is no way that pre-booking can match that.
That sounds fine at first glance but does not take into account anything else. Let's suppose you visit France and the following is a day on your trip.
You are driving through the countryside, exploring back roads on your way from A to B and you come to a nice little village with a river running through it and a nice little restaurant with a terrace overlooking the river. Looks great, you decide to stop for lunch. So far so good suze?
You enjoy a lunch, watch the ducks and swans on the river, the sun is shining, you decide to have a second glass of wine after your meal and just enjoy the view. After a while you say to yourself, this is a nice little village and I'd like to stay here for the night. Stroll around the village, visit that little church I can see the steeple of from this terrace, etc. B will still be there tomorrow.
Now comes the 'pre-booked' problem. If you have a reservation at a hotel in B, what do you do suze?
Here's what I DID. I asked the restaurant owner if he could recommend a hotel in town. He told me there were two but he would only suggest one. He gave me the hotel name and directions. We drove over for a look.
The hotel looked fine from outside. Small(around 15 rooms) but surprise, surprise, the door was locked and no one to be found. Funny way to run a hotel I thought. So I drove back to the restaurant, spoke to the restaurant owner again and he laughed. 'Oh, I didn't think' he said, 'It's Sunday, Pierre will be at home, I'll call him for you'.
So we sat with another glass of wine and after about 10-15 minutes Pierre showed up. We introduced ourselves, I ordered a glass of wine for Pierre and we had a chat.
Regarding the hotel being closed, Pierre said, 'It's Sunday, I like to spend Sunday at home with my family just like anyone else. I realize someone might show up looking for a room but the money is not more important than my family.'
He told us the price of a room, gave us the entry code for the front door of the hotel, told us to pick any room with the key in the room door (which meant it was vacant and available) and he would see us in the morning at breakfast which was included. We chatted a bit more, he finished his wine and went back to his family.
We spent a lovely afternoon and evening in the village, had a great dinner back at the restaurant where the owner was by then speaking to us by name and had a good nights sleep in the hotel. The following morning, after breakfast we went to reception annd paid Pierre for the room.
Pierre had not had any ID from us, credit card info, etc. before giving us the entry code to his hotel. He had no way of knowing if we would steal, leave at 5am without paying our bill, etc. He simply met us, judged us worth trusting and that was that.
Sometimes, renting a room can be an actual memorable experience. People often say they want to experience the culture of a place, meet the people, get off the beaten path, etc. but do nothing that will make that happen. Nor is this example a one of. I can give you many more examples of where renting a room was part of the whole experience of travel.
But if your thinking is that 'you don't want to spend time looking for a place to sleep' as if it were a chore, what can I say? I can't think of more than a handful of times in thousands of nights of travel that finding a room was a chore. Most times it is a simple thing, a neutral if you will. But I can think of many times where it was actually a very worthwhile experience.
There is no way that pre-booking can match that.
May 4th, 2014, 02:29 PM
#30
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Now comes the 'pre-booked' problem. If you have a reservation at a hotel in B, what do you do suze?>
Lots of chain hotels like accorhotels.com will keep your room until 6 pm that day and if you cancel early like the night before cancel it at no charge.
I used to not pre-book and would spend a few hours in each town trying to find something.
OK for a veteran traveler but not for a novice so I vehemently disagree with you on this.
You can pre-book and guarantee a hotel room in your price range without obligating yourself often if you want to change plans - especially if from one Accor Hotel to another in town.
And I save tons of money by booking a hotel in my price range - often on the spot those may be booked up.
Lots of chain hotels like accorhotels.com will keep your room until 6 pm that day and if you cancel early like the night before cancel it at no charge.
I used to not pre-book and would spend a few hours in each town trying to find something.
OK for a veteran traveler but not for a novice so I vehemently disagree with you on this.
You can pre-book and guarantee a hotel room in your price range without obligating yourself often if you want to change plans - especially if from one Accor Hotel to another in town.
And I save tons of money by booking a hotel in my price range - often on the spot those may be booked up.
May 4th, 2014, 02:50 PM
#32
There is very good information on this thread before the "back and forth" got started and taken completely off-topic.
I've spent a lot of time specifically in Vevey and Montreux so know those my posts are accurate, applicable to the question, and hopefully helpful.
I've spent a lot of time specifically in Vevey and Montreux so know those my posts are accurate, applicable to the question, and hopefully helpful.
May 4th, 2014, 09:12 PM
#33
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I've spent over a year all told in Switzerland from one end to another. So if we are going by having 'spent a lot of time' somewhere then I guess my posts are accurate, applicable to the question and undoubtedly helpful for someone who wants to be helped.
PalenQ, you can pre-book and defend it all you want. It assumes of course that you know where you will be going. I rarely do know. I know where I am starting from and that's it.
Pre-booking means you are 'touring' as 'tourists' do. Whether you go on a package tour or plan your own tour it is still a tour. Winging it is a whole other world.
I don't know how else to explain it. You write, "spend a few hours in each town trying to find something."
I vehemently disagree with your use of the word 'spend', as if the time was wasted. Where was any time wasted in my example above? The time INVESTED in finding a room was a very interesting experience. Part of what we got out of that day, not a chore to be performed like work. It happened over lunch and a glass of wine. You might as well say you don't want to 'spend' time eating lunch.
As I wrote, I can think of a handful of times when it was like work but that has been rare. Far more often it has been like the example, an experience worth having.
I almost never go from hotel to hotel looking for a room. That would be a chore. I usually do something like the example, ask in a restaurant or bar. You can't really do that in major cities but then I rarely visit major cities, I prefer small towns and villages. It works almost every time in those places, anywhere in the world.
PalenQ, you can pre-book and defend it all you want. It assumes of course that you know where you will be going. I rarely do know. I know where I am starting from and that's it.
Pre-booking means you are 'touring' as 'tourists' do. Whether you go on a package tour or plan your own tour it is still a tour. Winging it is a whole other world.
I don't know how else to explain it. You write, "spend a few hours in each town trying to find something."
I vehemently disagree with your use of the word 'spend', as if the time was wasted. Where was any time wasted in my example above? The time INVESTED in finding a room was a very interesting experience. Part of what we got out of that day, not a chore to be performed like work. It happened over lunch and a glass of wine. You might as well say you don't want to 'spend' time eating lunch.
As I wrote, I can think of a handful of times when it was like work but that has been rare. Far more often it has been like the example, an experience worth having.
I almost never go from hotel to hotel looking for a room. That would be a chore. I usually do something like the example, ask in a restaurant or bar. You can't really do that in major cities but then I rarely visit major cities, I prefer small towns and villages. It works almost every time in those places, anywhere in the world.
May 5th, 2014, 04:39 AM
#34
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duc- for years I winged it and now with the Internets I am happy to pre-book - I always pre-book hotels that I can cancel without penalty even on the same day.
What's good for you is good for you but for the average tourist - try to wrap your head around that concept - they would much rather pre-book and just get off the train or out of the car and head to the hotel.
Wat's great for you may not be for the typical tourist.
What's good for you is good for you but for the average tourist - try to wrap your head around that concept - they would much rather pre-book and just get off the train or out of the car and head to the hotel.
Wat's great for you may not be for the typical tourist.
May 5th, 2014, 06:24 AM
#35
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I have no problem with anything other people do PalenQ. Everyone is obviously free to do as they please.
The issue is that posts like this one which are all about 'how many days in X' and are so numerous on every travel forum, all try to address a problem without realizing what the actual problem is.
The problem lies in pre-booking. It forces you to pick a number for each place without knowing in fact what the right number for YOU really is. Stop pre-booking and the issue goes away.
It is not about what's great for me. It's about people perceiving a problem and not realizing that they themselves have created the problem.
Here is the question people think they are asking. 'How many days should I allow for city X?' Now, how can anyone answer that question for them or how can they actually figure out the answer themselves?
In fact, no one can answer it and no one can figure it out beforehand. As you yourself say, some places are only worth one day TO YOU and for some YOU need a week. It all depends on YOUR interests.
Therefore, the only thing that actually makes any sense to me is to leave it open. Arrive, stay till you are ready to leave and then leave. If you do that, the problem of 'how many days to allow for X' simply doesn't exist.
You may perceive that that then gives rise to other problems like the endlessly repeated, 'what if I can't find a room' etc. I'll even concede for the sake of argument that such a problem may arise.
But the problem you came and asked for a solution to originally does NOT exist. Finding a room may be a NEW problem but the problem of how many days in X is gone.
The issue is that posts like this one which are all about 'how many days in X' and are so numerous on every travel forum, all try to address a problem without realizing what the actual problem is.
The problem lies in pre-booking. It forces you to pick a number for each place without knowing in fact what the right number for YOU really is. Stop pre-booking and the issue goes away.
It is not about what's great for me. It's about people perceiving a problem and not realizing that they themselves have created the problem.
Here is the question people think they are asking. 'How many days should I allow for city X?' Now, how can anyone answer that question for them or how can they actually figure out the answer themselves?
In fact, no one can answer it and no one can figure it out beforehand. As you yourself say, some places are only worth one day TO YOU and for some YOU need a week. It all depends on YOUR interests.
Therefore, the only thing that actually makes any sense to me is to leave it open. Arrive, stay till you are ready to leave and then leave. If you do that, the problem of 'how many days to allow for X' simply doesn't exist.
You may perceive that that then gives rise to other problems like the endlessly repeated, 'what if I can't find a room' etc. I'll even concede for the sake of argument that such a problem may arise.
But the problem you came and asked for a solution to originally does NOT exist. Finding a room may be a NEW problem but the problem of how many days in X is gone.
May 5th, 2014, 09:29 AM
#36
Can't you go argue somewhere else? Shan didn't ask anything about pre-booking or how long you think they should stay somewhere.
People are starting to post Europe questions in The Lounge forum, stating they are too afraid to come here and be condescended to and lectured by knowitalls.
People are starting to post Europe questions in The Lounge forum, stating they are too afraid to come here and be condescended to and lectured by knowitalls.
May 6th, 2014, 06:13 AM
#38
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As far as I am concerned, the comments I have made here are relevant to the OPs original question. I am not about to change what I think people should be aware of just to make you guys happy.
You don't own the forum. Disagree if you want, try to make a logical re-buttal if you want. But don't bother moaning.
You don't own the forum. Disagree if you want, try to make a logical re-buttal if you want. But don't bother moaning.
May 6th, 2014, 07:24 AM
#39
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I suggest several days in Luzern. That's within day-trip distance to Basel (train 1h), Pilatus, Zurich, Brienz (train 1:30), rail pass good for trip on lake, and you leave your luggage. If you are an outdoor family, you could take all the rest at Lauterbrunnen, as a base for a number of day trips. (Other posters here seem to prefer towns near Lauterbrunnen, but it's the only one I have stayed in.)
The Swiss Franc is insane at the moment. I hope you are prepared.
The Swiss Franc is insane at the moment. I hope you are prepared.
May 6th, 2014, 12:44 PM
#40
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As far as I am concerned, the comments I have made here are relevant to the OPs original question>
so you are telling them to wing it - just make a reservation for one night because they may not like the area - well in tourist season that may mean you cannot find anything at all cheap or easonable in this area - you can in Interlaken probably but not in the lauded for good reason hill towns - that advice could cost you plenty of time scurrying around looking for any place to stay and a lot more money in this expensive area than you want to spend.
Think of how many days you want to stay in each area and book in stone or else you'll spend a half a day and tons more money just to be able to find another place to stay if that is even possible at times.
That is if going to one of the Alpine wonderlands - in other Swiss cities probably not as much a problem relocating or extending your stay - so it depends on what type of place you are going and when.
so you are telling them to wing it - just make a reservation for one night because they may not like the area - well in tourist season that may mean you cannot find anything at all cheap or easonable in this area - you can in Interlaken probably but not in the lauded for good reason hill towns - that advice could cost you plenty of time scurrying around looking for any place to stay and a lot more money in this expensive area than you want to spend.
Think of how many days you want to stay in each area and book in stone or else you'll spend a half a day and tons more money just to be able to find another place to stay if that is even possible at times.
That is if going to one of the Alpine wonderlands - in other Swiss cities probably not as much a problem relocating or extending your stay - so it depends on what type of place you are going and when.
