RufusTFirefly

I guess it depends on how good you are with maps. At 9 euro a day a GPS would have cost us around $120 on our recent trip. Thinking of the three times that it would have come in handy on that trip and saved us perhaps 30 minutes total, at $240 per hour saved I think I would keep the money.

But someone else might could think it money well spent to avoid frustration while on vacation.

That's one of the nice things about money, excluding that which the government takes, you can decide what you want to do with yours that will give you the most pleasure or utility.

spinesrgn

I just returned from a trip to some rural areas of Italy. My GPS (Garmin) was extremely helpful. We don't mind getting lost at times but it was certainly comforting knowing we could always find our way.

pef1234

My navigator (my wife) is not good at map reading and I've spent a lot of frustrating time in years past trying to get from point A to point B! I bought a Garmin GPS and it was a great step in the right direction but it too, had its limitations such as having to load and unload maps frequently because of limited memory. I recently bought what is generally regarded as the new benchmark freestanding navigational GPS . . . the Tom-Tom 910. It has complete maps of the USA and Europe, plus a few others that I'll never use, preloaded. It 'speaks' in several languages with a whole list of various 'voices' as well as selected computer voices. I've preloaded several planned itineraries into the GPS and have done dry runs and have been blown away with what it can do. Bluetooth technology allows for playing back your MP3 music files (12 G free space!) through the car audio system. It is even possible to select from points of interest, such as restaurants, hotels, etc. and tell the GPS to connect you via cell phone, all hands free. For a nominal subscription fee you can have instant access to up-to-the-minute traffic and detour information as well as weather conditions.

I am totally amazed at the number and accuracy of the POIs preloaded into this GPS. I guess that being a product of PALM coming out of the Netherlands could have something to do with this.

If the Tom-Tom 910 works as well in Europe as it has so far here in the States I'll be able to leave my wife home from now on!

Budman

Looks like you have one of the top-of-the-line GPS systems. Most features you describe I would never use, so I wouldn't need to pay for them. But, they do work well in Europe.

They are great, but I must bring my wife -- the designated driver thingy.

JOE68

Thank you for all for the great posts. I think I may splurge the 8 euros a day for peace of mind. (It's vacation)I'll bring the maps too.

Larryincolorado

In my experience, the train engineers always know how to get to the desination. No navigation system needed. Just take the train and don't worry.

pef1234

Hey Larryincolorado, lighten up a little! The original inquiry was for help in choosing between a GPS or maps to navigate around Europe, not which mode of transportation is preferable. But as long as you bring it up . . . if you have traveled Europe strictly by train over the years you've deprived yourself of some wonderful opportunities OR have had to endure a variety of alternative modes of transport, schedules and luggage schlepping to get to some of the best places in Europe.

JOE68, stick to your intuition . . . get a car; don't be affraid to get off the beaten track (OR the train track). The total freedom to go and come at your own pleasure is well worth it. As for either maps or GPS . . . maps worked just fine for us in Europe over the years but the new generation GPS systems, to me, are a quantum leap forward.

Trains don't need maps or GPS because they can only go where the tracks go! Sorry Larryincolorado, the original poster has the right idea; don't sidetrack his pioneering enthusiasm and development!

logos999

You should visit the "control tower" on open day. Impessive there's a zillion ways to make a train go the wrong way. The engineer on board doesn't even know for sure on which platform he'll be arriving.

altamiro

>Trains don't need maps or GPS because they can only go where the tracks go!

With the train tracks going almost everywhere this is not a big problem

pef1234

>With the train tracks going almost everywhere this is not a big problem<

The operative word here is 'almost'. I would say that about 75% of the places we visit in Europe are no where near any train tracks; so it IS a big problem. I can get to anyplace where there are train tracks with a car but a train cannot get to most of the kinds of places we frequent without finding alternative modes of transport; which sometimes don't even exist!

lorikeet

Getting back to the first request for info on a nav system in Germany, I would really recommend it. No-one it seems has spoken about the benefits of finding a hotel easily while driving on the opposite side of the road (that you are used to). This is true of big cities and small where you may not be staying in the 'main drag'. We found the nav system invaluable.

Larryincolorado

pef,

I can’t speak for all of Europe as most of my 12 weeks of leisure travel have been in Germany. However, I can say that your assessment of travel, as it applies to Germany is incorrect, perhaps biased.

I have traveled all over southern Germany, picking my places not by accessibility to trains, but where I wanted to go. And with a modest ability to speak the language, I have felt free to go to many very “backwater” places. I have never found a place where I wanted to stay (80+ nights) that I could not get to by train. From these places I have traveled to many surrounding sights by train or by bus. For instance, I have on several occasions stayed for a week in a small town in the upper Allgäu and from there gone by train and/or bus to Oberstdorf, Kleinwalsertal, Lindau, Füssen, and Bolsterlang, to name a few places.

For the first four trips to Germany in this century, I saved enough by using rail instead of renting a car to completely pay for my fifth trip to Germany, including air fare to/from the U.S., twice over. Effectively, for what 8 weeks would have cost me by car, I will get nearly 12 weeks.

I recommend to anyone to first THOROUGHLY research where you want to go and what the options are with public transportation. Only if you can’t get to where you absolutely have to go, should you consider renting a car.

logos999

I don't have a car and I know there is a bus stop in almost every place, but I have experienced numerous week ends in the Allgäu and in Franken waiting at bus stations on sunday mornings to get home. I doubt, tourists go tho those places, but if they do sitting at a tiny bus stop "somewhere in the pampa" for 2 hours with nothing to do, they might consider hitchhiking. I remember my "sessions" at the bus stop as well as those parties when you have to leave before midnight because there are no more busses or trains before 7.30 am the next morning (And I'm talking about suburban Munich here)

Budman

Yes, you can probably go just about anywhere in Germany by taking trains and busses, but I think the optimum word is "convenience." I don't want to wait for 1-2 hours for the next train/bus. I don't want to cart my luggage on trams, busses, and thru trains stations. I like to getty up and go when I want to go. For me, the convenience outweighs any costs.

Tootsall

We just returned from 3 weeks in Bavaria. I drove a borrowed car from Bavaria to southern Switzerland and "around and about" in Bavaria. The large scale maps (available everywhere) are incredibly detailed; but you DO need a good "map-reading navigator" (it helps if they have some familiarity with the language... not for translation purposes but because they can more quickly identify what the signs MEAN) because there are so many signs and they come at you so fast you'll easily suffer from "information overload". But it can be done and isn't really all that difficult.

We also rode the trains... a family of four. They had a deal where, for 27 euro, you could buy a family day pass for the entire system (except for the high-speed, premiere trains). That works out to about $40 for 5 people or $8 per day each!... unlimited. And the train system has to be experienced to be believed. You can't buy these tickets from North America however but must get them locally....NOT a problem since any German airport also has a train station attached! (and the clerks can help because they almost all speak English...especially at the airports). And "Yes", the trains literally DO go everywhere...even little, two-bit villages 'out in the boonies'.

It's true that you will be stuck to the train schedules... but the time you save over driving (in most cases... Bavaria is a bit difficult since track routing is dictated by the mountain range orientation) and being able to look at the scenery instead of the bicycle you might be following pays for itself.

Gasoline was running 1.34 euro/litre in Germany, 1.17 in Austria and the equivalent (about 1.8) in Swiss Francs. That's another cost to consider when travelling by car.

Larryincolorado

Tootsall, the family day pass to which you refer is the "Bayern Ticket", and it is indeed a great deal. If you travel off the beaten path, all of the travel is by regional trains anyway. Even if there are express trains, they often take a different route which is no faster.

The Bayern Ticket costs €27 at ticket counters, but it is only €25, and probably faster, from a ticket automat. If you are in Bavaria, you can use the blue and off-white "Nahverkehr" automats. You select the Bayern Ticket with one of the buttons near the bottom of the two columns of button slightly right of center. You can also use one of the red, touch screen, Fernverkehr automats, which are in most stations. It is a bit more complicated, but you can select it to display in English.

tcreath

The car vs. train argument is a lost cause; some prefer trains, some prefer cars. There is no right or wrong answer. I prefer trains in some counties and cars in others, such as Germany. Go with what you are comfortable with.

I personally wouldn't feel the need to pay extra for the GPS in Germany. The roads are so easy to follow, and any good map would do just fine. We only had problems a few times, and figured them out pretty quickly. However, 9 euro per day is a good price, so if it makes you feel more comfortable go for it.

Tracy

logos999

>since any German airport also has a train station
Hamburg comes to mind first ;-)

Larryincolorado

Yeah, pick almost any airport in Germany that is served by RyanAir (Weeze, Hahn, Altenburg, Karlsruhe) and it is almost guaranteed not to have access by rail. Most of the rest will. I guess rail access to the airport is just one more thing to look for when flying into any country in Europe. You don’t want to fly into an airport without rail access.

Larryincolorado

So, now the optimal word is "convenience". Last week the optimal word was accessibility.

I guess convenience is in the mind of the beholder.

As for carting my luggage on buses and trams, as I said, I have always been able to get to my over night destination by train - no buses or trams, no inconvenience.

Second, since I am, for very good reasons, averse to checking luggage on flights, my one, regulation size and weight, carry-on bag is hardly an inconvenience.

On the other hand, I don't have to worry about watching the road instead of scenery while driving or finding a parking space or about my bags being stolen from my hatchback (the least expensive rental cars) when I do park.

Lastly, because I have done my research and know the schedules, I don't wait for 1-2 hours for trains or buses. I know when the train arrives and I am ready. My trips go like clockwork.

And I don't have to bring along maps or need an expensive GPS system to keep from getting lost. I don't have to worry about someone dinging my fender or taking off the side view mirror.

"Convenience" is just another excuse care renters use because they don't want to learn the schedules for public transportation. I have said all along that those who rent cars do so because they don't want to plan.

But, you can save so much money by not renting a car. Next spring, when I enjoy my second "free" trip to Germany, I will try to remember how inconvenient it is.