Naples or Genoa
Aug 31st, 2016, 11:42 AM
#42
Pal - isn't that the same as London compared to Manchester or Bristol?
it's funny though how the kind and friendly people of Naples turn into homicidal maniacs when they get behind the wheel of a vehicle!
it's funny though how the kind and friendly people of Naples turn into homicidal maniacs when they get behind the wheel of a vehicle!
Aug 31st, 2016, 12:29 PM
#43
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I don't know any non-neapolitans, even those who love the city, who would consider Naples to be the "real Italy". It's a city that has its own language, and its own culture. The music of Naples, and the Opera Buffa, are much loved in Italy, but it's still a charming, slightly exotic foreign country to most Italians.
Aug 31st, 2016, 01:21 PM
#45
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Naples isn't really the birthplace of "pizza", although the Neapolitan version with tomato sauce originated there. That was (I think) sometime in the 17th century, whereas earlier forms of pizza were known in Italy long before tomatoes arrived here. A popular early topping was pizza brushed with melted lard.
The name pizza is very ancient, and has cognates in all the countries around the Mediterranean. Pita, for example.
Where I live, the word pizza seems to have been a general word for bread. There is a "pizza di Pasqua" (Easter pizza) that's a cheese bread, not flat at all, in fact, very tall. There's another "pizza dolce" (sweet pizza) that's a bit like panettone.
I think the same is true of the Scots and Irish "scone". What people in the US call "Irish soda bread" was called "scone" by my Irish grandmothers. It's still used that way in the area where my family is from.
In both cases, a general word for bread came to mean a specific kind of bread.
In any case, my point was that Italians wouldn't consider Naples to be the "real Italy", as they recognize that it's a city much different from any other part of Italy.
The name pizza is very ancient, and has cognates in all the countries around the Mediterranean. Pita, for example.
Where I live, the word pizza seems to have been a general word for bread. There is a "pizza di Pasqua" (Easter pizza) that's a cheese bread, not flat at all, in fact, very tall. There's another "pizza dolce" (sweet pizza) that's a bit like panettone.
I think the same is true of the Scots and Irish "scone". What people in the US call "Irish soda bread" was called "scone" by my Irish grandmothers. It's still used that way in the area where my family is from.
In both cases, a general word for bread came to mean a specific kind of bread.
In any case, my point was that Italians wouldn't consider Naples to be the "real Italy", as they recognize that it's a city much different from any other part of Italy.
Aug 31st, 2016, 02:10 PM
#46
bvlenci - an interesting point about "real Italy". Where would such a place be?
Language vs Dialect is a difficult one, if only because, as I understand it, Modern Italian is pretty much "Florentine Dialect"
I can understand what you say aboot Naples, but the city seems far more my perception of Italian than e.g. Palermo.
The Sienese always boast that they are first members of their "Contrada" (The 17 historical divisions of the city), then Senese, and finally Italians.
I get the impression that Venetians get as far as three - Italy is something that happened to other people.
Language vs Dialect is a difficult one, if only because, as I understand it, Modern Italian is pretty much "Florentine Dialect"
I can understand what you say aboot Naples, but the city seems far more my perception of Italian than e.g. Palermo.
The Sienese always boast that they are first members of their "Contrada" (The 17 historical divisions of the city), then Senese, and finally Italians.
I get the impression that Venetians get as far as three - Italy is something that happened to other people.
Sep 4th, 2016, 08:19 AM
#50
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<i>My friend who has just returned from a trip to Italy, described Naples as "interesting" but said he was happy to leave after two days.</i>
<i>Oh come on, the place is a dump. Even Napolitans themselves hate it.</i>
The first statement implies that yours is a second hand impression of the city; the second one that you were there. So which is it?
<i>Oh come on, the place is a dump. Even Napolitans themselves hate it.</i>
The first statement implies that yours is a second hand impression of the city; the second one that you were there. So which is it?
Sep 4th, 2016, 09:56 AM
#51
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As someone who was just there, it is the furthest thing from a dump.
We have travelled extensively throughout Italy and Europe, and Naples is a place that stays with you long after you have left.
Fascinating, interesting, beautiful, real, warm and friendly. That is the Naples we came to love.
We have travelled extensively throughout Italy and Europe, and Naples is a place that stays with you long after you have left.
Fascinating, interesting, beautiful, real, warm and friendly. That is the Naples we came to love.
Sep 4th, 2016, 10:55 AM
#52
I suspect that Loacker, if he comes back at all, will be a little coy about whether he has any first hand experience of Naples.
I will happily admit that I found some of the completely unlit streets somewhat off-putting if not to say worrying, the traffic utterly murderous, and the graffiti off-putting [but you could say the same about the graffiti in Rome and Florence]
but all the people we met were very friendly and the NAM was brilliant.
Friends of ours made the mistake of staying in a hotel near the station and never went out at night because they were too frightened - but then, their style and experience of travel is such that had they asked me, I'd have advised them to stay in Sorrento and never step foot in Naples.
different strokes.....
I will happily admit that I found some of the completely unlit streets somewhat off-putting if not to say worrying, the traffic utterly murderous, and the graffiti off-putting [but you could say the same about the graffiti in Rome and Florence]
but all the people we met were very friendly and the NAM was brilliant.
Friends of ours made the mistake of staying in a hotel near the station and never went out at night because they were too frightened - but then, their style and experience of travel is such that had they asked me, I'd have advised them to stay in Sorrento and never step foot in Naples.
different strokes.....
Sep 4th, 2016, 10:56 AM
#53
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I don't need to travel to Naples to know it's a gritty and unsophisticated place, just like I don't have to travel to Mogadishu to know it's a hellhole.
Never underestimate the power of research.
Anyway, I'll pass by the city next summer on my way to the Amalfi Coast (out of curiosity) and will report back.
Never underestimate the power of research.
Anyway, I'll pass by the city next summer on my way to the Amalfi Coast (out of curiosity) and will report back.
Sep 4th, 2016, 10:59 AM
#54
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My friend reported that the city was very dirty. People don't bother throw their trash in the trash bins, although there's one on every corner. She raved about the pizza and hospitality of Neapolitans, though.
Sep 4th, 2016, 11:23 AM
#55
Never underestimate the power of research. >>
never over-estimate it either is just as valid.
IMO Naples could be described as gritty AND sophisticated, dirty AND hospitable, fascinating AND repellant.
The rubbish [trash to you] issue to do with the Carmora [mafia] and its dumping of toxic waste in and around Naples - a real italian-style scandal:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-a6794236.html
never over-estimate it either is just as valid.
IMO Naples could be described as gritty AND sophisticated, dirty AND hospitable, fascinating AND repellant.
The rubbish [trash to you] issue to do with the Carmora [mafia] and its dumping of toxic waste in and around Naples - a real italian-style scandal:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-a6794236.html
Sep 4th, 2016, 01:12 PM
#56
I suspect that somebody might, just, be looking to stir up a few "Billy Goats Gruff". Why else would you come on to a thread to disagree woith people who have actually been to a city because "one of my friends went there".
I seriously doubt Mogadishu has anything to rival Spaccanapoli, but as I've never visited, I cannot really judge.
I seriously doubt Mogadishu has anything to rival Spaccanapoli, but as I've never visited, I cannot really judge.
Sep 4th, 2016, 03:40 PM
#58
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Jmb67 if you mean very safe as in it's not a war zone then yes, Naples is pretty safe in that regards. But to say Naples is very safe is misleading. Petty theft and muggings are a real problem in Naples, and I wouldn't recommend tourists go out alone at night.
Sep 4th, 2016, 05:36 PM
#60
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<don't need to travel to Naples to know it's a gritty and unsophisticated place,>
Says a lot about your own lack of sophistication if you think a 3000 year old city with links to the Ancient Greeks, the Julio Claudians, the Bourbons and the Spanish Royal family has nothing to offer.
You base your judgement on hearsay and 'research' which will give you exactly what you are looking for.
Says a lot about your own lack of sophistication if you think a 3000 year old city with links to the Ancient Greeks, the Julio Claudians, the Bourbons and the Spanish Royal family has nothing to offer.
You base your judgement on hearsay and 'research' which will give you exactly what you are looking for.
