Hi sanderson---a lot of people have shown much concern for your situation and I can imagine you have been quite preoccupied. Can you, now that some time has gone by, give us an update?

We were mugged in a light way, no harm done, but pushing and blocking us, and one of them even had de nerve to talk to me a few words when I shouted QUE PASA ??so technically may be it was not a 100% mugging, but it happened a Sunday morning ( March 4 th.,2007)about noon in Plaza de Alonso Martinez where we where passing by and decided, our bad luck, to take the subway.
These were young guys about 20 to 30 or more, well dressed, I speak several Latin languages and my guessing is they were Rumanians but who knows...I wonder if Plaza Alonso Martinez is some
well know place for this kind of robbery. Or it was our bad luck. They did not take too much but it was very distresing, it made us feel like total fools, a lot of frustration. Thanks God we were unharmed.

t

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Question -- does anybody on this board know what country has just about the lowest crime rate in Europe??

Clue: Not Spain, not Italy, not France.

one would think that this is a trick question so throw out the usual suspects Scandinavian countries and Switzerland.

Luxembourg?

Portugal?

I vote Switzerland.

Malta

Greece?

I would imagine Iceland, Norway or Sweden.

Sweden?????

The Prime Minister was shot while walking home in the streets in Stockholm. And what was the name of that woman who was trying to win the Swedish elections. She was stabbed in the NK store in Stockholm. Stabbed and killed.

Blackduff

Finland??

YOu're right, it's Greece. You can look it up. Now I'm not saying that Greek moguls don't have a knack for Biggie stuff -- involving fleets of ships and stuff.

But as several learned studies have shown (and more informally, numerous Greeks have explained to me spontaneously), the Greeks do not have a culture of petty theft. And (except for some storied feuds in Crete) armed violence is ancient history.

There are stories galore of people chasing you for blocks to give you a wallet you dropped. I myself have some similar tales.

Of course there are theft/pickpocket incidents in Athens--but the Greeks ther are struggling with an influx of illegal & poverty-stricken Albanians, who account alas for a lot of problems.

On the islands, any theft mainly occurs in high season & most suspects are other tourists.

One Islander said to me wryly, "and why would someone try to steal something valuable? It's reported, and the first thing, the POrts would be alerted. No point! And here everyone knows who owns what... as I say, no point"

Of course, people should be prudent everywhere. But as a woman alone I have walked In Athens Plaka many times very late at night without fear. And the kind of horror stories about purse- snatchers on scooters elsewhere is just not heard of in Greek cities.

northshore - i always feel bad when people assume a place is to be avoided because of a mishap.

An interesting place to compare international statistics for things like this is www.nationmaster.com. For example, you can see comparisons of robbery rates for various countries by clicking on http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cr...ies-per-capita. If you do so, you'll note that Spain not only has the highest per capita robbery rate of any of the 64 countries listed, but its rate is almost twice as high as that of its nearest, well, competitor, as it were. Sure enough, Greece is the lowest European country on the list, if you don't count Turkey.

I think statistics such as those on this website should be taken with a big grain of salt. For example, reported robbery rates are likely to be artifactually low in countries where people don't believe in the effectiveness of law enforcement authorities, and don't report robberies. Murder rates may be lower in some countries, not because people aren't trying to commit murder, but because advanced health care systems are able to save some victims who might otherwise die. Saudi Arabia has the lowest rate of rape, probably because the very notion of rape doesn't really exist as such there. Rates of illicit drug offenses might be lower in some countries simply because fewer drugs are illegal there.

Anyway, it's an interesting site to waste a little time on.

<i>Saudi Arabia has the lowest rate of rape, probably because the very notion of rape doesn't really exist as such there.</i>

No. Rape does exist. However, it's the woman who have to keep quiet and not report it - thus a very low rate. Women are invariably the one to be blamed and often is considered a shame to the family. It's a very different culture.

Agreed, and I apologize if I implied otherwise. In Saudi Arabia, an unmarried woman who is raped, or a woman who is raped by a man other than her husband, is considered not only to be a source of shame for her family, but also to have committed the crime of adultery, and she may be lashed or even stoned to death for that crime. If a man rapes one of his wives (up to four are permitted), he is considered to be within his rights as a husband. Indeed, Saudi imams both inside and outside the Kingdom often counsel men on the best techniques for beating their wives so as ensure compliance, but without so injuring their wives that they are unable to perform required duties.

Again, I apologize if I implied that rape doesn't exist in Saudi Arabia. I meant only that the notion of rape as a crime doesn't exist there as it's known in many other countries, so comparing statistics about its incidence isn't really meaningful. In general, I think there's sufficient cultural diversity in the world to make comparisons of the rates of a variety of crimes somewhat difficult.

For example, nationmaster appears to list rates of embezzlement in different countries. I suppose that the very notion of embezzlement would be very different in a country in which all businesses are considered to be the rightful property of a totalitarian government.

ccc

I will be in Madrid in 10 days and have reservations at Hotel Europa on the Puerta del Sol. Should I be thinking of changing hotels? If so, where should I consider staying?