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Mother/daughter trip - How's our itinerary, please?

Mother/daughter trip - How's our itinerary, please?

Old Mar 25th, 2023, 04:54 AM
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Mother/daughter trip - How's our itinerary, please?

Hi, all! Just trying to get a prelim itinerary down on paper for our upcoming September trip and I welcome all suggestions/critiques. Aside from hotel and flights, nothing else has been/can be booked yet. (Some of this includes extra notes, more to remind us of specifics; please ignore those.) Sorry if this turns into a novel!

Bit of background: this is a mother/(adult) daughter trip, a realization (finally) of a trip we were supposed to take in March 2020, but did not get to do. It is a reworked itinerary but still keeps many of the sites we originally wanted to see. We have visited London before, as a family, in 2017, so itís not entirely unfamiliar to us.

Our itinerary may seem busy, but not to us. While we plan to see a lot, nothing will be a quick stop just to tick off a box; we are willing to cut out things if needed. I have the most important site first each day, and we love getting to a site just as it opens each morning, for the fewest crowds. I have tried to group our attractions close each day, but this wasnít always possible. Also, for the most part, I picked one attraction in the morning and one in the afternoon. If we have free time, we want to just wander, or chill in one of the parks in the city.

Restaurants listed are ones Iíve come across so far and liked the sound of. Our list is ongoing, and Iím sure we will keep adding to it, up to the day we leave for London. We are big fans of pub grub, especially pates, pies, fish/chips and sticky puddings. Also cheese and charcuterie. Any favorite restaurant suggestions you have would be welcome. Not as fond of Indian food, but willing to try. Also, we would love to find a Japanese restaurant that offers motsunabe (hot pot), as we tried it in NYC and loved it. (Not sure if thatís a thing in London or not.)

Thanks in advance for any and all advice!
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Old Mar 25th, 2023, 04:57 AM
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Day 1 - Tues, Sept 12
-arrive Heathrow/9:30a; customs/luggage; shower/breakfast in arrivals lounge
-Picadilly line to Kensington hotel (Park City Grand Plaza ); check in or leave luggage
-Borough Market for late lunch/shopping (starts to close 16/16:30)
-possibly tour Old Operating Theater or All Hallows Church (both close 17:00)
-supper: later, Devonshire Arms, Kensington

Day 2 - Wed, Sept 13
-breakfast possibilities Cafe Nero, Over Under Coffee, Pret Earlís Court tube
Tower of London; buy tix at site at 9:10-ish, crown jewels then Beefeater tour; use 2FOR1, voucher reqíd)
-possibly visit Tower Bridge (2FOR1, advance booking)
-lunch: Town of Ramsgate pub
-Imperial War Museum (10-18:00)
-supper: Pick & Cheese (Seven Dials Market); £10 to reserve

Day 3 - Thurs, Sept 14
-brkfst:
-Audley End House; (2FOR1, paper voucher)
-Earlís Court to Victoria (District line) to Tottenham Hale (Victoria Line) ; TH to AE on Nat Rail (9:58-11:30, for off-peak); taxi to/from; lunch on site
-London Transport Museum, if time, closes 18:00 (2FOR1, paper voucher) -supper: Doggettís Coat & Badge, then wander area for nighttime photos

Day 4 - Fri, Sept 15 -
-brkfst:-Westminster Abbey: pre-book Hidden Highlights tour; sign up for verger tour on site
-lunch:Two Chairmen pub, opens noon
-rest at hotel if needed or visit parks
-V & A Museum (later night, 10-22:00); supper at museum (reserve); see ďRe:Imagining MusicalsĒ exhibit

Day 5 - Sat, Sept 16
-brkfst: Speedyís Sandwich Bar (Sherlock)
-British Museum; reserve tea upon entering, for later lunch, 13:00-ish
-possibly visit Library treasures room (9:30-20:00)
-supper:Happy Lamb, Holburn
-walks.com walking tour (19:30-21:30); Ghosts of the Old City

[img]blob:https://www.fodors.com/194aa252-2673-43f1-b7cd-03112b9da2ca[/img]Day 6 - Sun, Sept 17
-breakfast: at hotel?
-Natíl History Museum (10-17:30)
-lunch:
-Museum of London Docklands (10-17:00)
-supper: : Ivy Kensington Brasserie or the Hereford Arms
-London Eye (daughterís request, 10-20:30): 2FOR1/advance booking; more night pix

Day 7 - Mon., Sept 18
-brkfst:-St. Paulís cathedral; pre-book Triforium tour
-late lunch:
-possibly Temple Church; check for special events closer to trip
-possibly library treasures room, if not earlier
-supper:
-Tower: Ceremony of the Keys; reserve starting Aug. 1 (no guarantees, I know)

Day 8 - Tues, Sept 19
-brkfst:
-Greenwich: Maritime Museum, Royal Observ, Meridian, maybe Cutty Sark
-Earlís Court to Embankment, take Uber boat/Thames Clipper to N. Greenwich
-go two zones, travel 8:57-9:39, attractions open at 10a; return?
-lunch in Greenwich:
-maybe City Cruises ship back?/flex tix; 14:50 or 15:30, to Westminster or London Eye
-supper: the Ivy Market Grill (Covent Garden)
-theater: possibly the Play That Goes Wrong

Day 9 - Wed., Sept 20
-brkfst:
-postal museum/mail rail; site advises pre-booking/non-refundable
-lunch:
-London Mithraeum
-Leadenhall Market; supper: Lucís Brasserie

Day 10 - Thurs., Sept 21
-brkfst:
-Spitalfields Antique Market early
-maybe Globe Theater Tour (2FOR1; advance booking)
-lunch: in town early or at airport departure lounge -leave by noon, to get to airport by 1p; flight out at 4p
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Old Mar 25th, 2023, 05:03 AM
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Please read this one, not the other one

I know this is a duplicate post and hopefully, my other identical post will be closed. I sent a request for it to be done. When I created my first one, I meant to put it in the UK section, but it ended up in the general Europe section. So I created this one for the UK section. Sorry for any confusion.
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Old Mar 25th, 2023, 05:35 AM
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What a trip you two have planned! London experts will offer sage advice, but what jumps out at me is the use of 2FOR1 vouchers - I don’t see a qualifying train journey in your itinerary?
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Old Mar 25th, 2023, 05:36 AM
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Just quick -- its very early here so I'll read over your itinerary after my first cup of coffee

But you didn't need to start a new thread. There is no 'United Kingdom Section'. Just a big Europe forum. All threads are lumped together whether they have tags or not. When we forget to include a country tag we can triangle the thread and ask them to add one(s). This is one of the things we can't edit ourselves which I wish we could.
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Old Mar 25th, 2023, 05:54 AM
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Nyse - yes, I know. I can PM you (can I do that on this forum?) with how we're doing 2FOR1 if you're interested. It's not something I'd rather get into here. Fingers crossed nothing derails this trip!

Janis - thanks. I did try and submit a message on the help forum, but didn't want to waste time trying to get a response. When I was doing research initially, I used the UK part of the forum/tag exclusively, and because it didn't show up my first go around, I didn't want people potentially not seeing it. Good to know how it works!
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Old Mar 25th, 2023, 06:29 AM
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Originally Posted by scraphappylady1 View Post
Janis - thanks. I did try and submit a message on the help forum, but didn't want to waste time trying to get a response. When I was doing research initially, I used the UK part of the forum/tag exclusively, and because it didn't show up my first go around, I didn't want people potentially not seeing it. Good to know how it works!
OK -- I'm now fully awake and both eyes are open. . Maybe my post wasn't clear. Everyone who is looking at the Europe forum can see your threads (Both of them) there is no "UK part". Right now this thread is at the top of the Europe Forum and your other one is #3. Anyone seeing ths thread will see the other one. The tags are just there so if you want to search for a particular country you can. If this happens again, just use the orange triangle. So now on to reading your itinerary.
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Old Mar 25th, 2023, 06:37 AM
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[QUOTE=scraphappylady1;17449512]Nyse - yes, I know. I can PM you (can I do that on this forum?) with how we're doing 2FOR1 if you're interested. It's not something I'd rather get into here. Fingers crossed nothing derails this trip!

No, it sounds like it’s on a ‘need to know’ basis.…Glad your trip will stay on track.

Last edited by nyse; Mar 25th, 2023 at 06:41 AM.
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Old Mar 25th, 2023, 07:11 AM
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Day 1 -- isn't there something closer you'd want to see/do a bit more convenient to Gloucester Rd/your hotel than Borough Market/ Old Operating Theater or All Hallows Church? These would fit better on day 2 after the Tower. I personally wouldn't do the 'Tower Bridge Experience' It takes a fair amount of time and just because one can get a 2for1 doesn't necessarily make it worthwhile.

Day 2 - If left as is this day is all over the place. Out east to the Tower, then south of Lambeth to the IWM, then north of Covent Garden to Seven Dials.

Same with Day 3. I honestly can't see combining Audley End in Saffron Walden with the LT Museum in Covent Garden. Whether you take the route you mentioned or from Liverpool Street to Audley End it will be at least a 90 minute journey. So best case - getting there by 11:30. You likely won't be leaving AE until at least 3:30 or 4PM and then 90 minute journey back into central London. I'd move the LT Museum to a day when you are in the general Covent Garden/Trafalgar Sq area.

Days 4 & 5 look great

Day 6 - I'd totally re-think The Natural History Museum and Docklands Museum could hardly be farther apart. Maybe look are rearranging thins so the V&A and Natural History are on the same day since they are across the street from each other and both are walking distance from your hotel.

Days 7, 8 & 9 look OK -- hopefully you can get C-o-t-K tickets but if not maybe plan another play that evening.

Day 10 really doesn't work. You want to go to Spittalfields Market or the Globe before an afternoon flight?? That would mean checking out, leaving your bags traveling across town, then back across town to the hotel to retrieve bags, then out to LHR. I'd maybe just have a leisurely breakfast, then take a nice walk through Hyde Park/Kens Gardens and call it a day.
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Old Mar 25th, 2023, 07:17 AM
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We deleted the duplicate thread.
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Old Mar 25th, 2023, 07:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Moderator1 View Post
We deleted the duplicate thread.
Thank you, that was very very confusing
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Old Mar 25th, 2023, 09:43 AM
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Moderator,
ĎThanks. I just wish there was a way I could have done it myself.
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Old Mar 25th, 2023, 09:59 AM
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janis,

Thanks for your detailed reply! (Now my novel of a reply in return) I think you can see from the answers you gave me, just how it was a struggle for me to put even this itinerary together thus far! The main problems I ran into - sights that close early (5p is early to me), werenít open for touring certain days (Westminster, and Iím guessing St. Paulís too, on Sundays - as it should be - for example), and restaurants that only offered what we wanted on certain days. (More on that below.) Plus, even when a museum is open late - itís all on the same day (Brit Museum, V&A)!!!! I guess because itís going into a weekend?

And I do want to mention, we love public transit. As we really have none near us, its fun to us; a bit of an attraction in itself. I can see how those who live with it every day or visit often might disagree; but imagine what we encounter when we go into the closest bigger town near us: drive in, fight traffic, find a garage, pay to park, take an Uber around town. To us, such large-scale public transit -whether in NYC, London, etc. - is awesome. We donít mind going 1/2 hour or more to get between places. For world-class sites and a wealth of restaurant choices at our fingertips? I'll travel a bit further each day. Just call it built in down time between attractions.

In response:
Day 1 - we very much do want to go to Borough Market; I was planning on at least two to three hours there, just meandering. While we do have a similar market that we love near us in Philadelphia, Borough Market definitely sounds like one for the books. Probably five to ten times the size of ours. We canít wait! And moving is definitely what we want to be doing our first day, to fight jet lag. The other two were in case we needed more to do. I like to have a list of possibilities (I did say ďpossiblyĒ)

Day 2 - I thought this day was fairly spaced out. Leaving out the Bridge for a moment (we were iffy on it), I was envisioning Tower 9-12:30, lunch til 2, transit 1/2 hour, IWM 2:30-6 (assuming we like it; weíre not sure if we will or not), transit 1/2 hour and supper around 8p. Does this really seem so busy? As for the Tower Bridge, yeah, that was a maybe all along. It doesnít seem to get much respect, so weíll make it a maybe for sure. As for the supper restaurant and its location - this is one where the menu we want is only offered on Wednesdays. I wanted to list it for our first Wed., so that we would have another try the following week, if we were unable to get reservations. Hence, the out-of-the way travel there.

Day 3-Yes, I did mention getting to AE by 11:30 on Nat Rail. I know itís a long day. The Transit Museum interested us simply because we visited the one in NYC and really liked it. Itís ok for us to skip if need be. If you had to insert it on another day, keeping my itinerary the same, where would you put it specifically? (as it closes at 6p)

Day 6 - Again, I didnít consider this a busy day. More travel, but I explained that. As I see it: NHM at opening 10-1, lunch 1-2:30, transit 30-40 min, Docklands 3:15 -5. Perhaps we could switch the two around, as NHM closes half an hour later. I originally thought the Museum of London was closed for the next three years and it was only recently that I saw that there were two separate MoL places. This day seemed a good place to slot it in, as I donít think the MoL will take too long. Iím glad you pointed out about the London Eye though. Initially, I had us eating supper at the end of the evening, because it was closer to our hotel. As I was swapping things around, it got mixed up. We would do LE first, as it is a bit closer to both museums.

It might be a bit tricky to reserve another show so close to our trip, as the CoK itself doesnít seem to take reservations until much closer, but we were considering Les Mis, too. Personally, Iíd love to see Come From Away again, but it doesnít seem to be playing when weíre there. (I used londontheatre.co.uk to check)

Day 10-this dayís schedule was based on the fact that Spitalfields antique market is only open on Thursdays and opens at 8a. After reviewing it, I do agree the Globe is a bit much to fit in, but I think Spitalfields is definitely doable, especially if we eat lunch in the departure lounge at the airport (United Polaris). I figure three-ish hours to shop, back to the hotel to collect luggage (we plan on leaving space in the bags to stash any treasure found), off to the airport by noon, get there by one and flight leaves at 4. Do you think it would take longer than an hour to get back to Heathrow from Earlís Court on a Thursday around noon? We can relax on the plane ride home.

Again, I appreciate all your comments!! If you have any restaurant reccs, weíd love to hear them, especially breakfast places!
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Old Mar 25th, 2023, 10:29 AM
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Just a few comments for now

• re Borough Market. If you really (REALLY) want to explore the 'Market' as opposed to just having a meal and visiting some brick and mortar shops -- then you will want to visit on a Thurs, Fri or Sat. Thurs would be best because Fri and Sat can be a real zoo.

• I get it about public transport -- really I do. But you will be on public transport of one sort or another several times every day no matter where/whet you are visiting. There is no reason to build in these longer, more complicated, inconvenient journeys just to enjoy public transit.

• "It might be a bit tricky to reserve another show so close to our trip, as the CoK itself doesn’t seem to take reservations until much closer,"

That is not a problem in any way. About half the shows I attend I book in advance and half not until the day before or even the hour before curtain.

• I'd personally never ever plan something across town -- and especially on a weekday morning -- all it takes is a tube line fault (happens every day on one line or another. And if a line goes down or has delays then every bloke in London will be looking for a cab and you'll have a devil of a time getting back to the hotel and/or airport. Other days you could do a work around or change plans. But missing a flight because you wanted to squeeze in some extra sightseeing ???
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Old Mar 25th, 2023, 10:39 AM
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Oh -- re the Ceremony of the Keys. Good luck getting tickets but definitely don't have you heart set on it. The odds against are extremely long. I've been probably a dozen times but the last time was a decade ago. Since they went all 21st Century on us and doing it by on-line lottery it is nearly impossible. In the 'old days' it was a difficult process with snail mail, international reply coupons, a range of dates, etc. So that cut out all the casual punters. One really really had to want to attend to jump through the hoops. Now it is too easy so thousands of people apply for every single slot.

But as I said, waiting until you get a negative response from the Tower wouldn't in any way prevent you from going to the theatre that night.
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Old Mar 25th, 2023, 11:13 AM
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Again, thank you for your comments.

-Should I assume from your response on Borough Market, that on a Tuesday afternoon in September, many of the shops will be closed? If not, I'm curious why it wouldn't be a good day to visit/meander? I think the less crowded the better, which was one of the reasons I deliberately chose NOT to go on the weekend.
-As for public transport, I'm not placing these attractions the way I did I did simply to use the Tube. We just don't mind it. Imo, the sites fit well for time -usually one in the am, one in the pm, many not an all day event - allowing us the maximum amount of time to visit each without doing just a simple walk through. While I admit I did ask for critiques, and I respect your opinion, and honestly do appreciate the time you've taken so far on these posts, I'd also love to get your suggestion on a different general itinerary, using my list of places, limitations and estimated time allotments. I've heard others say, few will take the time to offer alternative (even if simplified) versions of a full itinerary and it really would be interesting to me to see how you'd fit it all in.
-As for shows, I guess I'm too used to Broadway. We usually try to get the equivalent of orchestra level, on an aisle, for our shows. In order to get the tix we want, we usually book them several months in advance. Now it does seem that the shows we have seen recently have been of higher demand (Hamilton, Phantom - to see it before it closed, Music Man, etc.) So its good to know that in London, those seats for the ones we were interested in most likely would be available later into August.

And I didn't realize the CoK was a lottery. I thought that, like other attractions, you could simply log on the first day they were offered and if you were close enough to the top of the queue, you could get them. Sounds worse than my son trying to get Penn State football tickets on his allotted day to order!

Last edited by scraphappylady1; Mar 25th, 2023 at 11:28 AM.
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Old Mar 25th, 2023, 11:35 AM
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Borough Market is a Market . . . i.e. stalls. There are brick and mortar shops like in other neighborhoods - and many of these stores are open daily. But the main 'market' - the reason most want to visit, is to explore the market stalls. Most of the market stalls are open either Thurs - Sat, or Wed - Sat.

The Keys Ceremony isn't technically a 'Lottery' but the result is about the same. Since every one on God's Green Earth jumps on line the instant tickets become available. Sort of like a Taylor Swift concert

I get it -- you like the tube. But it makes much more sense IME/IMO to group things sort of geographically either near each other or with easy transit connections so one doesn't spend extra hours just riding around.
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Old Mar 26th, 2023, 01:52 AM
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janisj is very good at London (well the UK but hey), as a Brit I would always refer to her experience to visit London.

The "tube" ( covers underground and overground but not rest of the country's train network) is pretty old and big so it does go wrong and you will want to download an app to check routes etc which can, sometimes, change day to day. You also need to listen out to announcements once on a station or train.

I'd lump geographical close things to the same day as rush hour can be a real pain and I once had to reunite a US child left in a carriage by a forgetful US couple and that was a bit fraught.
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Old Mar 27th, 2023, 04:28 AM
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Based on feedback here, I took a few minutes this morning to re-work our itinerary. Most days now feel more crowded, but I guess we have to accept that to keep things closer. And I still couldnít do anything about travel time from our hotel. Short of changing hotels, which we wonít do, I donít know how to reduce these longer Tube trips. Then again, Iíve read how there really is no real ďcentralĒ hotel location for all of the attractions.

I would still like to add the London Transport Museum and the same for the Museum of London Docklands, into the itinerary somewhere. But Iíve come to the realization that the MoL would probably be considered a day trip all by itself (similar to Greenwich), since it is much further away from the other sites. Not much to pair it with.

And I left our arrival day free. Janis, you suggested visiting someplace close to our hotel; can you offer a few suggestions, that would keep us moving yet not require too much thought after a long flight? I figure we will have about eight or nine hours, including lunch/supper.



Day 1 - Tues., Sept 12

-arrive 9:29a, customs, luggage; shower and breakfast in arrivals lounge
????
-supper: Devonshire Arms


Day 2 - Wed, Sept 13

-St. Paulís Cathedral; opens 8:30a; Triforium tour 12:30-1:30p

-lunch: grab, eat and walk

-Temple Church (10-4; £5)

-Pick & Cheese



Day 3 - Thurs, Sept 14

-Spitalfields antique market (open 8a)

-postal museum/mail rail (10-3:30p)

-London Mithreum (10-6)

-Leadenhall Mkt; supper: Lucís Brasserie

-Ceremony of the Keys?



Day 4 - Frid, Sept 15

-National History Museum (10-6)

-V&A (10-10), supper here

-huge day so need some sort of downtime in between sites



Day 5 - Sat, Sept 16

-Tower of London (estimating 9a-12/1p)

-Borough Market (2-3 hours)

-All Hallows Church (closes at 5)

-Old Operating Theater (10:30-5)

-walking tour (7:30-9:30p)



Day 6 - Sun, Sept 17

-Greenwich



Day 7 - Mon, Sept 18

-brkfst: Speedyís

-British Museum (10-5)

-British Library treasures (9:30-8)

-supper: Happy Lamb



Day 8 - Tues, Sept 19

-Westminster Abbey (9:30-3:30) verger tour; Hidden Highlights tour 12:15-1:30

-Imperial War Museum (10-6)

-London Eye (11-6)



Day 9 - Wed, Sept 20

-Audley End

-theater



Day 10 - Thurs, Sept 21

-??
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Old Mar 27th, 2023, 06:12 AM
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Now several of your days are really quite light -- and I don't recommend cramming tons of sites. But IME you actually have time for more.

Just a couple of quick comments since I have some things to tend to this morning.

• The Museum of London Docklands is very (VERY) doable combined with a visit to Greenwich. A couple of hours at the Museum then the rest of the day exploring Greenwich couldn't be easier. Canary Wharf and the Cutty Sark are connected via the DLR.

• Day 2 you only have St Paul's and Temple Church. This is a very light day. Temple Church is interesting but wouldn't take all that long.

• Your mention Day 4 being a 'huge' day. Not IMO. Unless you have a great deal of interest in the Natural History museum (and can stand the massive crowds of school groups) I doubt you'll spend more then 90 mins or 2 hours in the NHM.

• You certainly could fit in something else on Day 7 and probably Day 8.
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