More over tourism in The Netherlands
Nov 13th, 2018, 12:31 PM
#41
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<Observation on the posts:
Oh my the experts have come out onto this forum and given there suggestions on how to solve this situation. They know nothing about the locals, nothing about the workings of the country, nothing about the "mentality" of the country.
One poster remains calm in an adverse situation and explains things.>
Sorry I misinterpreted this as criticism. I guess your definition of that and mine differ?
Oh my the experts have come out onto this forum and given there suggestions on how to solve this situation. They know nothing about the locals, nothing about the workings of the country, nothing about the "mentality" of the country.
One poster remains calm in an adverse situation and explains things.>
Sorry I misinterpreted this as criticism. I guess your definition of that and mine differ?
Nov 13th, 2018, 08:42 PM
#42
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What, off tour itineraries? Or off tourist website/pamphlet “recommended” itineraries? I could see the first one through limiting access to the site, but the second doesn’t seem achievable.
It seems odd to discourage the production of the “off the beaten path” tip lists on a forum that routinely agonizes over people NOT going off the beaten path.
It seems odd to discourage the production of the “off the beaten path” tip lists on a forum that routinely agonizes over people NOT going off the beaten path.
Nov 13th, 2018, 09:42 PM
#44
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Yes exactly. However, the roads through the Waard at Kinderdijk are public. Hence the idea to make it private and charge an entrance fee. It makes it even worse imo: a piece of public property, paid for by taxpayer's money appropriated by the tourism industry. Crazy.
Nov 13th, 2018, 10:08 PM
#45
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How Zeedijk N.V. has been doing it:
https://www.citylab.com/life/2018/11...source=twitter
https://www.citylab.com/life/2018/11...source=twitter
Nov 13th, 2018, 10:31 PM
#46
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Visitors would need to buy timed tickets in advance while the few dozen residents and their visitors could be given free and unrestricted access.
Nov 14th, 2018, 12:22 AM
#47
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<Observation on the posts:
Oh my the experts have come out onto this forum and given there suggestions on how to solve this situation. They know nothing about the locals, nothing about the workings of the country, nothing about the "mentality" of the country.
One poster remains calm in an adverse situation and explains things.>
Sorry I misinterpreted this as criticism. I guess your definition of that and mine differ?
Oh my the experts have come out onto this forum and given there suggestions on how to solve this situation. They know nothing about the locals, nothing about the workings of the country, nothing about the "mentality" of the country.
One poster remains calm in an adverse situation and explains things.>
Sorry I misinterpreted this as criticism. I guess your definition of that and mine differ?
Going back to my original statement, I used the word observation.
Definition.
Nov 14th, 2018, 12:25 AM
#48
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Cowboy:
That cannot be done under EU regulations. It has been tried before but rulings have come down from the highest courts it is a no go.
Visitors would need to buy timed tickets in advance while the few dozen residents and their visitors could be given free and unrestricted access.
Nov 14th, 2018, 05:18 AM
#50
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It is illegal under the principles of the common market to discriminate in favor of or against anyone based on citizenship. So it would be illegal to allow Dutch citizens to enter for free, and make everyone else pay.
But it's both allowed and common to give local residents (regardless of their citizenship) advantages or discounts.
The examples are endless - from discounts for intra-islands flights on the Canary Islands to cable cars in the Alps.
Or free resident parking permits vs. paid parking or no parking permission at all for anyone else.
It's not a carte blanche to discriminate in any way you like - but the Kinderdijk residents would be pretty much a model case.
But it's both allowed and common to give local residents (regardless of their citizenship) advantages or discounts.
The examples are endless - from discounts for intra-islands flights on the Canary Islands to cable cars in the Alps.
Or free resident parking permits vs. paid parking or no parking permission at all for anyone else.
It's not a carte blanche to discriminate in any way you like - but the Kinderdijk residents would be pretty much a model case.
Nov 14th, 2018, 07:13 AM
#52
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It is illegal under the principles of the common market to discriminate in favor of or against anyone based on citizenship. So it would be illegal to allow Dutch citizens to enter for free, and make everyone else pay.
But it's both allowed and common to give local residents (regardless of their citizenship) advantages or discounts.
The examples are endless - from discounts for intra-islands flights on the Canary Islands to cable cars in the Alps.
Or free resident parking permits vs. paid parking or no parking permission at all for anyone else.
It's not a carte blanche to discriminate in any way you like - but the Kinderdijk residents would be pretty much a model case.
But it's both allowed and common to give local residents (regardless of their citizenship) advantages or discounts.
The examples are endless - from discounts for intra-islands flights on the Canary Islands to cable cars in the Alps.
Or free resident parking permits vs. paid parking or no parking permission at all for anyone else.
It's not a carte blanche to discriminate in any way you like - but the Kinderdijk residents would be pretty much a model case.
This is the through road, the Middenwaard, that we're discussing
Nov 14th, 2018, 07:39 AM
#53
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That's how I understood it.
There is public access via a public road. Which also leads to "ticket evasion" as no ticket is required to just walk or cycle around and look at the windmills.
That road needs to be gated and access restricted to pedestrians or cyclists which either have a valid ticket, a "free pass" if they are residents, or a free day pass when they are registered as guests of the residents or have any business to take care of for the residents.
This is not exactly rocket science and will ensure that at any time there will only be the allowed number of people in the whole zone.
I assume that it won't be the first time in the history of the Netherlands that one formerly unstricted right of way is turned into a restricted access.
There is public access via a public road. Which also leads to "ticket evasion" as no ticket is required to just walk or cycle around and look at the windmills.
That road needs to be gated and access restricted to pedestrians or cyclists which either have a valid ticket, a "free pass" if they are residents, or a free day pass when they are registered as guests of the residents or have any business to take care of for the residents.
This is not exactly rocket science and will ensure that at any time there will only be the allowed number of people in the whole zone.
I assume that it won't be the first time in the history of the Netherlands that one formerly unstricted right of way is turned into a restricted access.
Nov 14th, 2018, 09:14 AM
#54
Converting a free tourist site to restricted entry with a fee is not new. During earlier trips to Europe I could walk into the Colosseum and the Roman Forum without fee or hindrance. We could park at and cross the Pont du Gard in southern France, and check out many other sites without tickets, timed or otherwise. These places are now fenced and ticketed for significant fees. It could happen with this site also. Time passes, things change.
Nov 14th, 2018, 10:45 AM
#55
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'What if the there is not there anymore when we get there' - Gertrude Stein and applies to so many once romantic sites like Kinderdijk, Venice, Bruges, etc. Double-edged sword of increasing tourism due to cheaper air fares and folks fromsay Asia being able to travel.
Nov 14th, 2018, 01:10 PM
#56
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I think that ship has sailed when Northern Europe started to invade the Mediterranean shorelines and the Canary Islands in the 1960s.
"Over tourism" is something you find everywhere from Fuengirola to Antalya.. not by the 100,000s but by the 100,000,000s
And honestly, no one who climbs aboard a Ryanair or TUIfly "bus" gives a fiddler's fart that an unholy alliance of Northern vacation corporations and local corrupt politicians wrecked hundreds of kilometers of shoreline with condos and hotels and changed the habitat and ecosystem of millions of residents along our favorite bathtub AKA the Med.
But when the tide hits more Northern destinations.. wow, how loud can those scream who don't think twice before enjoying those cheap beach hostels on Koh Samui or just fly for the weekend to Majorca.
And just to prove the obvious, I just booked a flight to Lanzarote next month.
Airfare from Berlin to that island off the coast of North Africa was €42 return - for a distance that is a bit longer than Los Angeles to Atlanta.
That's really ridiculous, but airfares in Europe have become so ridiculously cheap that an off-season flight to Spain costs a fraction of a 2 hour train ride to the next major city... no wonder that everybody is going anywhere all the time.
"Over tourism" is something you find everywhere from Fuengirola to Antalya.. not by the 100,000s but by the 100,000,000s
And honestly, no one who climbs aboard a Ryanair or TUIfly "bus" gives a fiddler's fart that an unholy alliance of Northern vacation corporations and local corrupt politicians wrecked hundreds of kilometers of shoreline with condos and hotels and changed the habitat and ecosystem of millions of residents along our favorite bathtub AKA the Med.
But when the tide hits more Northern destinations.. wow, how loud can those scream who don't think twice before enjoying those cheap beach hostels on Koh Samui or just fly for the weekend to Majorca.
And just to prove the obvious, I just booked a flight to Lanzarote next month.
Airfare from Berlin to that island off the coast of North Africa was €42 return - for a distance that is a bit longer than Los Angeles to Atlanta.
That's really ridiculous, but airfares in Europe have become so ridiculously cheap that an off-season flight to Spain costs a fraction of a 2 hour train ride to the next major city... no wonder that everybody is going anywhere all the time.
Nov 14th, 2018, 07:43 PM
#58
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That's how I understood it.
There is public access via a public road. Which also leads to "ticket evasion" as no ticket is required to just walk or cycle around and look at the windmills.
That road needs to be gated and access restricted to pedestrians or cyclists which either have a valid ticket, a "free pass" if they are residents, or a free day pass when they are registered as guests of the residents or have any business to take care of for the residents.
This is not exactly rocket science and will ensure that at any time there will only be the allowed number of people in the whole zone.
I assume that it won't be the first time in the history of the Netherlands that one formerly unstricted right of way is turned into a restricted access.
There is public access via a public road. Which also leads to "ticket evasion" as no ticket is required to just walk or cycle around and look at the windmills.
That road needs to be gated and access restricted to pedestrians or cyclists which either have a valid ticket, a "free pass" if they are residents, or a free day pass when they are registered as guests of the residents or have any business to take care of for the residents.
This is not exactly rocket science and will ensure that at any time there will only be the allowed number of people in the whole zone.
I assume that it won't be the first time in the history of the Netherlands that one formerly unstricted right of way is turned into a restricted access.
Nov 14th, 2018, 10:27 PM
#59
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It is illegal under the principles of the common market to discriminate in favor of or against anyone based on citizenship. So it would be illegal to allow Dutch citizens to enter for free, and make everyone else pay.
But it's both allowed and common to give local residents (regardless of their citizenship) advantages or discounts.
The examples are endless - from discounts for intra-islands flights on the Canary Islands to cable cars in the Alps.
Or free resident parking permits vs. paid parking or no parking permission at all for anyone else.
It's not a carte blanche to discriminate in any way you like - but the Kinderdijk residents would be pretty much a model case.
But it's both allowed and common to give local residents (regardless of their citizenship) advantages or discounts.
The examples are endless - from discounts for intra-islands flights on the Canary Islands to cable cars in the Alps.
Or free resident parking permits vs. paid parking or no parking permission at all for anyone else.
It's not a carte blanche to discriminate in any way you like - but the Kinderdijk residents would be pretty much a model case.
No discrimination by nationality within the EU nationals - SOLVIT - European Commission
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Specia...Canary_Islands
Nov 14th, 2018, 10:28 PM
#60
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Allright, but you can't have crowd control and unlimited access at the same time.
I played around with Google maps and Streetview a bit and from the distance it looks as if the Middenwaard cycling route has no purpose in connecting villages through the protected area.
There are bike paths along Molenstraat to connect Alblasserdam with the village of Kinderdijk and with the ferry across the Lek, and one route through the hinterland to connect to Nieuw-Lekkerland (by the way -- is that were all the sweets and candy are made??)
Cars and city buses go around the area anyway.
So it looks as if the Middenwaard is hardly anything more than a "just for fun" cycling route for most, with some Alblasserdam residents who might use it as a shortcut to save a few minutes of cycling.
If THAT is so important, I think people should reconsider their priorities.
I played around with Google maps and Streetview a bit and from the distance it looks as if the Middenwaard cycling route has no purpose in connecting villages through the protected area.
There are bike paths along Molenstraat to connect Alblasserdam with the village of Kinderdijk and with the ferry across the Lek, and one route through the hinterland to connect to Nieuw-Lekkerland (by the way -- is that were all the sweets and candy are made??)
Cars and city buses go around the area anyway.
So it looks as if the Middenwaard is hardly anything more than a "just for fun" cycling route for most, with some Alblasserdam residents who might use it as a shortcut to save a few minutes of cycling.
If THAT is so important, I think people should reconsider their priorities.
