Two Cents

Dear Lo: What I am saying about guns is: Do you really think a person with a criminal lean would pay attention to the laws anyway? To shoot someone is against the law.

Lo

So arrest those kids who shot their classmates and their siblings and themselves. Outlaws, every one? The supply needs to be cut off, any way it takes. Ask any policeman.

Lo

I realize that answer was a little too cryptic (had to answer the phone). What I mean is that keeping gun ownership "legal" doesn't guarantee anything about their use or misuse but it does guarantee an over-supply. That bumper-sticker mentality of 'if guns were illegal only outlaws would have guns' is a bit of solipcistic scare-tactics. As it is, not only is it ridiculously easy for criminals to get guns, it is ridiculously easy for them to get a LOT of guns, which doesn't bother the profit-minded gun makers one bit. And it is ridiculously easy for kids with problems, wife-batterers, and suicide risks to get guns, lots of guns. <BR> <BR>Most homicides do not occur as part of another crime; most involve domestic or social disputes. <BR> <BR>To the Europeans reading this: this discussion reflects much of the debate going on in the US. If you mostly hear the voices of Rex/Two Cents-types, that doesn't mean that's what the typical American believes for one second. We are debating it. We know it's a problem. But the moneyed and powered interests choose not to notice that we have a terrible problem not shared by those parts of the world where gun-manufacture and gun-ownership is closely controled.

xxx.xxx

Swing Lo sweet chariot, coming for to carry me home.

Alex T.

I am the son of two career diplomats. We were posted literally all over the world--from Borneo to Boston and everywhere in between. <BR> <BR>My favorite misconception of Americans held by Europeans is that few of us can speak a second or even third language. I speak English, French, German, Spanish, Japanese and Italian. One of my favorite methods to squelch idiots who decide to make fun of Americans is to silently smile, nod and listen and then to counterattack in their own language, using regional colloquialisms learned during my formative years. Sounds a bit petty and cruel, but many Europeans hold Americans in disdain. We are sometimes considered uneducated, lazy, wealthy and self-indulgent. Of course, these insults come from European subcultures which were so desirable in the late 19th century that many of their ancestors chose to emigrate away from this so-called "old world paradise". To be completely honest, I do enjoy squelching arrogant fools with the one weapon they believe we do not possess--language. <BR> <BR>So much for civility--particularly when so many Europeans have the arrogance to be openly disdainful and antagonizing towards Americans. <BR> <BR>Let us not overlook the possibility that there is a hefty amount of jealousy involved as well. If all European educational institutions where as highly regarded as their American counterparts, then why do we see so many Europeans coming to the states for graduate school? And if Europeans are truly more educated, refined and versed in the arts of etiquette, a reasonable person might ask why they behave like such violent idiots at soccer games? <BR> <BR>Just some food for thought.

Laura

Regarding this language thing....it's true that when I was growing up, just a very small percentage of kids in high school studied a second language. But that is so different now.......EVERY SINGLE PERSON under twenty that I know who has graduated high school has studied at least one other language besides English, some have studied more than one, and many began studying them in elementary school...both of my girls are fluent in French, and one is also pretty good in German and almost fluent in Spanish....and they are typical of America's young people. The whole world is changing with this younger generation in ways that will benefit all of us. But this language barrier will soon be a thing of the past.

cmt

Here's what a lot of people in a small town in Sicily thought about USA and Americans: that we're all rich, live in mansions with fancy gates, that all our streets and roads are big highways and we have no small towns or country dirt roads. In a small town in Greece, some people thought anyone in NJ would probably have heard of anyone else in NJ.

Debora

To Alex T. <BR> <BR>Did you lived in so many places, learned so much about other countries, but can't help yourself of being full of prejudice? <BR>Think twice. <BR>

multilingual

Yo, Alex, my man! I agree that many Europeans' misconception is that Americans can't understand them. Without going into detail, let me just say I relate. I speak several languages too, and I have a similar background as yours. What many people here fail to understand is that these comments are routinely made about Americans without any kind of initial provocation, and no matter how much <BR>&lt;politesse&gt; has been initially extended. It's kind of a *diversion* to make us the subject of discussion, usually within easy ear-shot. It is at best condescending, and at worst, dare I say.... disdainful? Now, fellow Americans, how else can you take it? <BR>I try to respond with as much humor and good grace as I can in the situation. Often, I just translate what was just said to my traveling partner, in English, with a *knowing* kind of tone of voice. I have received *many* an immediate and profuse apology, and I have seen many wives/husbands poke their husband/wife in the rib to cool it. But it is really quite unnecessary, and certainly no mark of civility. I think if one is unaware of this, one is traveling &lt;avec lunettes rosées&gt;. But that can certainly be a blessing!

xxx

It's funny, I'm not particularly the rose-colored glasses type, but i just haven't noticed much of what you mention. In fact I can only remember one such incident, and it was somewhat my fault, though I believe the woman was rather obnoxious. I was inArles for a day on my own. It was only my second or third day in France, and the language circuits in my brain weren't yet fully turned on. I'd taken the bus to Arles on my own from Aix-en-Provence. It was also my first time in France in many years, and my French was still very rusty, to put it mildly. I had to go to the bathroom, really badly. All the archeological sites and the museum of Arlesien folk culture were closed for the mid-day, there were no public toilets in sight, and this wasn't the type of place where you just find some nice hidden "bushes." But I noticed one museum open, and I was hoping it might have a bathroom, although the museum itself did not interest me and it was not free. I asked, in French, what kind of museum it was; it was a very contemporary art museum, and I was trying ti find out what kind of special exhibits might be featured that I might like, since it didn't sound too appealing. I was hoping to have some other reason to buy a ticket other than to use a bathroom. The ticket taker turned to her colleague and said soemthing about these Americans not knowing anything. <BR> <BR>Most of the time when I overhear people talking about me and my Americanness, or my American travel companions, it is rather complimentary. For example, while I understand Italian, I can just barely make out the gist of a conversation in dialect. In a small town I overheard someone saying (in dialect, so i wouldn't understand) that I was not like those visitors who just come and rush around to see a special event and then leave, that I was really interested in the old ways and knew about the old traditional crafts and appreciated them. In the same town, i heard people talking about me as the "playful American" (in Italian) because of a practical joke they'd observed and enjoyed. In other places, when I was hiking with a small group, people asked us if we were from Germany, and they seemed to light up when we said we were American. So maybe I've just been lucky.

multi lingual

I think you *have* been lucky. I was luckier in many of my other trips. My ear is quite well trained, so I miss very little. In all fairness, we heard good comments too. I won't bore you with those plaudits here. But that was often after an initial reception that shall we say, was...less than warm? At any rate, whether their comments were positive or not, there we were: the subject of their discussion. As if they did not think we could understand. <BR> <BR>I think there *has* been a shift in attitude. But that was discussed in another thread.

joe

<BR>America is <BR>Domino's <BR>Subway <BR>McDonald's <BR>Costco <BR>and drugstores, drugstores, drugstores.

Chris

cmt -- that NJ thing is not exclusively European. I went to Rutgers and everyone (even if they're from New Jersey) says "oh, so you must know _____?" Instead of saying, "Um, NOOooo -- there were 20,000 students at RU!" I just smile and say "no, sorry -- must have been in a different dorm."

top

let's keep this discussion going!

j

I've always seen Americans a little childish. At least somebody not to take too seriously. Is this a perception or a misconception? I really don't know. <BR> <BR>

Laura

j.....could that be a reaction to our very open joy of life? I think Americans as a whole are more willing to do new things, go more places, taste new cuisines, and embrace new cultures than other nationalities seem to be.....and I think that may come across as similar to the spontaniety of childhood to those who may be a bit more uptight.

Intrax

Europeans jealous? Americans childish? <BR> <BR>Those kinds of characterizations always reflect more on the perceiver than the perceived, particularly the "jealous" idea. <BR> <BR>Without exception, anyone who has ever claimed that someone else was "just jealous" of them or their situation utterly lacked any insight whatever. The attitude is that what 'I' am and what 'I' have are so wonderful and glorious that anyone who disapproves just has to be lying about really wanting it too. When abolitionists went after slavery, there were actually those who said they were just jealous because they didn't have any. <BR> <BR>Another perfect, very American example: a fatcat moron with a huge pink Cadillac who pulled in in front of me and took up two parking places so that I could park in neither place. When I protested, his retort was that I was jealous of his godawful car. <BR> <BR>As for "childishness" and not taking us seriously? How childish! Americans can seem ingenuous because they are forthright and friendly, but Euros who respond condescendingly remind me of adolescents who try to be cooler-than-thou -- which is such a crock when you look at the level of slapstick and bathroom humor that appeals to the same people! <BR> <BR>I once had a seminar with a Tongan student who seemed just so laid back and endlessly cheerful that I made the same mistake of "not taking him seriously" that some Europeans seem to make with respect to Americans. It turned out that he could discuss theory and manipulate concepts more acutely than just about anyone else in the seminar. He just smiled when he did it.

Trited

First off, I'm American living abroad. <BR> <BR>Truths <BR>1. The US is loaded with people who don't know jack about anything outside their daily lives including geography, current events, and history (american included). <BR> <BR>2. There are tons of overweight people. Young people, not so much. Huge meals? Only in restaurants. Lots of snacking, though. <BR> <BR>3. You can be a respectable citizen and have a gun. For the most part, only criminals carry guns. Most of the guns can be found in the rural areas. Most city dwellers don't have them. Some do, but crime really isn't a big problem. Especially in tourism areas. Your wallets are safe. <BR> <BR>4. Cities are farrrr apart. <BR> <BR>5. Most people who vacation in Europe are rich. If you see an american in a backpack, probably not rich. If you see a family with young children, definitely rich. <BR> <BR>6. Americans are not loud and boisterous any more than most Northern Europeans. Less, I'd say. <BR> <BR>7. After living in Italy for awhile, there is no good american wine. Its not worth paying for anyway. <BR> <BR>8. European news covers american events with interest. US news only covers major events, and very briefly. <BR> <BR>Thats all I can think of for now. Most Italians I work with have been to the US, so I don't really get many misconceptions.

tommy

Hey Trited - if you see an american in a backpack, let him out - he'll suffocate in there.

Ruth

The one that floors me is that so many Europeans think that their doctors have as much schooling as ours do when, in fact, there is a huge difference in the number of YEARS between what it takes to become a doctor, say, in the U.K., compared to what it takes to become one in the States.