Medical Tourism
Jan 18th, 2003, 06:12 AM
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Medical Tourism
Suggestion..Routine medical and dental procedures are inexpensive in Poland. The quality of the work is equal to any anywhere and may be better. I had an eye examination, visual eye check, chart test, and numbed eye pressure reading. Also a prescription. Bill was $11. Wife had a simpler check for $5. All dental work is perhaps 20% of cost in USA. An EKG and 30 minutes of cardiologist's time came to $15. Routine blood tests are another low cost possibility. There are long lines for free/civil procedures. Private pay work is usually immediate.
Jan 18th, 2003, 07:13 AM
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Gee. I bet you wear Nike's made in the Indonesian sweatshop too. How much is a taxi fare? Bet most are driven by neurosurgeons if what you say is true. Let me guess what the eye exam showed: myopia. I thought this thread would be about medical charitable missionary travel. It is, in reverse. With air, hotel, visa, etc. a trip to the dentist in Poland is hardly a bargain.
Jan 18th, 2003, 08:00 AM
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Actually, in Switzerland, there are tour companies that specialize in this. I have only seen it for dental procedures and plastic surgery and the destination of choice seems to be Hungary. While I wouldn't consider having plastic surgery done there, I have had dental work done (we used to live there). Excellent quality and just as high tech (or more so) as the US.<BR><BR>Anyway, for a specific price, the tour company arranges for cleaning etc of the teeth, hotel and transportation. With the dental fees in CH approaching that of the States, many feel that it is worthwhile.
Jan 18th, 2003, 08:36 AM
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<BR>As well as Poland, Hungary is good for this ort of thing, as Jan says. I agree that you would not go to either country's clinics all the way from the States, but if you will be in Europe anyway this is a good use of your time and money. <BR><BR>Useful pages for charitable travel are on http://www.lonelypalnet.com, and for longer-term work are the sites for the Peace Corps, Voluntary Service Overseas, and Medecins san Frontieres. I have not seen this discussed on this site, in four years of reading.<BR><BR>To take your bad back or bad tooth to central Europe is helpful. You pay what they see as good fees, and their ability to collect such fees from you lets them help more poor and free patients than they would have done.<BR><BR>A taxi fare is about three euros: why does Mr Real ask ? <BR><BR>Ben Haines, London<BR>
Jan 18th, 2003, 09:25 AM
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<BR>As well as Poland, Hungary is good for this ort of thing, as Jan says. I agree that you would not go to either country's clinics all the way from the States, but if you will be in Europe anyway this is a good use of your time and money. <BR><BR>Useful pages for charitable travel are on http://www.lonelypalnet.com, and for longer-term work are the sites for the Peace Corps, Voluntary Service Overseas, and Medecins san Frontieres. I have not seen this discussed on this site, in four years of reading.<BR><BR>To take your bad back or bad tooth to central Europe is helpful. You pay what they see as good fees, and their ability to collect such fees from you lets them help more poor and free patients than they would have done.<BR><BR>A taxi fare is about three euros: why does Mr Real ask ? <BR><BR>Ben Haines, London<BR>
Jan 20th, 2003, 02:35 PM
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One of the British chains of opticians opened outlets in Poland, some had British or Australian trained managers. Frames were exactly as in UK for about 40% less and lenses about half price. If you are in the region for a few days, it is worthwhile but no I would not travel specifically for it. But Get Real style comments reflect his myopia - people actually may live in the region and will not have to pay excessively to go there or actually go on holiday to the place and may as well take advantage of things - just like anyone who gets a suit made in Asia. So wake up to a sensible comment that in no way warranted the comment.
Jul 31st, 2007, 12:38 PM
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Medical and dental standards in most of central and eastern Europe are high.
If you need a moderate amount of dental work done (something like a few crowns and/or bridges) you can save enough to cover the cost of travel and accommodation. It's worth considering.
If you need a moderate amount of dental work done (something like a few crowns and/or bridges) you can save enough to cover the cost of travel and accommodation. It's worth considering.
Jul 31st, 2007, 12:51 PM
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The response seems to be that this is either a vulgar, crass or comic idea, but at very minumum, novel.
In Eastern Europe, the Carribbean and in India, it is very much accepted practice and, while it may be a brand new idea for a couple of posters here, it is "old hat" to others. Just Google your way to a new hip, without the 8 month-2 year wait, a tummy tuck at 1/3 the cost or dentures while you wait.
Whats wrong with that, if you can afford to go? it keeps those who can out of the waiting lists for those who can't...and I haven't seen any unemployed docs in North America lately so its not hurting the medical profession (who were likely trained overseas in those same clinics anyway!)
In Eastern Europe, the Carribbean and in India, it is very much accepted practice and, while it may be a brand new idea for a couple of posters here, it is "old hat" to others. Just Google your way to a new hip, without the 8 month-2 year wait, a tummy tuck at 1/3 the cost or dentures while you wait.
Whats wrong with that, if you can afford to go? it keeps those who can out of the waiting lists for those who can't...and I haven't seen any unemployed docs in North America lately so its not hurting the medical profession (who were likely trained overseas in those same clinics anyway!)
Aug 1st, 2007, 06:50 AM
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Although the original post was 4 years ago - I think this topic is important.
If you haven't see the movie SICKO directed by Michael Moore I would highly recommend seeing it.
I know he is controversial, and not always 100% accurate, but it is the overall concern about HMO's in America that is the focus.
He even checked out the medical care in Cuba (a third world country - with first world medical care).
If you haven't see the movie SICKO directed by Michael Moore I would highly recommend seeing it.
I know he is controversial, and not always 100% accurate, but it is the overall concern about HMO's in America that is the focus.
He even checked out the medical care in Cuba (a third world country - with first world medical care).
Aug 1st, 2007, 09:10 PM
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Anyone who wants to talk about socialized medicine will get an earful from me! We just got back from Greece a few days ago. My 8 year old daughter had a staph infection in Crete. We took her to the hospital where she spent two nights until we busted her out, against the doctors' wishes. Let me explain...
We started by taking her to the ER to have a look at some open sores on her legs that had been festering for a few days. I've never seen a staph infection before and we initally thought the sores were from a reaction to the chicken pox booster that she had been given the day before we left. Anyway, the building was modern and looked like any other hospital that you might see in a small US city or town. Upon entry, we were asked to pay 3 Euro then told to enter through the doors and go up to the 3rd floor. On the 3rd floor we found the pediatrics unit and a couple of nurses who took a look at her, wrote a prescription (which later, another "private" Greek doctor told us was all wrong) and we were sent on our merry way.
An hour after her first dose, she became ill and we were concerned that she was having an adverse reaction to the medication so all 7 of us hopped in the van and rushed to the hospital. She was quickly seen and then sent to the childrens' play area to wait for the doctor (yes, she had a staph infection and was sent to the childrens' play area where several other children were playing). He did not examine her but, looked at her legs as she was walking in front of him in the hallway. He told the nurses to admit her for IV therapy. They set up her IV and the comforting words from the nurse to my frightened 8 year old were..."if you don't hold still, we'll do it to you twice." Nice...! She was sent to her room...four beds, no gown, no soap, no towels, no paper towels...nothing. The bathroom was filthy, the floor was filthy, everything had fingerprints on it. The bathroom hadn't been properly cleaned in months however, the sheets appeared to be fresh. My daughter slept in the clothes she arrived in...remember, no gowns. I had no soap to bathe her or wipe her down and no towels either. For tissues (Kleenex), they used the large sheets of paper that is put down when babies are weighed on the scale. I broke into the exam room to get soap and the rough sheets of paper to wipe her down. At no time did anyone make any attempt to clean her open sores with antiseptic.
She was only given the IV fluids every 8 hours when it was time for her medication. After her medication went through the drip, she was disconnected. I was given a thermometer and told to take her temperature periodically. There were no water cups or ice chips. The only hydration she had was from me purchasing water and Gatorade from the little store on the first floor (more on that later).
Breakfast was a couple of crackers, butter and jam and a cup of tea or milk. Mid-morning snack was a piece of bread with a slice of cheese wrapped in some plastic wrap. In the mornings, you would see patients, in their street clothes with their IV in the arm (no drip), going down to the little store to purchase breakfast and have a smoke outside the front door of the hospital. The nurses and doctors also smoked in their little office on the pediatric ward. In their defense, I think they opened the window. Note sarcasm.
During the first night, I was awakened by screaming outside our window which overlooked the ER area. There were several men and an ambulance and they were all screaming at each other. I walked into the hallway and tracked down the nurse (the only one on the floor that night) and the mom of one of the little patients who were also looking out the window and watching the scene below. In a nutshell, there was a seriously ill infant who was either a) going to die if he stayed in the hospital in Chania or b) going to die on his way to the hospital in Iraklio. I should mention, Iraklio is at least 3 hours away by ambulance. There was equipment but no staff for the neonatal unit in Chania (and hence, no unit) and no helicopter to take the baby to the other hospital. The father wanted the baby to be moved (presumedly to get better care in the staffed unit in Iraklio) and the doctors did not want to move him. Eventually he was moved, but I never found out if he survived the trip. I pray that he did.
When my husband arrived the next morning to relieve me, he told me that on his way out the night before, he had seen the cleaning lady slopping a filthy mop around the floor and...get this...picking up half empty drinking water bottles from the tables and pouring them into her already filthy water bucket!!! Indeed, tis true! Anyway, as soon as he got there, I went searching for an open market (it was Sunday). The only place I could find nearby had some cleaning supplies, but I was not quite sure about their anti-bacterial properties so I purchased some rubbing alcohol as well. I scrubbed down the room and the bathroom so that we could put our daughter into the filthy shower without fear of her catching something worse than what she already had.
We knew something had to be done. It was not until later the second day that I spoke with the doctor again and she said they wanted to keep my daughter for 5 more days. I don't think so.... The clincher was on the third day when they moved a 2 year old boy into the room with an eye injury (yes my daughter had a staph infection). The boy had a twin sister as well. both were crawling around the room and fussing and I knew then that this was not going to work. When I asked to speak to the doctor about leaving, five of them showed up, acting all concerned. I was made to sign a waiver to discharge her...no brainer. The worst that could happen was we would fly to London or check to see if we could get her into an American facility on the US base in Crete. ( I don't know if that's possible, but we were thinking along those lines). When the doctor brought me the antibiotic prescriptions, she also lectured me on hygiene!!!! and insisted that I keep her sores clean. I was told to be sure to use the bacitracin topical and scrub with great rigour. At this point, I must reinforce, that we weren't even given soap or towels at the hospital let alone bacitracin (other than what I pilfered from the exam room).
The great surprise came at check out when I was presented with a bill for 132 Euro for 2 nights/3 days in the hospital. THAT, MY FRIENDS IS WHAT YOU GET FOR SOCIALIZED MEDICINE! It's cheap! It would have been free had I been a resident or working in Greece. Now, Michael Moore, let me also share this... back at the hotel, I was explaining our story to the manager whose wife was 9 months pregnant. He said..."most people don't use that hospital, we have private insurance and use the private clinic in Chania!" That my friends, is double taxation. Let's tax people to pay for hospitals that anyone with any means wouldn't think of using and then, because of poor staffing, poor care, etc., force anyone who has a few extra dollars to get private insurance so they don't have to use the hospitals they paid for already. I don't know the answer to the healthcare dilemma, but I know one thing for sure...if I ever get seriously ill, I want to be in an American hospital. Maybe the next time Michael Moore gets sick, we can pitch in for the airfare to send him to Chania for treatment.
We started by taking her to the ER to have a look at some open sores on her legs that had been festering for a few days. I've never seen a staph infection before and we initally thought the sores were from a reaction to the chicken pox booster that she had been given the day before we left. Anyway, the building was modern and looked like any other hospital that you might see in a small US city or town. Upon entry, we were asked to pay 3 Euro then told to enter through the doors and go up to the 3rd floor. On the 3rd floor we found the pediatrics unit and a couple of nurses who took a look at her, wrote a prescription (which later, another "private" Greek doctor told us was all wrong) and we were sent on our merry way.
An hour after her first dose, she became ill and we were concerned that she was having an adverse reaction to the medication so all 7 of us hopped in the van and rushed to the hospital. She was quickly seen and then sent to the childrens' play area to wait for the doctor (yes, she had a staph infection and was sent to the childrens' play area where several other children were playing). He did not examine her but, looked at her legs as she was walking in front of him in the hallway. He told the nurses to admit her for IV therapy. They set up her IV and the comforting words from the nurse to my frightened 8 year old were..."if you don't hold still, we'll do it to you twice." Nice...! She was sent to her room...four beds, no gown, no soap, no towels, no paper towels...nothing. The bathroom was filthy, the floor was filthy, everything had fingerprints on it. The bathroom hadn't been properly cleaned in months however, the sheets appeared to be fresh. My daughter slept in the clothes she arrived in...remember, no gowns. I had no soap to bathe her or wipe her down and no towels either. For tissues (Kleenex), they used the large sheets of paper that is put down when babies are weighed on the scale. I broke into the exam room to get soap and the rough sheets of paper to wipe her down. At no time did anyone make any attempt to clean her open sores with antiseptic.
She was only given the IV fluids every 8 hours when it was time for her medication. After her medication went through the drip, she was disconnected. I was given a thermometer and told to take her temperature periodically. There were no water cups or ice chips. The only hydration she had was from me purchasing water and Gatorade from the little store on the first floor (more on that later).
Breakfast was a couple of crackers, butter and jam and a cup of tea or milk. Mid-morning snack was a piece of bread with a slice of cheese wrapped in some plastic wrap. In the mornings, you would see patients, in their street clothes with their IV in the arm (no drip), going down to the little store to purchase breakfast and have a smoke outside the front door of the hospital. The nurses and doctors also smoked in their little office on the pediatric ward. In their defense, I think they opened the window. Note sarcasm.
During the first night, I was awakened by screaming outside our window which overlooked the ER area. There were several men and an ambulance and they were all screaming at each other. I walked into the hallway and tracked down the nurse (the only one on the floor that night) and the mom of one of the little patients who were also looking out the window and watching the scene below. In a nutshell, there was a seriously ill infant who was either a) going to die if he stayed in the hospital in Chania or b) going to die on his way to the hospital in Iraklio. I should mention, Iraklio is at least 3 hours away by ambulance. There was equipment but no staff for the neonatal unit in Chania (and hence, no unit) and no helicopter to take the baby to the other hospital. The father wanted the baby to be moved (presumedly to get better care in the staffed unit in Iraklio) and the doctors did not want to move him. Eventually he was moved, but I never found out if he survived the trip. I pray that he did.
When my husband arrived the next morning to relieve me, he told me that on his way out the night before, he had seen the cleaning lady slopping a filthy mop around the floor and...get this...picking up half empty drinking water bottles from the tables and pouring them into her already filthy water bucket!!! Indeed, tis true! Anyway, as soon as he got there, I went searching for an open market (it was Sunday). The only place I could find nearby had some cleaning supplies, but I was not quite sure about their anti-bacterial properties so I purchased some rubbing alcohol as well. I scrubbed down the room and the bathroom so that we could put our daughter into the filthy shower without fear of her catching something worse than what she already had.
We knew something had to be done. It was not until later the second day that I spoke with the doctor again and she said they wanted to keep my daughter for 5 more days. I don't think so.... The clincher was on the third day when they moved a 2 year old boy into the room with an eye injury (yes my daughter had a staph infection). The boy had a twin sister as well. both were crawling around the room and fussing and I knew then that this was not going to work. When I asked to speak to the doctor about leaving, five of them showed up, acting all concerned. I was made to sign a waiver to discharge her...no brainer. The worst that could happen was we would fly to London or check to see if we could get her into an American facility on the US base in Crete. ( I don't know if that's possible, but we were thinking along those lines). When the doctor brought me the antibiotic prescriptions, she also lectured me on hygiene!!!! and insisted that I keep her sores clean. I was told to be sure to use the bacitracin topical and scrub with great rigour. At this point, I must reinforce, that we weren't even given soap or towels at the hospital let alone bacitracin (other than what I pilfered from the exam room).
The great surprise came at check out when I was presented with a bill for 132 Euro for 2 nights/3 days in the hospital. THAT, MY FRIENDS IS WHAT YOU GET FOR SOCIALIZED MEDICINE! It's cheap! It would have been free had I been a resident or working in Greece. Now, Michael Moore, let me also share this... back at the hotel, I was explaining our story to the manager whose wife was 9 months pregnant. He said..."most people don't use that hospital, we have private insurance and use the private clinic in Chania!" That my friends, is double taxation. Let's tax people to pay for hospitals that anyone with any means wouldn't think of using and then, because of poor staffing, poor care, etc., force anyone who has a few extra dollars to get private insurance so they don't have to use the hospitals they paid for already. I don't know the answer to the healthcare dilemma, but I know one thing for sure...if I ever get seriously ill, I want to be in an American hospital. Maybe the next time Michael Moore gets sick, we can pitch in for the airfare to send him to Chania for treatment.
Aug 1st, 2007, 09:53 PM
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No, that isn't what you get with socialised medicine, that is what you get in that one hospital/country. Don't be silly and generalise that it would have been the same at any hospital in any country with a socialised healthcare system.
That's like going into a restaurant, having a bad meal, and declaring that all restaurants all over the world serve bad food.
That's like going into a restaurant, having a bad meal, and declaring that all restaurants all over the world serve bad food.
Aug 1st, 2007, 10:21 PM
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dgg - so you think this is what happens in EVERY country that has socialized medicine?
To the others who are looking into going to Eastern Europe for medical treatment - be sure to research into what happens in case things go wrong, i.e. how to deal with malpractice etc.
I think in most cases you'll be OK but I've also read quite a few horror stories where procedures went very very wrong, including so wrong it led to permanent disability/disfigurement or even death, and it ended up costing the patient considerably more than he/she bargained for to fix in their home country.
To the others who are looking into going to Eastern Europe for medical treatment - be sure to research into what happens in case things go wrong, i.e. how to deal with malpractice etc.
I think in most cases you'll be OK but I've also read quite a few horror stories where procedures went very very wrong, including so wrong it led to permanent disability/disfigurement or even death, and it ended up costing the patient considerably more than he/she bargained for to fix in their home country.
Aug 1st, 2007, 10:47 PM
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Nona1...First off, we have excellent medical insurance and that was the least of our concerns...especially at 132 Euro for two nights in a hospital. You seemed to have missed my point entirely. My husband and I spoke about it later and would have hired a private trans-atlantic jet to get our daughter out of that place if we felt it was necessary. Money was not the issue by any stretch of the imagination.
As far as socialized medicine, I suggest you go to ANY country with socialized medicine for your next medical treatment. Dear friends of ours..Canadians who became US citizens the very first day they were eligible, told us some pretty amazing stories about healthcare in Canada. Let's talk about people with broken collar bones who have to wait 6 weeks for an MRI! We're talking Canada...not 3rd world. Several years ago, I worked in Canada (but lived in the US). At that time there was an initiative to cap the income of Canadian physisicians. As far as I'm concerned, I want my doctor, my airline pilot, etc. to make as much money as he/she thinks he/she is worth! In other words, I want the best. If we push HMO's (a form of socialized medicine), etc. any further, our best and brightest minds will be lost to Wall Street or politics where they can make a much better living.
I recently had a routine medical procedure for a person in their mid-40's. I received a bill for $10 for orange juice that I don't even remember drinking. That certainly stinks, but I had the CHOICE of which facility, which sadly, those with socialized medicine do not have.
Socialized medicine makes healthcare cheap at the point of sale. It also raises taxes across the board which means it is not as "cheap" as it appears.
Do me a favor, the next time YOUR CHILD or loved one is sick, send them to ANY country with socialized medicine, then write back to me about your fabulous experience with your "cheap" healthcare. Until then, you have no authority to comment.
As far as socialized medicine, I suggest you go to ANY country with socialized medicine for your next medical treatment. Dear friends of ours..Canadians who became US citizens the very first day they were eligible, told us some pretty amazing stories about healthcare in Canada. Let's talk about people with broken collar bones who have to wait 6 weeks for an MRI! We're talking Canada...not 3rd world. Several years ago, I worked in Canada (but lived in the US). At that time there was an initiative to cap the income of Canadian physisicians. As far as I'm concerned, I want my doctor, my airline pilot, etc. to make as much money as he/she thinks he/she is worth! In other words, I want the best. If we push HMO's (a form of socialized medicine), etc. any further, our best and brightest minds will be lost to Wall Street or politics where they can make a much better living.
I recently had a routine medical procedure for a person in their mid-40's. I received a bill for $10 for orange juice that I don't even remember drinking. That certainly stinks, but I had the CHOICE of which facility, which sadly, those with socialized medicine do not have.
Socialized medicine makes healthcare cheap at the point of sale. It also raises taxes across the board which means it is not as "cheap" as it appears.
Do me a favor, the next time YOUR CHILD or loved one is sick, send them to ANY country with socialized medicine, then write back to me about your fabulous experience with your "cheap" healthcare. Until then, you have no authority to comment.
Aug 1st, 2007, 10:58 PM
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>I suggest you go to ANY country with socialized medicine for your next medical treatment.
What a load of nonsense, dgg. I donīt now about Canada, but the health care system in Greece is consdered to be bad by most greeks (and most other people going to holidays there). So you have seen that Greek health care system isnīt very good. So what?
Go to any French, German or Swiss hospital and you see some difference.
What a load of nonsense, dgg. I donīt now about Canada, but the health care system in Greece is consdered to be bad by most greeks (and most other people going to holidays there). So you have seen that Greek health care system isnīt very good. So what?
Go to any French, German or Swiss hospital and you see some difference.
Aug 1st, 2007, 11:18 PM
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>>>the next time YOUR CHILD or loved one is sick, send them to ANY country with socialized medicine, then write back to me about your fabulous experience with your "cheap" healthcare. Until then, you have no authority to comment.<<<
OK, so I have authority to comment. Last year my husband was diagnosed with cancer. It came up in a routine exam, and he didnīt have any symptoms. He was given all the treatment alternatives to think about, their plusses and minuses, and one week to think about it. And a second week to get used to the idea. Plus a chance to talk about it with some mental health person (that he didnīt use). In the beginning of the third week he went into a "socialized medicine hospital" where he went through a 5-hour long operation the next day. He spent 10 days in the hospital with full care (he loved the food, but anybody would have, after having to fast because of the operation). Afterwards he has gone to the hospital every three months, but nothing has come back at least for the time being.
The whole rumba cost about 100 €, and he doesnīt stop praising the treatment he got. He has never been sick before, except some flu and mumps 50 years ago, so he was pretty scared going to the hospital, even the idea of being sick used to be alien to him.
I am not complaining. You are talking about one hospital in Chania, Crete.
OK, so I have authority to comment. Last year my husband was diagnosed with cancer. It came up in a routine exam, and he didnīt have any symptoms. He was given all the treatment alternatives to think about, their plusses and minuses, and one week to think about it. And a second week to get used to the idea. Plus a chance to talk about it with some mental health person (that he didnīt use). In the beginning of the third week he went into a "socialized medicine hospital" where he went through a 5-hour long operation the next day. He spent 10 days in the hospital with full care (he loved the food, but anybody would have, after having to fast because of the operation). Afterwards he has gone to the hospital every three months, but nothing has come back at least for the time being.
The whole rumba cost about 100 €, and he doesnīt stop praising the treatment he got. He has never been sick before, except some flu and mumps 50 years ago, so he was pretty scared going to the hospital, even the idea of being sick used to be alien to him.
I am not complaining. You are talking about one hospital in Chania, Crete.
Aug 1st, 2007, 11:21 PM
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DGG, I have the authority to comment as I've lived in a country with socialised medical care all my life. I would have to say that everyone I know has had treatment of some kind at some time or other, including my own child. I've also received treatment in France.
the Greek island hospitals are notoriously bad. That doesn't mean they are representative of all hospitals in all countries with a socialised medical system. You know you are being daft there.
Actually, the Greek system as a whole, on the mainland, is very good. The WHO organisation rates Greece 14th best in the world, over USA at 37nd. See the doc here http://www.who.int/whr/2000/en/whr00_en.pdf
the Greek island hospitals are notoriously bad. That doesn't mean they are representative of all hospitals in all countries with a socialised medical system. You know you are being daft there.
Actually, the Greek system as a whole, on the mainland, is very good. The WHO organisation rates Greece 14th best in the world, over USA at 37nd. See the doc here http://www.who.int/whr/2000/en/whr00_en.pdf
Aug 1st, 2007, 11:21 PM
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Altamiro, how much time have you spent in Swiss, German and French healthcare facilities? I can't speak for the German and Swiss, but I've done the French thing and their facilities, on the whole, do not even begin to compare with the average US facilities.
First off, I would like to hear your first hand experiences and your basis of comparison.
Secondly, I would like to know why the wealthiest people in the world choose to come to America for the most serious of their medical treatment. I'm sure there is good healthcare in other parts of the world, but you will not find in consistently across the board as you will in the US.
Most importantly, I leave you with these very old words of wisdom...BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU WISH FOR!
Please, everyone who wishes to comment on how "silly" I am, let me know your SPECIFIC experiences in the other (socialized) places you feel are so wonderful. If you can't do that, then just don't bother with your nonsense rhetoric.
First off, I would like to hear your first hand experiences and your basis of comparison.
Secondly, I would like to know why the wealthiest people in the world choose to come to America for the most serious of their medical treatment. I'm sure there is good healthcare in other parts of the world, but you will not find in consistently across the board as you will in the US.
Most importantly, I leave you with these very old words of wisdom...BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU WISH FOR!
Please, everyone who wishes to comment on how "silly" I am, let me know your SPECIFIC experiences in the other (socialized) places you feel are so wonderful. If you can't do that, then just don't bother with your nonsense rhetoric.
