Luggage questions for train travel in Italy.
Sep 1st, 2017, 12:48 PM
#41
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I doubt that you will have enough room to fit the luggage in that space between the facing seats--that's where your legs and feet go, with or without a table.
You might be able to squeeze your luggage between the backs of two seats, in the gap between seats facing away from each other.
https://www.123rf.com/stock-photo/tr...popup=66755170
You might be able to squeeze your luggage between the backs of two seats, in the gap between seats facing away from each other.
https://www.123rf.com/stock-photo/tr...popup=66755170
Sep 1st, 2017, 12:58 PM
#42
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You're probably right, ellenem (love your name, by the way, lnm). I wish I could find that seating chart again because the space mid-car did seem bigger than the others but that might have just been the drawing, not real life. Maybe we'll be lucky and not have seatmates!
Sep 1st, 2017, 01:19 PM
#43
What time of day/day of the week? I trained to Arezzo (from Bolzano via Florence) and then from Arezzo to Rome this July. My Arezzo-Rome run was on a Sunday, early afternoon. Fairly full train. Otherwise all my Italian train trips this summer featured relatively empty cars, and dealing with my luggage was no problem.
Sep 2nd, 2017, 06:29 AM
#47
>>>It's one short trip from Bologna to Arezzo, direct (so no stops, right?), first class. <<<
No, so I can't imagine what you bought. What website did you use? If you booked a Trenitalia fast Frecce train, they don't stop in Arezzo so you have to change trains in Florence to a slow regional train that don't have any reserved seating. The only other option on Trenitalia that doesn't require changing trains is the IC trains, but they still make several stops (you just don't have to change trains in route).
The IC trains can be random layout as some are really old (compartments with 6 people no matter whether 1st or 2nd and all luggage overhead the seats) or some newer IC trains (I don't see these as often) and some old ES trains put into service as IC. If I look at some random IC trains for your route, some show old compartment seating and others more the old ES train seating (where a few seats have tables).
If you did book an old ES as IC, for you to have space behind your seat to slide your luggage you must be at the seats with tables and back up to a set of seats with tables (those seats angle and allow you to slide the luggage in behind). The other seats in the car are pull down trays from the back of the seat in front and you can't slide anything behind them. Otherwise, ES trains typically have space at one end of the car where you board (other end has the bathrooms).
Although this photo shows 2nd class, 1st class is similar in seats, but with 2 on one side of the aisle and 1 on the other. The white space behind the seats is where you can slide the luggage. If 24" you might have to position it flat on the floor to slide in (BTDT). It doesn't interfere with the movement of the person's seat.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...ssainterno.jpg
FYI - If your stop is a pull through station, the train may only be scheduled to stop for as little as 1 minute (sometimes as long as 3 or 4). You need to be at the door with your luggage ready to get off because they won't wait on you while you gather things and make your way to a door. It's likely the stop in Arezzo for IC trains is 2 minutes.
No, so I can't imagine what you bought. What website did you use? If you booked a Trenitalia fast Frecce train, they don't stop in Arezzo so you have to change trains in Florence to a slow regional train that don't have any reserved seating. The only other option on Trenitalia that doesn't require changing trains is the IC trains, but they still make several stops (you just don't have to change trains in route).
The IC trains can be random layout as some are really old (compartments with 6 people no matter whether 1st or 2nd and all luggage overhead the seats) or some newer IC trains (I don't see these as often) and some old ES trains put into service as IC. If I look at some random IC trains for your route, some show old compartment seating and others more the old ES train seating (where a few seats have tables).
If you did book an old ES as IC, for you to have space behind your seat to slide your luggage you must be at the seats with tables and back up to a set of seats with tables (those seats angle and allow you to slide the luggage in behind). The other seats in the car are pull down trays from the back of the seat in front and you can't slide anything behind them. Otherwise, ES trains typically have space at one end of the car where you board (other end has the bathrooms).
Although this photo shows 2nd class, 1st class is similar in seats, but with 2 on one side of the aisle and 1 on the other. The white space behind the seats is where you can slide the luggage. If 24" you might have to position it flat on the floor to slide in (BTDT). It doesn't interfere with the movement of the person's seat.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...ssainterno.jpg
FYI - If your stop is a pull through station, the train may only be scheduled to stop for as little as 1 minute (sometimes as long as 3 or 4). You need to be at the door with your luggage ready to get off because they won't wait on you while you gather things and make your way to a door. It's likely the stop in Arezzo for IC trains is 2 minutes.
Sep 2nd, 2017, 02:29 PM
#50
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The ticket says Bologna to Arezzo, direct (there was an option of trains for '1+ connections'; I ticked 'direct'), and it's a 1 hour and 49 minute trip. The ticket says ItaliaRail "powered by Trenitalia". It says "Train: Intercity 583" (it's coach 2, seats 51 & 52, if that helps). I don't know if that's a type of train. It isn't a fast Frecce train. It does stop in Arezzo. Where it goes from there, I don't know.
If we did have to change trains somewhere mid-trip, wouldn't I have to have a second ticket for that, or at least some sort of other direction on this ticket (e.g. 'someplace to Arezzo, Train # something, Coach # something)?
I'm not concerned about the fanciness of the car or even very much about the comfort, so if it's an older car that's OK. It's a less than 2 hour trip so that's no biggie. If we can put our bags anywhere near us, like behind or under our seats that would be great. Even better is if the car has empty seats and we can move to the end where the baggage space is which would make for easier getting off.
Maybe I'll try to stop by the train station the day before and ask if there are stops on this trip.
If we did have to change trains somewhere mid-trip, wouldn't I have to have a second ticket for that, or at least some sort of other direction on this ticket (e.g. 'someplace to Arezzo, Train # something, Coach # something)?
I'm not concerned about the fanciness of the car or even very much about the comfort, so if it's an older car that's OK. It's a less than 2 hour trip so that's no biggie. If we can put our bags anywhere near us, like behind or under our seats that would be great. Even better is if the car has empty seats and we can move to the end where the baggage space is which would make for easier getting off.
Maybe I'll try to stop by the train station the day before and ask if there are stops on this trip.
Sep 2nd, 2017, 04:15 PM
#52
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With simple sleuth work supplying the info OP did not provide, here seems to be the scoop.
The train requires no change:
IC 583. 9:18 Bologna Centrale - 11:07 Arezzo Centrale with intermediate stops at Prato Centrale and Firenze Rifredi.
To cough up the seat map, start booking process at www.trenitalia.com. Check "scelgo il posto" box at bottom right, just above "CONTINUA" button.
It shows carozza 1 or 2. Choose 2 indicated by the OP.
It shows three seats next to each other with train type AM22L. It is a compartment written all over, but can validate this better other way. The seats in this "compartment" are 51-53-55 on one side and 52-54-58 on the other side. 51 and 52 are facing each other. These are the corridor door size seats. How do you know?
Look at https://allticketsfor.me/images/cont.../INTERCITY.pdf
Look at car "UIC Z1" 1st class, second from top, which you find by google searching for "AM22L" noted before. You see the three seats at both WC end of the trains matching the seat chart presented by Trenitalia for 1st class IC 583. I am sure these are compartments with 51 and 52 at corridor end. Open salon cars always have the corridor between the seats not at the side.
Can you put luggage in between 51 and 52? Not meant to be placed, but Italians and tourists do it. Just be considerate in putting at side, so if others need to occupy the compartment, they can get through. People with huge luggage even put them in the corridor. The Italian ticket inspectors are used to this and as long as there is a way to get round, sometimes leaping over them, they leave you alone. If the train is not full and your compartment is full but not other ones, Italians would simply occupy another compartment until the rightful seat owner shows up.
The 24" "might" fit on over head rack. The overhead rack in compartments are quite wide, but I have not tried anything larger than a 22".
The train requires no change:
IC 583. 9:18 Bologna Centrale - 11:07 Arezzo Centrale with intermediate stops at Prato Centrale and Firenze Rifredi.
To cough up the seat map, start booking process at www.trenitalia.com. Check "scelgo il posto" box at bottom right, just above "CONTINUA" button.
It shows carozza 1 or 2. Choose 2 indicated by the OP.
It shows three seats next to each other with train type AM22L. It is a compartment written all over, but can validate this better other way. The seats in this "compartment" are 51-53-55 on one side and 52-54-58 on the other side. 51 and 52 are facing each other. These are the corridor door size seats. How do you know?
Look at https://allticketsfor.me/images/cont.../INTERCITY.pdf
Look at car "UIC Z1" 1st class, second from top, which you find by google searching for "AM22L" noted before. You see the three seats at both WC end of the trains matching the seat chart presented by Trenitalia for 1st class IC 583. I am sure these are compartments with 51 and 52 at corridor end. Open salon cars always have the corridor between the seats not at the side.
Can you put luggage in between 51 and 52? Not meant to be placed, but Italians and tourists do it. Just be considerate in putting at side, so if others need to occupy the compartment, they can get through. People with huge luggage even put them in the corridor. The Italian ticket inspectors are used to this and as long as there is a way to get round, sometimes leaping over them, they leave you alone. If the train is not full and your compartment is full but not other ones, Italians would simply occupy another compartment until the rightful seat owner shows up.
The 24" "might" fit on over head rack. The overhead rack in compartments are quite wide, but I have not tried anything larger than a 22".
Sep 2nd, 2017, 06:13 PM
#53
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"You can look up the train on Trenitalia and click the I for Information to see the stops."
Holly, I've looked and looked and I can't seem to find this. Can you provide a link to the right page?
greg,
Well, I don't know what business you're in but if you're not a professional sleuth, you really should be! I have no idea how you found all that out from the pitiful bit of information I was able to provide. The important thing for me is that I don't have to change trains, so thanks for that.
I've dummy booked the same tickets that I actually bought and this is the diagram given:
https://app.italiarail.com/itinerary for AM22L (scroll down for the seating chart. I hope you can open the link even though I'm 'removing' the tickets now.
It doesn't look like any of the others for that come up when I google that train number. Also, when I try to follow your instructions, it won't let me in at Coach 2. It starts at Coach 3 which also looks different than my chart.
Anyway, now it's just become a matter of curiosity but I do appreciate everyone's help. Just the fact that I know I don't have to change trains is a huge relief to me!
Holly, I've looked and looked and I can't seem to find this. Can you provide a link to the right page?
greg,
Well, I don't know what business you're in but if you're not a professional sleuth, you really should be! I have no idea how you found all that out from the pitiful bit of information I was able to provide. The important thing for me is that I don't have to change trains, so thanks for that.
I've dummy booked the same tickets that I actually bought and this is the diagram given:
https://app.italiarail.com/itinerary for AM22L (scroll down for the seating chart. I hope you can open the link even though I'm 'removing' the tickets now.
It doesn't look like any of the others for that come up when I google that train number. Also, when I try to follow your instructions, it won't let me in at Coach 2. It starts at Coach 3 which also looks different than my chart.
Anyway, now it's just become a matter of curiosity but I do appreciate everyone's help. Just the fact that I know I don't have to change trains is a huge relief to me!
Sep 2nd, 2017, 06:22 PM
#55
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I've just thought of something. Maybe you can see the chart if you dummy book. The ticket details are these:
Italrail
2 tickets
Bologna Centrale to Arezzo, direct
9:18 a.m. on October 7
1st class
If you get as far as booking the tickets (before paying) somewhere near the bottom of the page it will say something about choosing seats. If you click that, your seat numbers will come up along with those little moving dots. When the dots are finished, the chart will be available. Once you see the chart (and hopefully it's the same one I'm seeing), you can 'remove' the booking.
Let me know what happens!
Italrail
2 tickets
Bologna Centrale to Arezzo, direct
9:18 a.m. on October 7
1st class
If you get as far as booking the tickets (before paying) somewhere near the bottom of the page it will say something about choosing seats. If you click that, your seat numbers will come up along with those little moving dots. When the dots are finished, the chart will be available. Once you see the chart (and hopefully it's the same one I'm seeing), you can 'remove' the booking.
Let me know what happens!
Sep 3rd, 2017, 04:52 AM
#56
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Greg has already answered your question re the ticket being direct to Arezzo. But if you want to see for yourself, the "I" mentioned above is the little round "i" (lower case i) in the gray circle immediately to the right of, and in the same box as, the Intercity 583 on the row for the 9:18 train.
Sep 3rd, 2017, 04:57 AM
#57
>>> The ticket says ItaliaRail "powered by Trenitalia". It says "Train: Intercity 583" (it's coach 2, seats 51 & 52, if that helps).<<<
What you have done is bought your ticket from a reseller called Italiarail, not directly from the Italian train company which is Trenitalia. If you go on Trenitalia's website, enter your cities, you can find your train. By the number you gave it is an IC train which is technically included with the fast trains (seats mandatory), but isn't a fast train like the Frecce trains which have amenities (the IC trains don't have snack or dining cars, etc.). In the list of train selection, the trains will say what they are - Freccia, Regional, Intercity (IC).
Once you find you train on Trenitalia's website (forget about Italiarail!), you can look at things on the list to see. When you see your train listed, you can click the i next to the train number and the list of stops/times will pop up (good to know the stop before you want to get off and how much time to your stop). Once you select your train, then select price/class and at the bottom select choose your seat, then continue. The car diagram will pop up so you could select a seat. The 583 shows as an old IC train with compartments. This means you get zero extra room in 1st class than from 2nd class. Both classes are compartments that hold 6 people (3 facing 3) with your knees practically touching. I don't see any value of 1st over 2nd in this type of IC train. Perhaps they bring you a free water or soft drink and not 2nd class.
If you select the 585 train instead and look at seating you will see it's not compartment style at all. There's a row of single seats on one side of the aisle with some facing each others with tables (denoted by oblong gray bar) and double rows across the aisle. These are the old Trenitalia ES trains (used to be Trenitalia's fastest trains before they got the Frecce trains). 1st class in these IC trains is similar to 1st class in the Frecce trains - more room, snack cars, some have dining cars, tables, etc.
http://www.trenitalia.com/tcom-en
What you have done is bought your ticket from a reseller called Italiarail, not directly from the Italian train company which is Trenitalia. If you go on Trenitalia's website, enter your cities, you can find your train. By the number you gave it is an IC train which is technically included with the fast trains (seats mandatory), but isn't a fast train like the Frecce trains which have amenities (the IC trains don't have snack or dining cars, etc.). In the list of train selection, the trains will say what they are - Freccia, Regional, Intercity (IC).
Once you find you train on Trenitalia's website (forget about Italiarail!), you can look at things on the list to see. When you see your train listed, you can click the i next to the train number and the list of stops/times will pop up (good to know the stop before you want to get off and how much time to your stop). Once you select your train, then select price/class and at the bottom select choose your seat, then continue. The car diagram will pop up so you could select a seat. The 583 shows as an old IC train with compartments. This means you get zero extra room in 1st class than from 2nd class. Both classes are compartments that hold 6 people (3 facing 3) with your knees practically touching. I don't see any value of 1st over 2nd in this type of IC train. Perhaps they bring you a free water or soft drink and not 2nd class.
If you select the 585 train instead and look at seating you will see it's not compartment style at all. There's a row of single seats on one side of the aisle with some facing each others with tables (denoted by oblong gray bar) and double rows across the aisle. These are the old Trenitalia ES trains (used to be Trenitalia's fastest trains before they got the Frecce trains). 1st class in these IC trains is similar to 1st class in the Frecce trains - more room, snack cars, some have dining cars, tables, etc.
http://www.trenitalia.com/tcom-en
Sep 3rd, 2017, 05:29 AM
#58
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Hi kyb,
Thanks for doing all this for me. When I follow your instructions, I see exactly the same diagram as I saw when I booked the tickets but now I understand that I was reading the diagram wrong. What looked to me like two aisles is really just three seats abreast with one aisle at the side.
I really didn't choose 1st class for any free soft drinks or water. As I've said, it's only a 2-hour trip -- actually not even that so the amenities aren't as important as they might be for a longer trip. I purchased first class just because it was the same price as 2nd. Some sort of 'special'.
Knowing the stops between Bologna and Arezzo is great -- thanks so much for that! As far as the luggage is concerned, I guess we'll have to manage it. Maybe, with luck, there will be empty seats in our row or nearby. If not, we'll figure it out when we get there.
Many thanks again!
Thanks for doing all this for me. When I follow your instructions, I see exactly the same diagram as I saw when I booked the tickets but now I understand that I was reading the diagram wrong. What looked to me like two aisles is really just three seats abreast with one aisle at the side.
I really didn't choose 1st class for any free soft drinks or water. As I've said, it's only a 2-hour trip -- actually not even that so the amenities aren't as important as they might be for a longer trip. I purchased first class just because it was the same price as 2nd. Some sort of 'special'.
Knowing the stops between Bologna and Arezzo is great -- thanks so much for that! As far as the luggage is concerned, I guess we'll have to manage it. Maybe, with luck, there will be empty seats in our row or nearby. If not, we'll figure it out when we get there.
Many thanks again!
Sep 3rd, 2017, 05:37 AM
#59
>>>Also, when I try to follow your instructions, it won't let me in at Coach 2. It starts at Coach 3 which also looks different than my chart.<<<
If that happens on the actual Trenitalia site, could be you are selecting 2nd class, not 1st or it simply means that car is already full, but coach 3 is typically 2nd class on most Italian trains. Usually only car 1 and 2 are 1st. I gave you Trenitalia's link in English. You should not have any problem navigating it.
There are some newer IC trains with divided aisles, but they seem more bus-like to me than the ES trains that have been switched to IC service.
If that happens on the actual Trenitalia site, could be you are selecting 2nd class, not 1st or it simply means that car is already full, but coach 3 is typically 2nd class on most Italian trains. Usually only car 1 and 2 are 1st. I gave you Trenitalia's link in English. You should not have any problem navigating it.
There are some newer IC trains with divided aisles, but they seem more bus-like to me than the ES trains that have been switched to IC service.
